Thoughts on the Chicago scene

[Larry Kart]

mjazzg

        

     Paul Giallorenzo's GitGo - Emergent [Leo Records}

Great fun. Mars Williams and Jeb Bishop almost guarantees so

Another of the seemingly endless line of contemporary Chicago bands that sound so modern whilst they pay respect to their forebears without sounding in the slightest hidebound by any tradition. What's in the water up there?

 

Larry Kart

         

 

14 hours ago, mjazzg said:

Paul Giallorenzo's GitGo - Emergent [Leo Records}

Great fun. Mars Williams and Jeb Bishop almost guarantees so

Another of the seemingly endless line of contemporary Chicago bands that sound so modern whilst they pay respect to their forebears without sounding in the slightest hidebound by any tradition. What's in the water up there?

Good question. As Chuck has pointed out several times, to some extent it goes back to Hal Russell, also to the AACM,, though along the lines you've mentioned the fertility/responsiveness/inventiveness of the generations that have arisen in the last 15 years here or more is special. In particular, I've been struck by how communicable/collegial this ethos is. Players, sometimes very experienced ones, have arrived from other places, at times with a fair amount of virtuosic chops/ baggage, and within short order their playing has become more or less compositional and not about how slick they are. Yes, "compositional" is a broad term, but I think it's the key principle on this scene -- as in "Let's make a piece.”

 

mjazzg

        

    

11 hours ago, Larry Kart said:

Good question. As Chuck has pointed out several times, to some extent it goes back to Hal Russell, also to the AACM,, though along the lines you've mentioned the fertility/responsiveness/inventiveness of the generations that have arisen in the last 15 years here or more is special. In particular, I've been struck by how communicable/collegial this ethos is. Players, sometimes very experienced ones, have arrived from other places, at times with a fair amount of virtuosic chops/ baggage, and within short order their playing has become more or less compositional and not about how slick they are. Yes, "compositional" is a broad term, but I think it's the key principle on this scene -- as in "Let's make a piece."

 

 

 

What strikes me from afar (and obviously from recordings only) is precisely that inter-generational and intra-generational willingness to collaborate. That's got to produce fertile ground indeed. There's an apparent preparedness to work at other musicians' work in a way that allows many different voices to the fore - this is what creates the number and variety of such great bands with crossover personnel. As you say, the heritage is in place to be tapped and it seemingly continues to be so to great effect. AACM, Russell absolutely and from my own listening lifetime I suspect Vandermark has been influential on the younger generation in a number of ways.

I could reel off any number of names that practically act as guarantee of thoughtful and exciting music. To live amongst the live scene that nurtures these projects must be very rewarding too.

"Let's make a piece" will be the title of the festival I curate in London of all these musicians - when my lottery numbers come in of course 

[AllenLowe]

sounds like my ideal, though sadly I will never be able to live there.

[jlhoots]

Force Majeure is good too (Delmark).

[uli]

16 hours ago, Larry Kart said:

 

listening to this right now. . very nice record indeed

what chuck and larry and mjazzg alredy,  sed. and it;s probaby not just in the water maybe in the pbs, old grand-dad you name

mjazzg

        

     Paul Giallorenzo's GitGo - Emergent [Leo Records}

Great fun. Mars Williams and Jeb Bishop almost guarantees so

Another of the seemingly endless line of contemporary Chicago bands that sound so modern whilst they pay respect to their forebears without sounding in the slightest hidebound by any tradition. What's in the water up there?

 

Larry Kart

         

 

14 hours ago, mjazzg said:

Paul Giallorenzo's GitGo - Emergent [Leo Records}

Great fun. Mars Williams and Jeb Bishop almost guarantees so

Another of the seemingly endless line of contemporary Chicago bands that sound so modern whilst they pay respect to their forebears without sounding in the slightest hidebound by any tradition. What's in the water up there?

Good question. As Chuck has pointed out several times, to some extent it goes back to Hal Russell, also to the AACM,, though along the lines you've mentioned the fertility/responsiveness/inventiveness of the generations that have arisen in the last 15 years here or more is special. In particular, I've been struck by how communicable/collegial this ethos is. Players, sometimes very experienced ones, have arrived from other places, at times with a fair amount of virtuosic chops/ baggage, and within short order their playing has become more or less compositional and not about how slick they are. Yes, "compositional" is a broad term, but I think it's the key principle on this scene -- as in "Let's make a piece.”

 

mjazzg

        

    

11 hours ago, Larry Kart said:

Good question. As Chuck has pointed out several times, to some extent it goes back to Hal Russell, also to the AACM,, though along the lines you've mentioned the fertility/responsiveness/inventiveness of the generations that have arisen in the last 15 years here or more is special. In particular, I've been struck by how communicable/collegial this ethos is. Players, sometimes very experienced ones, have arrived from other places, at times with a fair amount of virtuosic chops/ baggage, and within short order their playing has become more or less compositional and not about how slick they are. Yes, "compositional" is a broad term, but I think it's the key principle on this scene -- as in "Let's make a piece."

 

 

 

What strikes me from afar (and obviously from recordings only) is precisely that inter-generational and intra-generational willingness to collaborate. That's got to produce fertile ground indeed. There's an apparent preparedness to work at other musicians' work in a way that allows many different voices to the fore - this is what creates the number and variety of such great bands with crossover personnel. As you say, the heritage is in place to be tapped and it seemingly continues to be so to great effect. AACM, Russell absolutely and from my own listening lifetime I suspect Vandermark has been influential on the younger generation in a number of ways.

I could reel off any number of names that practically act as guarantee of thoughtful and exciting music. To live amongst the live scene that nurtures these projects must be very rewarding too.

"Let's make a piece" will be the title of the festival I curate in London of all these musicians - when my lottery numbers come in of course 

 

[Leeway]

Arguably, Ken Vandermark has had as large an influence as anyone on the contemporary Chicago scene. In fact, I date the renaissance of the contemporary Chicago scene to Vandermark's receipt of the MacArthur Fellowship, much of which became seed money for new groups and artists. In the Chicago family tree, Ken's part of the trunk. 

[Chuck Nessa]

A huge catalyst was Fred Anderson and the Velvet Lounge. The Velvet welcomed North sider, South sider and Euro improvisers. This combination plus Fred's encouragement of young players created an interesting brew that continues today.

[mjazzg]

Does the North and South sides have distinct musical identities or is it purely geographical?

[Chuck Nessa]

Distinct identities.

[mjazzg]

which are?

[uli]

1 hour ago, Chuck Nessa said:

A huge catalyst was Fred Anderson and the Velvet Lounge. The Velvet welcomed North sider, South sider and Euro improvisers. This combination plus Fred's encouragement of young players created an interesting brew that continues today.

yes, like many others, i heard Paul Giallorenzo the first time at a velvet jam session. Vonski's jam sessions as well.

[Chuck Nessa]

36 minutes ago, mjazzg said:

which are?

Social/racial.

[Leeway]

Anderson was undoubtedly an artistic influence on the Chicago scene (I posted something on this earlier today in another thread, and I completely agree with that premise), but due to social, racial, economic, and technological reasons, that influence was insufficient to tangibly explode the scene into prominence  Vandermark's MacArthur and his alliances with Euro free jazz players, were prime catalysts for opening up the Chicago scene and giving it impetus. In KV, the man, the moment, and the idea all came together in a creative Big Bang. 

[Chuck Nessa]

I was not speaking of Fred's artistic influence but the effect of the Velvet. Maybe the view was different from elsewhere.

[Larry Kart]

1 hour ago, Leeway said:

Anderson was undoubtedly an artistic influence on the Chicago scene (I posted something on this earlier today in another thread, and I completely agree with that premise), but due to social, racial, economic, and technological reasons, that influence was insufficient to tangibly explode the scene into prominence  Vandermark's MacArthur and his alliances with Euro free jazz players, were prime catalysts for opening up the Chicago scene and giving it impetus. In KV, the man, the moment, and the idea all came together in a creative Big Bang. 

Without doubt KV before and after his MacArthur gave the scene a good deal of impetus -- and leave us not forget the role played by the man behind KV, impresario John Corbett --  but (and I don't like to say this because KV seems to be a nice and obviously very generous guy), a good many of the talented younger players on the scene, many of whom have been part of KV's ensembles at various times over the years, have only lukewarm if that feelings about his actual musical gifts. They won't say this for public consumption for obvious reasons, but that's how they feel. I should add that I agree with them. 

[Chuck Nessa]

Ken, the money he generated and the way he spent it was very important, but the scene is/was much more complex than that.

I can't imagine the current trio of Ingebrigt Haaker Flaten, Avreeayl Ra and Nick Mazzarella without the Velvet decades earlier.

[uli]

Let's not forget Hamid Drake. I'd think that DKV was probably instrumental to put Vandermark on a bigger map; also  a strong bridge to Fred Anderson and the Velvet.

[jlhoots]

Josh Berman, Keefe Jackson, Aram Shelton, Jason Roebke, Dave Rempis, Mike Reed, Tomeka Reid, etc., etc.  All high on my list.

I don't know (or care) who says "bad things" re: Vandermark, but I really appreciate all he's done & played.

Resonance Ensemble, duets with Barry Guy, DKV + a lot else. Jealousy over the money (MacArthur)???

[Larry Kart]

3 minutes ago, jlhoots said:

Josh Berman, Keefe Jackson, Aram Shelton, Jason Roebke, Dave Rempis, Mike Reed, Tomeka Reid, etc., etc.  All high on my list.

I don't know (or care) who says "bad things" re: Vandermark, but I really appreciate all he's done & played.

Resonance Ensemble, duets with Barry Guy, DKV + a lot else. Jealousy over the money (MacArthur)???

I have no sense that jealousy is involved, just personal musical judgment. 

[Chuck Nessa]

Ken spread the money around. No problem there.

[Steve Reynolds]

I've of the mind that KV is a smart talented writer, arranger, musical mind who is a fine yet not exceptional improviser. I've felt this way for many years and I'm sure my feelings are not uncommon. I'm a huge fan of DKV as I feel his playing fits that trio very well. I'm also a strong believer in his large groups. I'm continually impressed and have become more intrigued in the Resonance Ensemble and recently I've spent some time with a couple of those Territory band records and have really been captivated by Company Switch. I'm also very impressed that he is open to electronics and musicians not normally associated with the traditional jazz/free jazz world. 

As far as The Velvet Lounge I'll write about my ideas later from an out of town perspective 

[mjazzg]

I don't really see the relevance of folks' judgements on KV's musical abilities on this discussion which is about organisational influences on a scene (whenever KV's mentioned there seem a necessity for questioning of his musical abilities). It seems commonly accepted that as a facilitator he's added greatly and generously to the propagation of important strands currently being heard.

If the Velvet Lounge was so important what has happened to sustain its influence since its closure? Is the cross-fertilisation across social/racial lines that Chuck mentions above still happening without a focus like the Velvet Lounge - from a very long way away it would seem to be. If so, is that a lasting legacy or are others (people and venues) now doing the work that Anderson and the VL did?

apologies for all the questions.....

[jcam_44]

To me the Chicago scene is hit or miss. Some stuff is fantastic, while others leave me underwhelmed. Case it point, I got Frank Roslay's Cicada Music recently and have no intentions of playing it again anytime soon. Same this with the Klang and Chicago Luzern Exchange CDs I got. On a side note I did just order Fred Anderson's book Exercises for the Creative Musician. Pretty stoked to check it out. 

[Larry Kart]

10 hours ago, mjazzg said:

I don't really see the relevance of folks' judgements on KV's musical abilities on this discussion which is about organisational influences on a scene (whenever KV's mentioned there seem a necessity for questioning of his musical abilities). It seems commonly accepted that as a facilitator he's added greatly and generously to the propagation of important strands currently being heard.

If the Velvet Lounge was so important what has happened to sustain its influence since its closure? Is the cross-fertilisation across social/racial lines that Chuck mentions above still happening without a focus like the Velvet Lounge - from a very long way away it would seem to be. If so, is that a lasting legacy or are others (people and venues) now doing the work that Anderson and the VL did?

apologies for all the questions.....

From what I can tell, "the cross-fertilisation across social/racial lines that Chuck mentions above still happening without a focus like the Velvet Lounge" (aptly put) is still happening, as is the mixing in of players from the continent. The Mazzarella-Flaten-Ra trio is one of many examples. Another key factor in this multiply fertile mix is drummer-leader-impresario-clubowner-idea man, and at times even a philanthropist Mike Reed. You name it, and Mike is probably in there, assiduously and shrewdly tilling the soil. In particular, the various tours that Reed-led bands have made to the continent over the years have laid the groundwork for others to do the same, and of course the musicians that they meet over there then tend to come over here when they can. A further point, is that all during the time the Chicago scene of this time has been happening, the city itself has been a place where by and large guys can find places to live, rehearsal spaces, a good many places to play where the musicians themselves control or play a major role in how things are run (albeit they often played for what was in the passed hat, but most people seem to come up with a decent suggested amount, and usually people are there and listening), day gigs if desired/needed, etc. ... not a paradise to be sure but... -- this by contrast with, say, the NYC metro area, where I believe the constraints across the board are much greater.

About KV, I've said my piece, reported what I know and/or believe to be so. How relevant that is and in what ways is for others to say.

[mjazzg]

Thanks Larry.That's very interesting and heartening to hear about the socio-economic climate providing at least an opportunity for artists to survive/work. I didn't realise Reed was so involved. He's a great drummer, writer, bandleader  from the recorded evidence that's for sure. 

[uli]

the talk about the velvet and past influences made me a bit nostalgic. i am watching this, nice snapsot on the scene for those who haven;t seen it;

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni4YpFq7OdE