BFT 140 - Discussion of Rara Avis

[jeffcrom]

Talk about it here.

[mjazzg]

The flute on track 2 is fantastic. No idea who's playing it. Nice bass playing too. I need to hear more from the album that holds this track which makes it a shame it's in the 'rare' category

track 5 is gorgeous and I feel I've heard it before somewhere but can't grasp where just yet

[jeffcrom]

1 hour ago, mjazzg said:

The flute on track 2 is fantastic. No idea who's playing it. Nice bass playing too. I need to hear more from the album that holds this track which makes it a shame it's in the 'rare' category

Well, it's even rarer than that. This session resulted in a very fine album, but this track wasn't included. I'll reveal that it's from a 45 RPM single.

track 5 is gorgeous and I feel I've heard it before somewhere but can't grasp where just yet

Chances are slim that you have heard this track, but chances are good that you have heard something similar from one of these musicians.

 

[mjazzg]

5 minutes ago, jeffcrom said:

 

45 RPM single...just my luck!

[felser]

1 - Classic 50's sounding big band stuff.  Was it recorded a little later, maybe in the 60's?  Whenever, sounds great in 2015.

2 - Delightful, sort of Jeremy Steig-ish.  Looking forward to the reveal on this one.

3 - I kept waiting for Cissy Houston and the girls to enter in.  "Sweet Inspiration", not sure who it's by.  King Curtis/Willie Mitchell hybrid, but it's not Curtis.  Not something I would actively return to.

4 - Nothing wrong with it at all, but just background music to my ears.

5/6 - Stomp those moldy figs!

[jeffcrom]

42 minutes ago, felser said:

1 - Classic 50's sounding big band stuff.  Was it recorded a little later, maybe in the 60's?  Whenever, sounds great in 2015.

It's from the 1950s. Yeah, I like this a lot. It's an almost totally unknown band/recording, although there are a couple of biggish names on board.

2 - Delightful, sort of Jeremy Steig-ish.  Looking forward to the reveal on this one.

You might want to go out on a limb and make a definite ID.

3 - I kept waiting for Cissy Houston and the girls to enter in.  "Sweet Inspiration", not sure who it's by.  King Curtis/Willie Mitchell hybrid, but it's not Curtis.  Not something I would actively return to.

Not Curtis, as you figured out. This is not a "great" record by any means, but its a fun (and surprising) one. And again, almost completely unknown.

4 - Nothing wrong with it at all, but just background music to my ears.

Well, it's certainly pretty relaxed.

5/6 - Stomp those moldy figs!

I knew that #6 would not be to everyone's taste. I would suggest that, whatever your tastes, there is a magical eight-measure passage in #5 that's worthy of closer attension.

 

[felser]

1 hour ago, jeffcrom said:

 

The detective in me says that cut #2 must be this:  cut 2 ID  Sure wish it had been included on the excellent CD reissue of this!  source album

[jeffcrom]

1 hour ago, felser said:

The detective in me says that cut #2 must be this:  cut 2 ID  Sure wish it had been included on the excellent CD reissue of this!  source album

Got it - "Dark as a Dungeon" (yes, the old Merle Travis song), by Jeremy Steig - from the Flute Fever sessions, but not included on the LP or the CD reissue. It was issued only on a 45 RPM single.

[paul secor]

Again, haven't looked at previous comments.

1 -  A blaring big band. A musician friend of mine once commented that it's more fun to play in a big band than to listen to one - I know for sure that there are exceptions to that for him. I passed this comment on to Jeff once and he doesn't agree. I didn't enjoy listening to this cut and, if I were a musician, I'm sure I wouldn't enjoy playing this.

2- Sounds like a flautist with a somewhat unusual sound but very few ideas. My impression of the piano is similar - very few ideas. The flautist (that sounds so pretentious) sounds familiar, but I can't think of who it might be.

3 - A funk band - not my thing at all, but these guys sound like good musicians who could play this in their sleep. Didn't sound like they put much into it, other than professionalism. But, as I say, it's not my thing.

4 - Is the trumpeter someone who doesn't normally play trumpet? Or an older musician who was having health/age problems?

5 - I'm assuming the vocalist isn't the reason for this track's inclusion. Sounds like a crooner from a Marx Brothers film who was there to give the bros. a bit of a respite. Beautiful guitar solo - though much too short. I enjoyed the trumpet accompaniment when I was able to tune out the vocalist.

6 - A N.O. brass band - again not my thing. Music that would be enjoyed in a crowded bar with a buzz on. On record, it just doesn't come through for me.

Jeff - thanks for the music and all of the work you put into this. Apologies for some of the negative comments. I guess I'm the sort who either likes certain music or doesn't. I'm not much of an in between guy.

[jeffcrom]

2 hours ago, paul secor said:

Again, haven't looked at previous comments.

1 -  A blaring big band. A musician friend of mine once commented that it's more fun to play in a big band than to listen to one - I know for sure that there are exceptions to that for him. I passed this comment on to Jeff once and he doesn't agree. I didn't enjoy listening to this cut and, if I were a musician, I'm sure I wouldn't enjoy playing this.

Oh, this would be a blast to play. I find it exciting rather than blaring, except for maybe the beginning of the trumpet solo.

2- Sounds like a flautist with a somewhat unusual sound but very few ideas. My impression of the piano is similar - very few ideas. The flautist (that sounds so pretentious) sounds familiar, but I can't think of who it might be.

ID'ed by now. Interesting comments - not sure I agree, but can certainly see how you could say that.

3 - A funk band - not my thing at all, but these guys sound like good musicians who could play this in their sleep. Didn't sound like they put much into it, other than professionalism. But, as I say, it's not my thing.

Again, chosen for the surprise factor rather than strictly for musical quality, although I enjoy this record.

4 - Is the trumpeter someone who doesn't normally play trumpet? Or an older musician who was having health/age problems?

No - a real trumpet player, with an individual sound. I don't know how active he was during the period when this was made, but he lived another 16 years; he was in his fifties here.

5 - I'm assuming the vocalist isn't the reason for this track's inclusion. Sounds like a crooner from a Marx Brothers film who was there to give the bros. a bit of a respite. Beautiful guitar solo - though much too short. I enjoyed the trumpet accompaniment when I was able to tune out the vocalist.

You're the first person to hone in on the guitarist, which is the reason for this track's inclusion. Guesses, anyone?

6 - A N.O. brass band - again not my thing. Music that would be enjoyed in a crowded bar with a buzz on. On record, it just doesn't come through for me.

Based on reactions from friends, the whole New Orleans brass band thing is something that you get or you don't. This music really gets under my skin, but it leaves some of my friends cold. This particular recording is pretty rare, kind of "important," and very raw.

Jeff - thanks for the music and all of the work you put into this. Apologies for some of the negative comments. I guess I'm the sort who either likes certain music or doesn't. I'm not much of an in between guy.

Nothing to apologize for. I'm glad everyone has different tastes. I mentioned my "fleas come with the dog" philosophy of early jazz, and maybe in my case that extends to all music. I have never minded putting up with two and a half minutes of ponderous Paul Whiteman music to hear twelve bars of Bix. Or in the case of this section, to put up with a forgettable (and now forgotten) pop singer to hear an eight-measure guitar solo like that on track 5.

 

[Spontooneous]

Wasn't until the second listen that Track 5 kicked in for me. The guitarist is Charlie Christian, and it's the session where he accompanied Eddy Howard. Rest of the band is Benny Morton, Edmond Hall, Teddy Wilson, Billy Taylor on bass, Yank Porter, Oct. 4, 1940.

It's kinda funny how many times Columbia Records miscast its pop singers as jazz singers. Think also of what Columbia did with Aretha, and that Johnny Mathis-Gil Evans session.

[jeffcrom]

6 hours ago, Spontooneous said:

Wasn't until the second listen that Track 5 kicked in for me. The guitarist is Charlie Christian, and it's the session where he accompanied Eddy Howard. Rest of the band is Benny Morton, Edmond Hall, Teddy Wilson, Billy Taylor on bass, Yank Porter, Oct. 4, 1940.

It's kinda funny how many times Columbia Records miscast its pop singers as jazz singers. Think also of what Columbia did with Aretha, and that Johnny Mathis-Gil Evans session.

Yes! This is probably Christian's least-known recorded solo. It's short, but really gorgeous, in my opinion. This track didn't make it to the "complete" Columbia Charlie Christian box; I transferred it from my copy of the 78 RPM record.. Christian plays the introduction to another tune from this session, but this is his only real solo.

[tkeith]

Track 1 - I like this instantly.  Mean to Me, if I’m not mistaken, in a decidedly different take.  Needle drop.  Don’t recognize the trumpet.  Like the arrangement.  As much as I enjoy music that stretches, there is certainly something to be said for the constricted format of the solos here.  Not a lot of wasted energy.  Really enjoying the tenor.  

 

Track 2 - In six, and I’m in, but then, you knew that.  Not earth-shattering, just driving, honest feel.  Could be Harold Alexander.  The multiphonics are a bit affected, but this still works.

 

Track 3 - Nothing wrong with it, but I don’t typically take to this honky-tonk style of saxophone (Maceo notwithstanding).  Reminds me a bit of some George Braith I have.  Song is familiar, but I don’t have the title.

 

Track 4 - Odd.  Trumpet seems to be an older style, but the rhythm section has that late 60s feel (playing that late 50s style).  

The whole recording seems a bit off (the recording, I think, more than the music).  No guess.

 

Track 5 - Stardust, though I can’t fathom by whom.

 

Track 6 - The moon does, in fact, look lonesome shining through the trees, but I’d rather it had a different soundtrack.  Goes on a bit, too.

 

[jeffcrom]

40 minutes ago, tkeith said:

Track 1 - I like this instantly.  Mean to Me, if I’m not mistaken, in a decidedly different take.  Needle drop.  Don’t recognize the trumpet.  Like the arrangement.  As much as I enjoy music that stretches, there is certainly something to be said for the constricted format of the solos here.  Not a lot of wasted energy.  Really enjoying the tenor.  

 

The tenor solo is a standout for me, too. It's a "medium name" (as opposed to "big name"), early in his career.

 

Track 2 - In six, and I’m in, but then, you knew that.  Not earth-shattering, just driving, honest feel.  Could be Harold Alexander.  The multiphonics are a bit affected, but this still works.

 

ID-ed above, as you probably know by now.

 

Track 3 - Nothing wrong with it, but I don’t typically take to this honky-tonk style of saxophone (Maceo notwithstanding).  Reminds me a bit of some George Braith I have.  Song is familiar, but I don’t have the title.

 

Nobody seems to like this very much. Throw me a bone, Magnificent Goldberg!

 

Track 4 - Odd.  Trumpet seems to be an older style, but the rhythm section has that late 60s feel (playing that late 50s style).  

The whole recording seems a bit off (the recording, I think, more than the music).  No guess.

 

Interesting comments, and kind of on track. This is a very little-known recording, for what it's worth.

 

Track 5 - Stardust, though I can’t fathom by whom.

 

See above.

 

Track 6 - The moon does, in fact, look lonesome shining through the trees, but I’d rather it had a different soundtrack.  Goes on a bit, too.

 

Good ear, but they use a different set of lyrics in New Orleans, where this was recorded. This also seems to be a track nobody much likes.

 

 

[Hot Ptah]

I absolutely love #1. It's "Mean to Me", correct?

 

It almost sounds like a revival of a great old band, like the Benny Goodman big band reunion sides of the 1950s, or a studio all-star band put together to record swing era favorites in the 1950s. Whatever the origins of the band, it is a rousing, infectious performance, with spirited solos. I am so glad that you shared this with us.

[jeffcrom]

6 hours ago, Hot Ptah said:

I absolutely love #1. It's "Mean to Me", correct?

 

It almost sounds like a revival of a great old band, like the Benny Goodman big band reunion sides of the 1950s, or a studio all-star band put together to record swing era favorites in the 1950s. Whatever the origins of the band, it is a rousing, infectious performance, with spirited solos. I am so glad that you shared this with us.

"Mean to Me" indeed. More like a couple-of-stars-and-a-bunch-of-unknowns band. I'm looking forward to telling the story of this band in the reveal.

[Spontooneous]

I'm absolutely in love with that tenor solo on "Mean to Me." I've seldom heard the lessons of Lester applied so well. The phrasing, to a beat of the soloist's own, could come from Warne Marsh. Though the tone doesn't sound like Warne's. Somebody like Richie Kamuca?

 

(BTW, Jeff -- Nice transfer of that Eddy Howard 78. Hoping to get my own transfer rig going soon.)

[jeffcrom]

20 minutes ago, Spontooneous said:

I'm absolutely in love with that tenor solo on "Mean to Me." I've seldom heard the lessons of Lester applied so well. The phrasing, to a beat of the soloist's own, could come from Warne Marsh. Though the tone doesn't sound like Warne's. Somebody like Richie Kamuca?

Not Warne or Kamuca. Nobody's going to guess this band, I don't think, but I'll give some hints on the tenor player, since it's so late in the month. It's a Hermanite, or a Hermanite-to-be, since he wasn't yet in the Herd. Richie Kamuca is not exactly a household name; this guy is probably slightly less known than Kamuca, though - while still not being hopelessly obscure. He also did some jazz education work later in his career - I used to have a book on improvisation that he wrote.

And I agree that it's a beautiful solo.

(BTW, Jeff -- Nice transfer of that Eddy Howard 78. Hoping to get my own transfer rig going soon.)

Thank you. I've got a nice turntable and cartridge for 78s, and (I hope) decent ears, so I usually do all right. I'll also reveal that "Mean to Me" is transferred from a 78.

 

[jeffcrom]

Computer problems have left The Magnificent Goldberg unable to post here, so he has emailed me his comments so that I can post them. Since I'm revealing the answers in a few hours, I'll let that serve as my reply.

1 ‘Mean to me’. Big band. Well, the start of the trumpet solo signalled Maynard Ferguson, but the rest was remarkably subdued, so it probably wasn’t him. Well, almost certainly, really.

2 Wonder what kind of flute the guy was playing at first? Well, I can tell you it ain’t Fathead. ‘Snot Herbie Mann, either. Something from the West Coast fifties, I’m reckoning. Oh, my computer says this is only 2:08, but here we are at 2:45 and it’s just finishing.

3 Organ band. Yeah, this is rare all right! Funny band; strange arrangement; strange tune; strange rhythm, like it’s trying to be a modern dance craze. I wouldn’t be surprised if it weren’t someone completely off the wall like Billy Vaughn. Here’s another that’s longer than the computer sez.

4 Oh, a jazz record. OK, I suppose, if you like that kind of thing :G
Hey! That one was SHORTER than the computer says! Duh? Need a cuppa. Back soon.

5 Lazy trombone, ‘Stardust’. Beautifully sung. The singer sounds English, by his accent, which is quite cultured Home Counties. There was an English singer who was fairly popular in the US during the war years (NOT Vera Lynn). I’ll look him up later. Enchanting!

6 Ho! Wonderfully rowdy New Orleans band! Shows how much we’re missing not collecting this staff. I keep meaning to, but the lure of Haiti and the Dominican Republic, not to mention Cuba, is too great at present. But there’s a sense in which this is really NOT very far from the musics of those islands. I do hope this one is as long as the nine minutes it says it is. Damn! Only 6:55!! Well, ‘tis pity this is rare, because I want it. You could listen to it all night and never want anything else.