MLB 2016 Season Thread Of Discussions

[Larry Kart]

Paul -- If you're a .500 or worse team, which is what the Yankees are and would have been unless they made these two trades and probably some similar ones down the road, what the heck do you need a topnotch closer for? So you end up four games above .500 rather than five games below? Who cares? The goal, as it should be for every team, is to win the World Series eventually. That goal was receding rapidly for the Yankees; and they've taken steps that should bring them closer to it. Keeping Miller and Chapman would not have done that IMO. 

[jlhoots]

Texas got Jeffress from the Brewers too.

Wonder if Milwaukee (my old hometown) will ever be any good again.

[paul secor]

2 hours ago, Larry Kart said:

Paul -- If you're a .500 or worse team, which is what the Yankees are and would have been unless they made these two trades and probably some similar ones down the road, what the heck do you need a topnotch closer for? So you end up four games above .500 rather than five games below? Who cares? The goal, as it should be for every team, is to win the World Series eventually. That goal was receding rapidly for the Yankees; and they've taken steps that should bring them closer to it. Keeping Miller and Chapman would not have done that IMO. 

I was for trading Chapman. I just couldn't see the point of trading Miller for more minor leaguers. Given Cashman's track record he'll probably just trade some of the minor leaguers for some over the hill veterans in the off-season.

I think you're a White Sox fan. If so, I'm sure you're happy that the Sox didn't trade Chris Sale and Jose Quintana for a bunch of minor leaguers. (From what I've read, the Sox wanted proven major leaguers for them, and contending teams weren't going for that. Perhaps they feel they can get that kind of value in the off season.) If you are a White Sox fan, how do you feel about them possibly trading Sale?)

What's done is done, and I'll wait for next year. I just hope that Cashman's gone at the end of this season (along with A-Rod and Sabathia and a few others).

[Dan Gould]

My question for Paul would be, what would your ideal GM do? Stick with the youth and hope for the best? Or spend all that Steinbrenner money on whatever halfway decent free agent(s) out there? Or for that matter, package some of the youth they've gotten to land "proven major league talent" or heaven forbid, a Chris Sale?

Because I think the Yankees chose to punt on this season to get whatever value they could but they don't at all intend to punt on 2017 or 2018. They are going to spend, and they are going to trade what they can, to try to reload and compete again.

[paul secor]

I'm not a GM, Dan, but neither is Cashman. I would pay off A-Rod and Sabathia right now and send them home, send Teixiera home now, and release Aaron Hicks as a start. Unfortunately no team will be interested in Jacoby Ellsbury, since he has four years and $84 mil. left on his contract (I bet you and the Red Sox are happy that he left), so the Yankees are stuck with him - hey, maybe make him a pinch runner. I'd like to see them package some of that minor league talent or "talent" (since it's not proven) for Chris Sale, but I doubt the White Sox will go for that one. Supposedly, they want proven major leaguers for Sale, and I don't blame them. I'd like to see the Yankees rebuild around young players, even if it takes a few years, and forget about signing or trading for soon to be has beens. But given Cashman's and the Yankees' past record, I doubt that will happen.

[JSngry]

Maybe the Yankees and the Angels could merge and be like the Filmores East & West of MLB.

[Chuck Nessa]

Never mind, I forgot this is an American League topic.

[jlhoots]

I don't care about the Yankees.

[Larry Kart]

19 hours ago, paul secor said:

I was for trading Chapman. I just couldn't see the point of trading Miller for more minor leaguers. Given Cashman's track record he'll probably just trade some of the minor leaguers for some over the hill veterans in the off-season.

I think you're a White Sox fan. If so, I'm sure you're happy that the Sox didn't trade Chris Sale and Jose Quintana for a bunch of minor leaguers. (From what I've read, the Sox wanted proven major leaguers for them, and contending teams weren't going for that. Perhaps they feel they can get that kind of value in the off season.) If you are a White Sox fan, how do you feel about them possibly trading Sale?)

What's done is done, and I'll wait for next year. I just hope that Cashman's gone at the end of this season (along with A-Rod and Sabathia and a few others).

I'm all for trading Sale, Quintana, and anyone else on the roster who has value. The Sox, to quote their GM Rick Hahn, are "mired in mediocrity," primarily because they've been following the "plug holes in  the boat" model for many years and also because they have, I think, the 25th-rated farm system. The Yankees have been in some different places over the years, but that model will get you in the end.

Hahn decided not to trade Sale et al. at  the deadline because he thought the market for  them would be better in the off-season, when all teams are bidding. He sat tight also because the Sox  think that don't just need prospects but proven young ML stars, and no contending team at the deadline (and it's those teams who are in the market then) is going to give you players of that type. Again, no current Sox star will be that good when and if the team as a whole ever is good. Sure, you can still make mistakes in who you trade for/acquire as free agents -- I've heard that the Sox, who just can't help themselves when it comes to aging vets, have a big yen for Matt Holiday! 

[paul secor]

Looks like we can both wait until next year - or the year after.

[Soulstation1]

Tribe having probs with the Twins

[paul secor]

A-Rod is retiring as of Friday. Now if C.C. retires, the Yankees can start rebuilding for real.

Edited August 7, 2016 by paul secor

[Dan Gould]

1 hour ago, paul secor said:

A-Rod is retiring as of Friday. Now if C.C. retires, the Yankees can start rebuilding for real.

The Paul Secor Tri-fecta, as it were: Teix, A-Rod, Sabathia.

The quote that strikes me is:

 

“As far as 700, or any of those type of milestones, I would have had an unbelievable, fun time going after them,” Rodriguez said.

 

But “those are not the cards I was dealt,” he added. “Again, I’m at peace with the organization’s decision.”

So for a team going nowhere they couldn't carry him on the roster for the rest of the month (after September 1 it hardly matters who is up with the big club) and let him play a game a week, pinch hit a couple of times a week, and see if he lucks into four taters and reaches 700.

No, it's, "you won't do us a favor and quit so we're off the hook for next season's salary, so f-off, we'll pay you but you'll get no final send off unless we give you one next Friday. Let's see if the Red Sox fans let bye-gones be by-gones. Just be gone, Alex."

If the team were fighting for a spot in the playoffs they should have done it long ago but now even Yankee fans won't get a chance to send him off into retirement. Pretty cold if you ask me. 

[paul secor]

I don't know how "Yankee fans" feel about it, but I won't miss him for a second. If that's cold, so be it.

[ghost of miles]

I would have preferred to see A-Rod finish out the season and DH a couple of times a week, at least against lefties... the rosters are expanding come September 1 anyway, and he could have played a valuable role simply helping to mentor all of the younger players who are coming along in the Yankees system.   In that scenario, he might have had a shot at reaching 700 HRs, too.  This season's already a wash, so why not?  I also think he went a long way towards redeeming himself in the past year and a half.  I can certainly understand why for many that's all well and good, but not enough to wipe away the aura of his past behavior; but I really believe he did the best he could in the past 18 months, both as a player and as a person.  It was also great to see him turn back the clock sans steroids for the first few months of the 2015 season.  I doubt that he'll ever be admitted into the Hall of Fame, but better for him, I think he's finally found a kind of peace with himself.

Regarding Andrew Miller, hopefully Clint Frazier and/or Justus Sheffield will pan out and make the trade worth it.  But I regret seeing Miller go because I don't think the Yankees are writing off 2017, let alone 2018.  With players like Aaron Judge, Gary Sanchez (looks like the future is now at catcher), and Greg Bird all at or nearly at MLB level, Castro solid at second base and Gregorius exceeding expectations at shortstop, and Torres now in the pipeline, the Yankees IMO won't be out of contention for the next two years, though undoubtedly not division favorites.  The rotation is a bit iffy--hopefully they'll resign Tanaka, but Pineda, Eovaldi, and now Severino (back in the rotation this week) are all question marks in one way or another as starters.  If another reliever emerges to be a good set-up man and Betances works out as a closer, then perhaps the Yankees won't miss Miller at all in the next two years.  But I'm like Paul--all for dealing Chapman, much more ambivalent about getting rid of Miller, who's pitching at his peak.  I would have preferred to see NY keep him for the remaining two years of his contract and then let him walk... but I hope to be proven wrong, wrong, wrong as Clint Frazier soars to stardom in the NY outfield and Justus Sheffield becomes a key cog of the Yankees' rotation. 

[Dan Gould]

What really didn't make sense about Miller is making the move at the trade deadline instead of the off-season. Relievers may be over-priced July 31 but the Yankees will never know what they might have been offered if they'd waited until the off-season and any team might have made an offer rather than only contenders, and only contenders that needed a closer.

 

[Matthew]

4 hours ago, paul secor said:

I don't know how "Yankee fans" feel about it, but I won't miss him for a second. If that's cold, so be it.

I'm with Paul on this, ARod burned his bridges many years ago.  A sad end to what should have be a glorious career.

[JSngry]

I agree, a mentor is needed. Shaving your testicles is not a job for the unseasoned. These players cost a lot of money, one stray nick and that money's down the drain. Protect the investments, I say, teach the youth in the way which you would have them go.

[Dave James]

The Yanks are taking the long view.  Stock up on high end prospects now.  Tex's salary is gone this year, A-Rod and C.C.'s at the end of 2018.  That will co-incide with one of the best free agent classes in recent memory including but not limited to the likes of Bryce Harper, Manny Machado and Andrew McCutchen.  Throw a couple of those guys on the fire along with the young talent, and you have the makings of a very good and a very young team.  I know a lot of this depends on how the prospects fare, but if you're a Yankee fan, you have to be excited about the possibilities.  While there's no love lost between me and Brian Cashman, I think this may be the best work he's done as the team's G.M.  

[Dan Gould]

2 hours ago, Dave James said:

The Yanks are taking the long view.  Stock up on high end prospects now.  Tex's salary is gone this year, A-Rod and C.C.'s at the end of 2018.  That will co-incide with one of the best free agent classes in recent memory including but not limited to the likes of Bryce Harper, Manny Machado and Andrew McCutchen.  

Is it coincidence that we've had more "weak" free agent classes, or are fewer really talented players going to free agency?  What I am trying to say is, I don't know who their agent's are but I could see the Nats paying what it takes to keep Harper on the team.

Not everyone is holding out for Yankee money anymore, or else more players are finding that money elsewhere.

[Dave James]

From what I'm hearing, Harper could command as much as $750 million.  Hard to believe.  That would be more than twice the size of Giancarlo Stanton's current deal with the  Marlins.  And I thought the NBA was crazy.

[Dan Gould]

I'd really like to know who has tossed around a figure like $750 million, because um, NO.  NO team in the next three years is signing anyone for $750 million dollars.

Maybe his son, or son's son, signs for money like that. After you and I are long gone.

[ghost of miles]

For the sake of Harper's future megabucks, he'll have to figure this out:

Why Bryce Harper has gone from great to good

[Brad]

I think Boras represents Harper and he's talked in the past how he was a Yankee fan when he was a kid so color him in pinstripes.  Yankees would have no trouble with $750 M. 

[paul secor]

I hope that the Yankees have big trouble with that number and that Harper stays with the Nationals.