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BFT 140 - Discussion of Moldy Fig Stomp


jeffcrom

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In media res: can I start by saying that #2 irritates me no end?

That sounds like a National guitar (joke's on me if it's simply a banjo, but I doubt it) and some jerk who has the most beautiful low register clarinet tone this side of Ricardo Morales. No, seriously, who plays jazz like that? Jerk. It's lovely, but I don't know what it is. The snare doesn't work for me. I could just listen to the clarinet for hours, especially in that low register. The higher s/he goes the more s/he pinches off the sound, sadly. Anyway: I have no idea. It's pretty, and that's all I got.

 

I figured out #1, but not in a very honest manner. I picked a likely interval of years (1924-1926, turns out I guessed on the early side), and listened to likely things of the correct length in my iTunes library till I hit upon it. I don't feel I deserve credit for this one, especially given that I don't think I'd ever listened to it before. Oops. Sometimes CD's just get lost in the shuffle (hahaha...ah...sorry), especially compilation ones like the one I have this on. Anyway, I'm going to listen to the only other three tracks this band recorded now. Thank you for introducing me to a very enjoyable recording I already owned. :) 

Did you partly pick it because of the walkin'-blues-esque lyric, or am I over thinking things now?

 

#3 is a Waller & Razaf composition, "Zonky". That's Ed Cuffee taking the trombone solo. Dunno who takes the trumpet one. Is that Don Redman at the end? 1930, McKinney's Cotton Pickers. What a fun record! Razaf's lyric is silly and fun: "I'll bet a dime, guess a doughnut"! I really want to see the ridiculous novelty dance that went with this song.

 

#4 Thoughts as this played: "Oh, damn, one of those tunes I know but can never think of the name of. New Orleans old timer on trumpet. Well, that's pretty obviously George Lewis on clarinet. That's Jim Robinson on trombone (admittedly a safe bet once you have GL on clarinet). Oh, right "Bogalusa Strut". Who on earth is that trumpet player? Kid Thomas, maybe? Wait. That's totally right. Don't I have this?" At this point I listened to the one Kid Thomas recording of "Bogalusa Strut" that I have (on "Kid Howard's Olympia Band & Sam Morgan Revisited" from 1962). It's not that one, but it's definitely Thomas some time in the same decade.

 

I felt so accomplished at this point that I didn't even listen to the other two tracks yet. Loved the selections so far.

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1 hour ago, lipi said:

In media res: can I start by saying that #2 irritates me no end?

That sounds like a National guitar (joke's on me if it's simply a banjo, but I doubt it) and some jerk who has the most beautiful low register clarinet tone this side of Ricardo Morales. No, seriously, who plays jazz like that? Jerk. It's lovely, but I don't know what it is. The snare doesn't work for me. I could just listen to the clarinet for hours, especially in that low register. The higher s/he goes the more s/he pinches off the sound, sadly. Anyway: I have no idea. It's pretty, and that's all I got.

BFT presenters should have thick skins, since (of course) not all listeners will like all the selections as much as do the presenters. But the clarinetist here is one of my favorite living New Orleans musicians. I love his upper register sound, and I like the rest of the band as well. So there will consequences for your unkind words, Lipi - when we get together for a drink, you have to buy the first round. :)

And that is a banjo.

I figured out #1, but not in a very honest manner. I picked a likely interval of years (1924-1926, turns out I guessed on the early side), and listened to likely things of the correct length in my iTunes library till I hit upon it. I don't feel I deserve credit for this one, especially given that I don't think I'd ever listened to it before. Oops. Sometimes CD's just get lost in the shuffle (hahaha...ah...sorry), especially compilation ones like the one I have this on. Anyway, I'm going to listen to the only other three tracks this band recorded now. Thank you for introducing me to a very enjoyable recording I already owned. :) 

Did you partly pick it because of the walkin'-blues-esque lyric, or am I over thinking things now?

Feel free to reveal what this is, no matter how you figured it out. Or not - everyone plays their own way. I didn't pick it for the vocal or the lyrics, but because it's great little early mid-size band track, and because it has a connection with another track in the Moldy Fig section.

#3 is a Waller & Razaf composition, "Zonky". That's Ed Cuffee taking the trombone solo. Dunno who takes the trumpet one. Is that Don Redman at the end? 1930, McKinney's Cotton Pickers. What a fun record! Razaf's lyric is silly and fun: "I'll bet a dime, guess a doughnut"! I really want to see the ridiculous novelty dance that went with this song.

Bingo! Love the Cotton Pickers.

#4 Thoughts as this played: "Oh, damn, one of those tunes I know but can never think of the name of. New Orleans old timer on trumpet. Well, that's pretty obviously George Lewis on clarinet. That's Jim Robinson on trombone (admittedly a safe bet once you have GL on clarinet). Oh, right "Bogalusa Strut". Who on earth is that trumpet player? Kid Thomas, maybe? Wait. That's totally right. Don't I have this?" At this point I listened to the one Kid Thomas recording of "Bogalusa Strut" that I have (on "Kid Howard's Olympia Band & Sam Morgan Revisited" from 1962). It's not that one, but it's definitely Thomas some time in the same decade.

You're getting close. "Bogalusa Strut," yes. George Lewis, yes. Big Jim, yes. Kid Thomas, no. I included this because I was struck with a certain musical aspect that I'm curious as to whether anyone else will notice.

I felt so accomplished at this point that I didn't even listen to the other two tracks yet. Loved the selections so far.

Nice work so far! Looking forward to your other comments.

 

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As an overall comment, 22 tracks are for me a normally little overwhelming but dividing them up into 4 sections seems easier to manage.

Only one quick listen but two tracks really jumped out at me.  One is track 2 in this section.   Great sounding clarinet, I love the piano solo and piano in general, nice tune.  So, tell me that there is a whole album out there by this group and that it isn't hopelessly OOP.

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, NIS said:

As an overall comment, 22 tracks are for me a normally little overwhelming but dividing them up into 4 sections seems easier to manage.

It's a lot of tracks, but most of them are around three minutes, and a couple don't run longer than two minutes. When I was blindfold test manager, I advocated for a one-CD-length limit to BFT length. I've gone past that here, but not by much - and I figured that a lot of people wouldn't participate in all four sections.

Only one quick listen but two tracks really jumped out at me.  One is track 2 in this section.   Great sounding clarinet, I love the piano solo and piano in general, nice tune.  So, tell me that there is a whole album out there by this group and that it isn't hopelessly OOP.

The album is in print, but you might need to know where to look for it - and I'll make sure you know at the end of the month. It's a very fine album indeed, although there are some personnel changes from track to track.

 

 

 

 

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Part of my reason for partaking in this BFT was to get some exposure to some knowledgeably selected music of this era. I know absolutely nothing about these early years (except for the soundtrack to Boardwalk Empire :)) so I'll not be ID'ing anyone just listening

Track 2 is exactly the type of music I was hoping to hear. I love the clarinet playing on this so will be paying attention to the reveal

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1 hour ago, mjazzg said:

Part of my reason for partaking in this BFT was to get some exposure to some knowledgeably selected music of this era. I know absolutely nothing about these early years (except for the soundtrack to Boardwalk Empire :)) so I'll not be ID'ing anyone just listening

Track 2 is exactly the type of music I was hoping to hear. I love the clarinet playing on this so will be paying attention to the reveal

If you didn't participate in alex's BFT #130, you should go back and read the threads and check out the music. It was almost a "greatest hits" of early jazz.

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I like the way you set these up.  Even though I'll make a fool of myself, I'm going to participate in all four.  I got nada on this one as far as guesses.  Musicianship was impressive throughout, though the odd numbered (older) tracks resonated more.

Track 1 - Neat and enjoyable.  No idea who or what.  This is the sort of thing of this era that my ears warm to quickly.
 
Track 2 - I’m less interested in the “remake” stuff of this era.  There is certainly nothing musically at issue here, I just feel about it the way I feel about modern players playing bebop.  It had it’s time and place, but this is tribute rather than creation.  As tribute goes, I quite enjoy this, though it tends to drag on.
 
Track 3 - This one resonates more with me.  Has that spark, whatever I mean by that.  No idea who or what.
 
Track 4 - Again, it’s good music, but I’m not getting that natural feeling that tracks 1 and 3 gave me.  
 
Track 5 - Another fun one.  The way everything sort of moves around everything else.  The modern musician is probably more capable, but maybe it’s that slight chance of not executing that gives this music its beef.  
 
Track 6 - And this one passes me by.  Musicianship is there, but doesn’t seem to have the bite of the odd numbered tracks.  Clarinetist is certainly in the moment, but I’m not hip to the rhythm section.
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Thanks for listening to the old stuff; glad you enjoyed some of it. I'm actually with you on track 6 - I don't care for the rhythm section very much. The clarinetist makes it happen, though.

And I know what you mean with your comments about track 2. It's a tricky thing - younger musicians playing older styles is fine with me if they have their own voices and can make the music live. And this (middle-aged) clarinetist comes by his style naturally, and has his own voice, in my opinion. I remember a Lester Bowie blindfold test from the 1980s that struck me - his reaction to a beboppish track was something like: "5 stars if it's an old recording; 1 star if it's young guys." That struck me as kind of absurd. But it's a tricky thing....

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Yeah, I agree that's odd phrasing.  Though, musicians have to be careful how flat the state things in that setting.  I recall Bill Evans (saxophonist) ripping that Bill Evans/Harold Land album Quintessence.  He back-pedaled hard after the reveal, but he NAILED precisely what was wrong with that album.  (Incidentally, I don't care for saxophonist Bill Evans.)

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Won't look at previous comments until I post this, and once again I didn't recognize anything. (What else is new?)

1 - Liked the clarinet and the strong playing by the trumpeter. I'll pass on the vocalist and the band vocal - of that period, so I'll let it go.

2 - Loved the clarinet. Great full toned lower register playing and just a beautiful tone in general.

3 - I was most impressed by the way the rhythm section kept things moving and jumping.

4 - New Orleans sounding. A great band - no one stands out and that's a big part of what makes it a great band. Wonderful feel on this one.

5 - Another N.O. sounding band. The clarinetist and trumpeter are fine musicians. The piano solo changed the feel of things.

6 - More New Orleans? The clarinetist was impressive in the way he could keep up the intensity, but it was a bit too manic for me.

Thanks for more good music, Jeff.

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53 minutes ago, paul secor said:

Won't look at previous comments until I post this, and once again I didn't recognize anything. (What else is new?)

1 - Liked the clarinet and the strong playing by the trumpeter. I'll pass on the vocalist and the band vocal - of that period, so I'll let it go.

I've always said regarding early jazz that fleas come with the dog. Those "fleas" are often vocals, although this one doesn't bother me.

2 - Loved the clarinet. Great full toned lower register playing and just a beautiful tone in general.

Yes, one of my favorite living New Orleans clarinetists. Which is a hint, I guess, since it narrows things down.

3 - I was most impressed by the way the rhythm section kept things moving and jumping.

Fans of early big bands often distinguish between guitar/bass and banjo/tuba rhythm sections. Among their other virtues, McKinney's Cotton Pickers had the best banjo/tuba rhythm section ever.

4 - New Orleans sounding. A great band - no one stands out and that's a big part of what makes it a great band. Wonderful feel on this one.

"No one stands out" is one of the reasons I love this recording. I'll elaborate more later.

5 - Another N.O. sounding band. The clarinetist and trumpeter are fine musicians. The piano solo changed the feel of things.

Not Louisianans, actually. I'll say where there from in a few days, probably. No one has mentioned the alto saxophonist, who was a major reason for including this track - but you may have been hearing the alto as a clarinet; the guy had an unusual sound and style. Or you may have indeed meant the clarinetist - there's one on board - but the chorus-long reed solo is by the saxophonist.

6 - More New Orleans? The clarinetist was impressive in the way he could keep up the intensity, but it was a bit too manic for me.

Included for the clarinetist (a New Orleanian, for sure), not for the needlessly archaic rhythm section.

Thanks for more good music, Jeff.

Thanks for listening.

 

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Time to tackle the last two.

#5 "The World Is Waiting for the Sunrise." Bowed bass intro, nice. Late 30's, probably. That's a beautiful trumpet tone. Reminds me of Bix or Bunny Berigan--maybe it's Bunny? An alto that sounds a little more modern than the rest of this bunch. Hmm. I don't know who this is, but I enjoy it. I don't think it's Bunny anymore. I don't know. One of the Condon gang, maybe--Wild Bill? Just guessing now.

#6 Soprano...? Or maybe a clarinet. Man. I don't know. That's embarrassing! It's totally a clarinet. Wow. Who the hell is it, though? It sounds like someone who is struggling a little. Maybe an old-timer past his prime? Or some new saxophone kid who picked up the clarinet on a lark? I don't think it's bad, it just sounds "different". Or it's Pee Wee. What the hell do I know--he sounds like a lunatic half the time. Well, I don't know who it is, but I'm going to say it was recorded in the 60's, and the clarinetist is a dude(tte) who played in New Orleans or Chicago in the 20's. "I did my best that time"?

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1 hour ago, lipi said:

Time to tackle the last two.

#5 "The World Is Waiting for the Sunrise." Bowed bass intro, nice. Late 30's, probably. That's a beautiful trumpet tone. Reminds me of Bix or Bunny Berigan--maybe it's Bunny? An alto that sounds a little more modern than the rest of this bunch. Hmm. I don't know who this is, but I enjoy it. I don't think it's Bunny anymore. I don't know. One of the Condon gang, maybe--Wild Bill? Just guessing now.

Late 30s, indeed. Not Bunny or Wild Bill Davison or a Condonite. There's a reason he sounds a little like Bix - knowing you, that might be enough of a clue for you to figure out who it is. An unusual alto player, indeed.

#6 Soprano...? Or maybe a clarinet. Man. I don't know. That's embarrassing! It's totally a clarinet. Wow. Who the hell is it, though? It sounds like someone who is struggling a little. Maybe an old-timer past his prime? Or some new saxophone kid who picked up the clarinet on a lark? I don't think it's bad, it just sounds "different". Or it's Pee Wee. What the hell do I know--he sounds like a lunatic half the time. Well, I don't know who it is, but I'm going to say it was recorded in the 60's, and the clarinetist is a dude(tte) who played in New Orleans or Chicago in the 20's. "I did my best that time"?

The clarinet player indeed had a long career; he was in this seventies when this was recorded, but continued to play for another 20 years. His sound was very odd and individual. And since the month is two-thirds over, I'll reveal that he's on another track in this section of the BFT.

 

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Ooh, ooh, pick me, teach! I have an idea for #5's cornet man now. Though your saying he's not a Condonite kinda confuses me...so maybe I'm wrong? Is it Jimmy McPartland? It absolutely fits the Bix clue, and it TOTALLY sounds like him now that I thought to think of him, but I would (perhaps naively?) call him a bit of a Condonite. It MUST be him. Still no idea on the alto player, I'm afraid, nor anyone else in the band. :/  Hmm. O.K., major cheating ahead!

I have one track with McPartland from 1939 on Allen's excellent "That Devilin' Tune", "Sugar" with Bud Jacobson (cl), Boyce Brown (as), Floyd Bean (p), Dick McPartland (g), Jim Lannigan (b), and Hank Isaacs (d). Some poking in a discography shows they recorded a "The World Is Waiting for the Sunrise" that same day. My guess is that this is it. Yes?

 

#6 I decided to just go down the list, after your hint. So who plays clarinet on the other tracks? Bud Jacobson, about whom I know nothing; George Lewis, who did play forever, but whom I hope I'd recognize (and he didn't live to be ninety, anyway); I don't know who was playing the clarinet on the McKinney's track--could be any of the three reeds; Willie Humphrey, who did live past ninety...and shoot. That's totally him. It's Humphrey. I put on that "New Orleans Traditional Jazz Legends" thing with sessions from 1974 and 1983 and it's obvious now.

These were fun. Totally my kinda things (yes, I even enjoyed number 2 that I jokingly complained about).

I suppose I can dig into #2 a little more and think about living New Orleans clarinetists it could be.

 

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Yeah, I guess my statement that McPartland wasn't a Condonite was not really accurate - I was thinking of the Church of Latter-Day Condonites, and kind of forgot about one of the most important recording sessions of the 1920's, didn't I? You're right about the track, of course.

And yes, Willie Humphrey, whose playing got quirkier, but remained creative to the end, is playing "China Boy," 1974.

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I really like those 1927 sides with Teschemacher. :) And, you know, I was actually thinking more of a bunch of tracks McPartland recorded in the 50's that are on the Condon Columbia Mob Sessions Mosaic set. Condon actually only played on a few of those, though--I did not remember that.

 

Anyway, I'm going to take a guess at the clarinetist in #2, and I'm using some arcane meta-knowledge to do so. That is, I'm using something I remember Jeff mentioning on this board years ago, rather than any actual musical knowledge I might have... So. Is it Evan Christopher, by any chance?

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6 hours ago, lipi said:

I really like those 1927 sides with Teschemacher. :) And, you know, I was actually thinking more of a bunch of tracks McPartland recorded in the 50's that are on the Condon Columbia Mob Sessions Mosaic set. Condon actually only played on a few of those, though--I did not remember that.

 

Anyway, I'm going to take a guess at the clarinetist in #2, and I'm using some arcane meta-knowledge to do so. That is, I'm using something I remember Jeff mentioning on this board years ago, rather than any actual musical knowledge I might have... So. Is it Evan Christopher, by any chance?

You know, I don't really know Condon's 50s stuff that well; didn't know McPartland was part of that circle.

No, that's not Evan Christopher.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Computer problems have left The Magnificent Goldberg unable to post here, so he has emailed me his comments so that I can post them. Since I'm revealing the answers in a few hours, I'll let that serve as my reply.

1 Don’t know this but I’m going to guess Bennie Moten. After the very classic vocal chorus, I’m a LOT less sure. If it ain’t Moten, maybe it’s Erskine Tate’s Vendome Orchestra.

2 Booful! Don’t CARE who it is, even if it’s Benny Effin’ Goodman! But I think it’s the guy who played with EVERYBODY but never made a name for himself. His name… (frantically digs out John Kirby CD) … was Buster Bailey. I love the tune, too. It’s nearly something else, but isn’t.

3 Oh so really nice! Oh, I know that voice! It’s a guy who worked a lot with Red Allen… (frantically digs out Red Allen CD)… Billy Banks. Maybe this is Red Allen. I’ll give it another go and see if I can get closer. Thinking about it while having a cough and a drag outside just now, I concluded it ain’t Red, which doesn’t mean it’s not Banks, who sang with lots of people. Well, we’ll see tomorrow. For the moment, on to 4.

4 By its length, something from the LP era, obviously, but pretty New Orleans. Why do I think it’s the De Paris brothers? Really nicer than I thought they were from the only LP I ever had of them (which was with Spoon).

5 Lord, another booful one! ‘The world is waiting for the sunshine’, but I think it has another title when NO jazzmen do it. Just right for a totally wet November, though. Sounds a bit hifi for an old 78. And the clarinet honk! Well, that really got me.

6 Could this be Sidney Bechet? There’s that lovely broad sound that went straight into Earl Bostic’s alto and came out like a cement mixer
.

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