BFT 145 Discusion

[Spontooneous]

I think HP has got Track 2 exactly right.

Starts with KD, then Thad at about 2:45, then Maggie (love how someone says "Yeah Maggie!" at the end).

Later, 12 bars each from KD, Thad and Maggie in that order, followed by two choruses of fours in the same order.

That's how I'm hearing it, anyway.

[mjzee]

I've compiled what we know (and think) so far:

Still not identified:

1. Not Fathead, not Johnny Griffin, not Booker Ervin.

3. Now’s The Time.  Not Jim Hall.  Not a Left Bank Society recording.  Not Don Wilkerson.

6. Not an Oliver Nelson arrangement.  Not Thad and Mel. 

7. Not Ray Bryant.  Not Gene Harris.  Not Junior Mance. 

8. Senor Blues.  Two pianos.  Not Les McCann.

Identified:

2. Group consensus says it’s Kenny Dorham, Thad Jones and Howard McGhee, though Dan disagrees.

4. Art Blakey, “Politely,” from Jazz Messengers 70.

5. Lucky Thompson.

9. Scott Hamilton Meets Jesper Thilo.

10. Joe Castro.

 

Re #6: Is it Groove Holmes?  One of those Groove Merchant things, with Bucky Pizzarelli?

Re #7: Is the tune “Send Me Somebody To Love”?

[Dan Gould]

Nice compilation, I'm hopeful we'll get some attention paid outside of track 2. I'd only add that the tenor on #10 was identified as Teddy Edwards. And while Lucky Thompson was ID'd I am curious if anyone knows or sleuths out where it came from as this seems to be a pretty rare record.

Regarding your questions, #6 is not Groove Holmes or off the Groove Merchant label.  #7 is Please Send Me Someone to Love.  I might toss in a hint on that one that will probably give it away, but not before the end of the month.

[mjzee]

Re #5, I was able to identify it from the Net, but was waiting for someone to identify it more "organically."

[BillF]

48 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

Nice compilation, I'm hopeful we'll get some attention paid outside of track 2. I'd only add that the tenor on #10 was identified as Teddy Edwards. And while Lucky Thompson was ID'd I am curious if anyone knows or sleuths out where it came from as this seems to be a pretty rare record.

Regarding your questions, #6 is not Groove Holmes or off the Groove Merchant label.  #7 is Please Send Me Someone to Love.  I might toss in a hint on that one that will probably give it away, but not before the end of the month.

Looks like the Lucky Thompson track is from this:

http://pict2.ec-sites.jp/img/2713/289907/480/20140523143432.jpg

http://www.freshsoundrecords.com/lucky-thompson/3483-accent-on-tenor-sax.html

[Dan Gould]

Nicely done though mine is actually off a Urania records compilation LP. Is that a particularly well known Lucky Thompson LP?

Chalk another up to Bill.

[Spontooneous]

Moving on to trying to decode #3, because I'm utterly defeated by #1...

Are the tenor player who goes first and the alto player who trades with the drums the same person? I'm thinking no, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

The alto keeps reminding me of John Handy or Frank Morgan.

The drumming keeps reminding me of Frank Dunlop.

 

[BillF]

11 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

 Is that a particularly well known Lucky Thompson LP?

 

Years ago I owned this album:

It's also been discussed recently on the board:

http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?/topic/78873-jimmy-hamilton/

[Dan Gould]

7 hours ago, Spontooneous said:

Moving on to trying to decode #3, because I'm utterly defeated by #1...

Are the tenor player who goes first and the alto player who trades with the drums the same person? I'm thinking no, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

The alto keeps reminding me of John Handy or Frank Morgan.

The drumming keeps reminding me of Frank Dunlop.

 

Tenor did switch to alto.  He is the "name" on the date, most of the others I believe are "local" guys which I thought maybe Jim Sangrey was picking up on when he said that the rest of the band was "kind of annoying".  But I might be wrong on that, personally I only recognize the bassist as another "name" guy.

[JSngry]

Red Holloway on #3?

[Dan Gould]

51 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Red Holloway on #3?

Nope.

[mjzee]

Thinking of people who double on tenor and alto... Barney Wilen, Zoot Sims, Sonny Stitt...any of them?

Art Pepper?

[Dan Gould]

51 minutes ago, mjzee said:

Thinking of people who double on tenor and alto... Barney Wilen, Zoot Sims, Sonny Stitt...any of them?

Art Pepper?

Nope.

[JSngry]

On 4/10/2016 at 10:42 PM, Spontooneous said:

Moving on to trying to decode #3, because I'm utterly defeated by #1...

...

The drumming keeps reminding me of Frank Dunlop.

 

Yes about the drumming, except the kit doesn't seemed to be tuned quite as tightly. Or maybe it's the recording.

The tenor/alto playing is a weird amalgam of dialects, all of them, however, spoken with a great deal of awareness, so it's not like whoever this is is some randomizing picker-and-chooser, I sense some real identity underneath it all, some real seasoning, but there's some Charlie Rouse, some Zoot, a little bit of Griff, some miscue in the altissimo, some I don't know what, and none of it really jumps out to me as truly singular. The alto playing sounds like the tenor playing only like the guy(?) is being cute about it being a smaller horn and jumping right in with the fast-finger stuff.

The rhythm section does sound "local", but high-ish level local, so it sounds like a scene that was pretty active and well-traveled through. The "annoying" part of it for me is that it sounds like one of those places where there was these guys and they did this thing, and then it and they stopped. Everybody was happy with where they were, and if the world moved on, they didn't. And that drummer gets Bobby Durham-level annoying...We're either in Europe or some place like Denver, maybe?

But as far as skills go, hey, everybody here's got skills. But - to move from this to the Carlos Garnett/Blakey right afterwards...little things mean a lot, and a lot of little things do add up to a big thing.

Dude, it that Teddy Edwards on #1? Did you give us Teddy Bookends?

[Dan Gould]

2 hours ago, JSngry said:

Yes about the drumming, except the kit doesn't seemed to be tuned quite as tightly. Or maybe it's the recording.

The tenor/alto playing is a weird amalgam of dialects, all of them, however, spoken with a great deal of awareness, so it's not like whoever this is is some randomizing picker-and-chooser, I sense some real identity underneath it all, some real seasoning, but there's some Charlie Rouse, some Zoot, a little bit of Griff, some miscue in the altissimo, some I don't know what, and none of it really jumps out to me as truly singular. The alto playing sounds like the tenor playing only like the guy(?) is being cute about it being a smaller horn and jumping right in with the fast-finger stuff.

This is very interesting as this is not someone who is aggragating dialects, this is a name player.

The rhythm section does sound "local", but high-ish level local, so it sounds like a scene that was pretty active and well-traveled through. The "annoying" part of it for me is that it sounds like one of those places where there was these guys and they did this thing, and then it and they stopped. Everybody was happy with where they were, and if the world moved on, they didn't. And that drummer gets Bobby Durham-level annoying...We're either in Europe or some place like Denver, maybe?

Not Europe or Denver.

But as far as skills go, hey, everybody here's got skills. But - to move from this to the Carlos Garnett/Blakey right afterwards...little things mean a lot, and a lot of little things do add up to a big thing.

Dude, it that Teddy Edwards on #1? Did you give us Teddy Bookends?

I did indeed give you Teddy Bookends.

 

[JSngry]

And did Mr. Bookends do the arranging for this date (asking because it's so strongly suggestive of "East Dallas Special" from Booker 'N' Brass)?

Have we had a guess of Budd Johnson for #3?

[Dan Gould]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

And did Mr. Bookends do the arranging for this date (asking because it's so strongly suggestive of "East Dallas Special" from Booker 'N' Brass)?

Have we had a guess of Budd Johnson for #3?

Yes, and no to the question of whether it is Budd Johnson for #3.

[Dan Gould]

On 4/9/2016 at 3:11 PM, mjzee said:

I've compiled what we know (and think) so far:

Still not identified:

1. Not Fathead, not Johnny Griffin, not Booker Ervin.

 

3. Now’s The Time.  Not Jim Hall.  Not a Left Bank Society recording.  Not Don Wilkerson.

 

6. Not an Oliver Nelson arrangement.  Not Thad and Mel. 

 

7. Not Ray Bryant.  Not Gene Harris.  Not Junior Mance. 

 

8. Senor Blues.  Two pianos.  Not Les McCann.

 

Identified:

2. Group consensus says it’s Kenny Dorham, Thad Jones and Howard McGhee, though Dan disagrees.

 

4. Art Blakey, “Politely,” from Jazz Messengers 70.

 

5. Lucky Thompson.

 

9. Scott Hamilton Meets Jesper Thilo.

 

10. Joe Castro.

 

 

 

Re #6: Is it Groove Holmes?  One of those Groove Merchant things, with Bucky Pizzarelli?

Re #7: Is the tune “Send Me Somebody To Love”?

 

 

Up for hopefully a spirited final effort to solve the remaining mysteries.

Or perhaps for Thom Keith and/or MG to make an appearance and sweep the board.

Mysteries remaining:

1. Jim came up with Teddy Edwards, the actual recording is unknown.

3. Live version of Now's The Time by a pretty darn well-regarded saxophonist who doubled on alto on the track.

6. Big band with organ.  This was picked with MG in mind so I really hope if he's been offline he gets a chance to listen and comment.

7. Soulful pianist who isn't Gene Harris.

8. Two pianists; the logic of my BFTs would suggest one of them might be Gene Harris but which one? And who would the other be? If Tom F. were participating he'd probably nail this as I've shared this track with him in the past.

And I guess that's it. Actually the bone is pretty picked clean. Carry on. I'll have answers on April 30.

 

[JSngry]

Totally random and unsupported guess of Frank Wess on #3?

[Dan Gould]

37 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Totally random and unsupported guess of Frank Wess on #3?

Totally random, unsupported and unequivocally .... right.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, actually it's wrong.  

[Larry Kart]

Just listened for the first time. On track #1 I had a brain wave that it might be Edwards featured with some semi-commercial white West Coast band of the time, like Si Zentner, with the band trying to be soulful. The trombone figures gave me that feeling.

On track #3 --  maybe it's been guessed before; if so, I apologize -- Von Freeman?

[Dan Gould]

37 minutes ago, Larry Kart said:

Just listened for the first time. On track #1 I had a brain wave that it might be Edwards featured with some semi-commercial white West Coast band of the time, like Si Zentner, with the band trying to be soulful. The trombone figures gave me that feeling.

Well nice job thinking Teddy right away but definitely not a white West Coast band, at least to my knowledge of the race of most of the members.

On track #3 --  maybe it's been guessed before; if so, I apologize -- Von Freeman?

Now to me that's a little off the wall but no, not him.

 

[mjzee]

Dan, how about dropping some hints?

[Dan Gould]

6 hours ago, mjzee said:

Dan, how about dropping some hints?

I'll see what I can come up with the problem is that anything I think of results in me thinking "how can anyone not get it now?" 

[Hot Ptah]

7 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

I'll see what I can come up with the problem is that anything I think of results in me thinking "how can anyone not get it now?" 

Oh, you may be overestimating many of us.