Sonny Rollins´ odd remark on bass-players

[Gheorghe]

After reading the thread about the great Bob Cranshaw, some memories came back to me, great moments with Sonny Rollins „live“ in the late 70´s early 80´ , when he usually used the electric bass.

I remember an interview with Mr. Rollins, I think it was a Down-Beat interview, where he was asked „if he would ever use an acoustic bass-player again“ ?

Mr. Rollins kind of „fluffed the question off“ with a strange answer:

„Yeah, but it is much easier to carry an electric-bass around“. He further mentioned a Japan-Tour where he used Stanley Clarke playing up-right.

I always wondered about Mr. Rollins concerning about if it is „more easy“ to carry an electric bass around.“

It´s hard to imagine that this was the point, or could you imagine somebody telling him „Hey there, hustle that bass-fiddle up on the stage, and after that, give the drummer a hand with them tubs......“ (smile)...

I´m sure, Mr. Rollins had first class treatment and if he would have wanted it, they would have managed to carry five bass-fiddles for him if he would have liked to play with a „contrabass-choir“ behind him (smile).

Maybe he just didn´t want that somebody questioned his musical ideas about instrumental settings, or he was getting tired telling non-musicians, why the electric sound fits better to his recent music ?

Anyway, it seems that quite a lot of the great masters from the so called „acoustic“ era, like Dizzy Gillespie stopped to use acoustic bass. Even the older masters like Woody Herman and Buddy Rich used a fender-bass during that time, at least when I saw them „live“.

[BillF]

6 minutes ago, Gheorghe said:

Anyway, it seems that quite a lot of the great masters from the so called „acoustic“ era, like Dizzy Gillespie stopped to use acoustic bass. Even the older masters like Woody Herman and Buddy Rich used a fender-bass during that time, at least when I saw them „live“.

Didn't Lionel Hampton get on to it very early, i.e. in the fifties?

P.S. Looks like he did!

http://www.talkbass.com/threads/first-electric-bass-in-jazz.704440/

[Milestones]

Nothing wrong with electric bass if you're Jaco, Steve Swallow, or Stanley Clarke.  Otherwise..... 

[JSngry]

It is easier to carry around, especially if you have the house provide the amp.

Economics - an electric is (or used to be) a carry-on, with a soft-cover case if desired, whereas a bass violin required additional expense for both packaging and cartage. If you're traveling, that's impactful to both your bottom line and your peace of mind.

[uli]

iirc Bob Cranshow said that he started  playing electric because he had back problems playing the upright after a car accident,

 

I also seem to remember that Sonny once said in an interview that he prefers the electric because it gave him a stronger bounce or something like that.

[Larry Kart]

Hampton's electric-bass hookup was IIRC because that was what Monk Montgomery already played.

[fasstrack]

1 hour ago, Larry Kart said:

Hampton's electric-bass hookup was IIRC because that was what Monk Montgomery already played.

He also asked him to 'jump in the water' (from the balcony to the stage) 'for and extra $10, Gates. Classic showman and skinflint....

He actually said "Gates, another $10 if you 'jump in the river'". (The edit function doesn't seem to be working).

[BillF]

1 hour ago, Larry Kart said:

Hampton's electric-bass hookup was IIRC because that was what Monk Montgomery already played.

Sounds right.

15 minutes ago, fasstrack said:

He also asked him to 'jump in the water' (from the balcony to the stage) 'for and extra $10, Gates. Classic showman and skinflint....

Didn't I read somewhere that he had the whole band (minus instuments) jump into the Potomac on the final note of "Flying Home"?

[fasstrack]

6 minutes ago, BillF said:

Sounds right.

Didn't I read somewhere that he had the whole band (minus instuments) jump into the Potomac on the final note of "Flying Home"?

Ha!

I did read somewhere that Hamp, Illinois Jacquet, and Louis Armstrong all tried to outdo each other at a concert. The crowd didn't respond to Flying Home (by Jacquet) so he dipped deeper into his showman bag. Hamp also struggled for a bit. Pops, who arrived late and had to make another gig, said 'wait, we have to hear this'. When Hamp finally got them he said 'OK. We can go now'.

Hope I got the story right. Addled brain and CRS, you know (;

[BillF]

7 minutes ago, fasstrack said:

Ha!

I did read somewhere that Hamp, Illinois Jacquet, and Louis Armstrong all tried to outdo each other at a concert. The crowd didn't respond to Flying Home (by Jacquet) so he dipped deeper into his showman bag. Hamp also struggled for a bit. Pops, who arrived late and had to make another gig, said 'wait, we have to hear this'. When Hamp finally got them he said 'OK. We can go now'.

Hope I got the story right. Addled brain and CRS, you know (;

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=p0IDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA47&lpg=PA47&dq=lionel+hampton+band+jump+into+potomac&source=bl&ots=0MPvizG_Pk&sig=1-Co2T2igpkcmHZmoXDABfBOawA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDUQ6AEwA2oVChMInYGRkYudyQIVhD0PCh0GoAjs#v=onepage&q=lionel hampton band jump into potomac&f=false

Wish I'd been there!

Edited November 19, 2015 by BillF

[Gheorghe]

well my remark about the older masters like Buddy Rich and Woody Herman, who used electric in the 70´s was more or less an afterthought and I didn´t expect it would lead to  so much focus on Hamp.

I´d love  to get back to  Rollins: I also think, the reasons must have been in the first place musical ones, like "gettin a stronger bounce from the rhythm section".

Expenses or traveling stress? Well I don´t now how much they paid, but Rollins sure was one of the better paid artists. And others kept travelling with acoustic bass. I don´t mention the bassists-bandleaders  during that time - late 70´s , Mingus (it was his last tour), and Ron Carter, but Griffin always traveled with a strictly acoustic group, and since I saw his bass player Ray Drummond on several ocasions using the same bass-violin), I´m sure he traveled with it.

Maybe Rollins and Diz just had gotten tired of hearing a bass sound they had heard all their live, from childhood on until the late sixties ?

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

ive gone over this topic at length w/ bob cranshaw, here is the definitive answer: bob brought his electric bass to stanley turrentines rough n tumble session, beacuse stanley turrentine asked him to.  he wasnt playing electric on the hank date he did two weeks prior, because it was a different sort of session, more traditional so to say

[paul secor]

I heard a radio interview with George Duvivier where he discussed the electric bass. He'd done a lot of studio work over his career, and for some of it he was asked to play electric bass. At some point late in his career he grew tired of playing it. One day, he drove into Manhattan with the electric bass in his car. He left the bass in his car, left the car unlocked, and walked away. When he returned, the bass was gone from his life and he felt freer. Thinking about that story, I guess he was lucky that his car wasn't gone from his life too.

[king ubu]

Like that story! Not sure how anyone could tire of the sound of the double bass ... electric can of course be the right thing, but Cranshaw with Rollins never did much for me I'm afraid. But then this is the time were Rollins' sidemen hardly matter too much if he is tops.

[Gheorghe]

thanks for your replies !

I can imagine that George Duvivier wasn´t happy with an electric bass, IMHO he is one of the acoustic players who was kind of a musician´s musician, very much in demand, like Bob Cranshaw too.

If artists decided to change the more traditional settings in favour of electric basses, I think the best is to use guys who really are associated more with electric bass than with acoustic.

When I saw Sonny Rollins for the first time, he had Jerome Harris on Bass.
Diz had Benjamin Franklin Brown, later Mike Howell I think.

I must say when I was very young I was more an acoustic purist and wanted to hear boppish stuff in boppish surroundings, and always was a little disappointed when one of my "heros" didn´t have a bass fiddle on stage, but a fender bass.

I think, after so many many years, I got another attitude to it and even if I still believe, that the best music can be made with a sax, a trumpet, a piano, a bassfiddle and a set of drums, I see the electric bass as something more historical , something that reminds me of the time when I was young, even if this sounds strange to you. "Jazz" didn´t have so much historical meaning then, ´73, ´74, ´75, ´76...... If an album was OOP, it was OOP !  Using too many acoustic instruments was considered something "oldfashioned" ....

I remember one of the few contemporanous labels based on straight ahead  jazz  was "Pablo" , and usually the Pablo artists played acoustic, but I think I remember, that  the guys I knew and the scene I was involved with, didn´t regard it very highly.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

On 11/22/2015, 8:12:52, paul secor said:

I heard a radio interview with George Duvivier where he discussed the electric bass. He'd done a lot of studio work over his career, and for some of it he was asked to play electric bass. At some point late in his career he grew tired of playing it. One day, he drove into Manhattan with the electric bass in his car. He left the bass in his car, left the car unlocked, and walked away. When he returned, the bass was gone from his life and he felt freer. Thinking about that story, I guess he was lucky that his car wasn't gone from his life too.

For some reason, I was sure this story was going to say, "When he returned, he found 3 more basses in his car".

[duaneiac]

2 hours ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

For some reason, I was sure this story was going to say, "When he returned, he found 3 more basses in his car".

No, I think that is an accordion joke.

[Gheorghe]

On ‎19‎.‎11‎.‎2015‎ ‎15‎:‎00‎:‎36, Milestones said:

Nothing wrong with electric bass if you're Jaco, Steve Swallow, or Stanley Clarke.  Otherwise..... 

Well those are leaders themself, like if you take Ray Brown, Ron Carter etc. on acoustic bass.

But I doubt a leader-musician on tour, even if it´s a big name like Sonny Rollins or Diz would have used Jaco, Stanley Clarke for a touring group.

They might use "musician´s musicians", who maybe are recommended by fellow bandmembers.

Only if it´s a special event or maybe a promoting tour, like the legendary "Milestone All-Stars" (Rollins, McCoy Tyner, Ron Carter, - three "leaders" , plus Al Foster).

As the topic is "Rollins and  electric bass", how about an electric dream-band if it ever happened " as opposite to the mentioned "Milestone Allstars":

Rollins, George Duke electric piano, Stanley Clarke electric bass, and you can keep Al on drums, or take Billy Cobham or Alphonse Mouzon.......

[JSngry]

5 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

As the topic is "Rollins and  electric bass", how about an electric dream-band if it ever happened " as opposite to the mentioned "Milestone Allstars":

Rollins, George Duke electric piano, Stanley Clarke electric bass, and you can keep Al on drums, or take Billy Cobham or Alphonse Mouzon.......

You've just described Love At First Sight.

[Gheorghe]

17 hours ago, JSngry said:

You've just described Love At First Sight.

Really ? Wait a minute, I just checked it out.  Really !

Thank you, you made my day. I didn´t know that album (my fault), but I´m glad I could imagine something, that really exists, not only in my dreams.

Must purchase that.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

18 hours ago, JSngry said:

You've just described Love At First Sight.

lol

[Gheorghe]

should I start to write reviews about albums I didn´t know about *lol*

[johnblitweiler]

11 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

should I start to write reviews about albums I didn´t know about *lol*

Yes you should. I took Oscar Wilde's advice and never listened to an album before I wrote the review. Didn't want to get prejudiced.

[Gheorghe]

6 hours ago, johnblitweiler said:

Yes you should. I took Oscar Wilde's advice and never listened to an album before I wrote the review. Didn't want to get prejudiced.

interesting point ! thank you !

[soulpope]

On 22.11.2015, 14:12:52, paul secor said:

I heard a radio interview with George Duvivier where he discussed the electric bass. He'd done a lot of studio work over his career, and for some of it he was asked to play electric bass. At some point late in his career he grew tired of playing it. One day, he drove into Manhattan with the electric bass in his car. He left the bass in his car, left the car unlocked, and walked away. When he returned, the bass was gone from his life and he felt freer. Thinking about that story, I guess he was lucky that his car wasn't gone from his life too.

great story ....