Joe

BFT #149: Discussion

53 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, BillF said:

Brexit Blues? <_<

I know, I know... too much to choose from this year. But I am thinking specifically of terrible events in arts and culture.

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Posting from work, listening on phone, the traditional thanks and disclaimers fully in place, let's get monetized!:

TRACK ONE - It's definitely something newer, judging by the sound and recording of the organ. The tune itself might be older, though. Or it might just be its and pieces of older structures . No matter, I like the drummer, am ok with the organist, and find the clarinetist to be an odd mix of somebody whose fingers and embouchure don't always feel comfortable with each other but are generally ok when left alone to themselves.. The Space Age Ending definitely betrays a more modern overall outlook. I'd like to hear more by the group before deciding if I'd like to hear more from the group.

TRACK TWO - Seems as if I should recognize this song, it sounds like a show tune or a pop tune, rebuilt into this...oddly enough, what really comes to mind here in terms of aural memory is Brubeck's "Calcutta Blues" from Jazz Impressions Of Eurasia. Many things from there show up here (not Paul Desmond, though). Whatever it is, I like it, and would strongly encourage a go-back to the Brubeck piece mentioned, as it is not at all a "typical" Brubeck performance on anybody's part. Just for grins, the Bad Plus? or Brad Mehldau?

TRACK THREE - Piano voicings suggest either Brubeck or Peterson. Solo more the latter. Tempo changes more the former. Pedal technique, neither. Drummer does suggest Morello...or Alan Dawson? It's probably nobody even remotely connect with any of them, but shit goes where it goes, right? But that last chord - Brubeckian.

TRACK FOUR - Is that John Gilmore? That's a drummer too! Clifford Jordan, if not Gilmore? It's got that dark, and darkly recorded, minor hardbop thing going on, voices from the shadows, that kind of thing. People are fluent, for sure. But the tenor have the Chicago pitch, for sure. And the drummer the Max. Left hand piano, baaaaad....Mal Waldron? What is this record?

TRACK FIVE - Grunting! Birdness! Vibes! Very clear recording! Nicely listening piano comping! More grunting! Not Phil Woods, although perhaps looking for some of the same work! No more grunting! Not bad! Not really...necessary, but not that much really is.

TRACK SIX - Bill Barron? No, too-much Trane derivation...Nathan Davis, perhaps? No matter, it's frisky! The "All God's Children" allusion coming back in after the drum solo kills me. Somebody with real chops though, adding Trane, not starting there...I could almost go back to Bill Barron, but the tone is not consistently his, not that it seems. But yeah, that's some playing right there!

TRACK SEVEN - Ok, that started of working really well for me, but the longer it went on, the more "performed" it seemed...excellent players all, no doubt, and maybe some more to be gotten from them than was heard here. But...a little more whispering, please.

TRACK EIGHT - I like that drummer n bassist.

TRACK NINE - That was effective. Nice.

TRACK TEN - It's amazing how well they can record basses these days. And also how they don't even bother to interrupt for a commercial, they just put one over what's already playing and let it keep going. and it's not even a commercial! Don Heckman & John Benson-Brooks laugh at the very notion.

TRACK ELEVEN - There you go, that's the difference between walking out your front door after getting out of bed and being dropped off on the sidewalk to meet the guy who's walking out his front door after getting out of bed. This is music that stretches in all directions and comes back when let go.

TRACK TWELVE - Sounds like Pharoah, but not the band. Nice cut, sounds like an excerpt or a miniature.

TRACK THIRTEEN - Gonna go out on a limb and say that this is a Maynard Band and that's Willie Maiden. It's all got that flayvah. A much deeper pocket than most Maynard records, though, so maybe not, or maybe an earlier band, but jeez does that swing. And I think I only hear one alto in the section. But if not that, then Bill Perkins with god knows who. That's a great band, for real, blend, phrasing, pocket, whoever, wherever, of all the things that can go wrong when charts get played, none of them happen here, none. Is Gerald Wilson involved in this at all?

TRACK FOURTEEN - very quiet congas. Almost hits me like a Red cut, but not with those dynamics dramatics, not like that. No idea, but a nice cut for the subtleties.

TRACK FIFTEEN - Wow, you have to really want to play that many notes for that long, so here's to doing the work and getting what you want. Here's also to doing it without getting that generic "NYC Tenor" sound in the process, especially to that part, really. Still got some homemade in it, and that's what I like to hear. Yeah.

Good set, man. Not idea what most of it was, but we'll find out soon enough. all I can tell you that I've listened to it on ambien in bed and now soberly sober at a desk, and it's a good ride both ways.

 

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The tenor soloist on rack 13 has now been identified.

And, yes, major Chicago implications on track 4.

As to other impressions and such: this BFT is not confined to North American players.

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Will ther be any Naruyoshi Kikuchi Dub Sextet represented?

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2 hours ago, JSngry said:

Will ther be any Naruyoshi Kikuchi Dub Sextet represented?

Maybe next time.... too many cooks, you know?

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I just wondered about that first cut, the ending, that was something like that the Dub Sextet does, random digital "goosings". The instrumentation doesn't match, just the sense of game.

So it's Bill Perkins, then. Ok. Whatever band that is is seriously nice.

 

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1 hour ago, JSngry said:

I just wondered about that first cut, the ending, that was something like that the Dub Sextet does, random digital "goosings". The instrumentation doesn't match, just the sense of game.

So it's Bill Perkins, then. Ok. Whatever band that is is seriously nice.

 

You may have heard the clarinet player on 1 on tenor; he records more frequently on sax (at least I think so). There are a few tricksters in this band besides.

I think the leader / composer / arranger on 13 might come as a surprise... did for me!

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It does sound like a Maynard band in terms of voicings and color...Marty Paich would be a non-surprise...but the big three of that band's staff - Maiden, Hampton, & Sebesky...don't know of any courses being crossed there.

I will say, the recording quality (as heard through phone and earbuds) does have a Pacific Jazz studio sound to it, which is why I was asking about Gerald Wilson. That does not NOT sound like a Gerald Wilson arrangement using a reduced size band...but you say that leader/composer/arranger are the same person? Or do you not say that, do you instead say that each identity will come as a surprise.

Also, that sounds like Perk's sound was in transition...that puts it definitely in the 1960s or later, I'm thinking?

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1 hour ago, JSngry said:

...but you say that leader/composer/arranger are the same person?

Bandleader and arranger are the same individual, but the composer is someone else again. Though, to the best of my knowledge, this a composition never recorded by that composer, themselves a soloist and bandleader of some note. In fact, the more research I do, the more curious and curiouser the history behind this particular tune becomes.

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Well, put me down for at least as much of that, then!

The Chicago thing...is that Von by any chance? One of the Andrew Hill Ping 45s? Those are two questions, mind you.

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6 hours ago, JSngry said:

Well, put me down for at least as much of that, then!

The Chicago thing...is that Von by any chance? One of the Andrew Hill Ping 45s? Those are two questions, mind you.

No Von, no Hill. The players here are more obscure, but we're not talking private press or anything. I'll also say there's a link between 4 and 14.

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Whoa, Mr. Takahinto finds King Fleming with Malachi and realizes he's been waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too late getting to that party.

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Finally remembered that this was waiting for me (amazing how when all you have to do is kill time how little you can accomplish!).  Did okay on this one, but have some burning questions.  I thought I was in for a long test with the first cut, but overall, I really enjoyed the vast majority of this music and I'm looking forward to the reveal.  

Track 1 - no clue.  Not feeling it.  Probably due to my clarinet issues, but something about the approach here just doesn't... swing, I guess.  It's not striking the chord it should be.

Track 2 - I like this.  Understated.  It's not grabbing me by the lapels, but it's very pleasant and interesting.

Track 3 - Straight ahead, good for whatever ails you.  Shades of Oscar Peterson and Lennie, which is weird, but it works.  Drum solo didn't turn me on, but this pianist is killing it.  My guess is a younger player with some really good listening in his/her past.

Track 4 - Ah!  B3 from here.  Personnel is here.  Early Muhal!  Very nice!

Track 5 - Old fashioned case of the blues.  Not sure what it is, but that's Charlie Mariano.  And Victor Feldman.  Why do I not have this?  Drums are kind of... not stiff... but kind of stiff.  Kind of like Shelley Manne.  Is that really two horns or overdubbed?  Sounds too old to play those games.  No idea who the mystery man, but sounds like a redux of Charlie on two listens.

Track 6 - This is killin'.  Recording sounds older.  Tenor sounds kind of like Garzone at his very best, but more in-the-moment.  Has that sort of post-Coltrane sound, but it's still personal.  I could listen to a LOT of this.  Almost like one of the disciples of Shorter except that s/he got it RIGHT!  Touches of Charles Lloyd, but with more balls.

Track 7 - Sounds like Bud Powell... almost.  I'm starting to sense a possible European theme, here.  Some ringers who are close, but not quite who they seem to be.  I like this, but the drums are just... well... speaking of themes... stiff.

Track 8 - Definitely modern.  Has that "remix" beat, but with a Return to Forever feel.  No idea.  I like it, but not sure it leaves a lasting impression.  Bet I'd enjoy the hell out of this live, though.

Track 9 - Tasteful use of the unemployment stick.  Is that You Don't Know What Love Is?  Interesting take.  I like it more and more when I hear a completely different take on the "chestnuts".  No guesses.  Not a lot unique about the soprano, other than the non-screeching approach (which is more than worth it!). 

Track 10 - I'm liking it, but then it keeps losing me.  Sounds a bit like Calvin Hill in that regard.  Such a great instrument, but not sure how I feel about the sound of this one.  Has that chop/funk attack that Calvin Hill does so well, but doesn't seem to have the same warmth of tone as he does.  Thought of Arthur Blythe immediately when the horns came in.  Not sure what all is going on there... wait... I have this!  Egad!  Didn't recognize it until the static (I will never understand why they did that).  It's track 4 from this.  Anyone remember when the Rolling Stones did something similar to a Duke Ellington track on... Tattoo You?

Track 11 - First instincts were way off -- I was thinking Lee Konitz off the bat.  It's Kansas City Line from this.  JH could hammer those classic lines as well as anybody but never got any credit for it.

Track 12 - Uhm... wow.  Need to find my sister's flourescent leg warmers.  I hope this is somebody well known making a bad choice.  I'm hearing it as an Emanuelle soundtrack.  I guess it's kinky, then, that I'm secretly enjoying it... but against every fiber of my being.

Track 13 - Can't name the tune, but it's a Lennie Niehaus composition, of that I'm sure.  That's definitely Bill Perkins.  I wish I'd done this BFT with my Dad -- he'd know all these guys. :)  There's Lennie, so that's a good sign.  I like this drummer better than some of the early ones on this test.  It's the same style, but he seems a smidge looser. 

Track 14 - Not sure where I am on this.  I like it, but I can't quite buy in.  But, with those block chords, now I'm all aboard.  Then he's back up in tinkle land.  I don't know... it's just weird enough that I'm in, but only for a song.  Does that make sense?  No idea.  Digging hell out of the bass, though.  

Track 15 - Needle drop.  I'm all over this.  Somebody likes their Trane, a LOT!  (WHO DON'T!?!)  Has that pinched sound and aggressiveness of Liebman in the 70s.  Somehow, I'm not offended by the gratuitous Trane quotes (perhaps because s/he is doing them the right way -- with FEELING!).  Insert 70s Berklee guy here... could even be early Bergonzi.  I like this, though, even if it doesn't exist without St. John.

Thanks for the listen!

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OMG, Nicky Hill!

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1 hour ago, tkeith said:

Finally remembered that this was waiting for me (amazing how when all you have to do is kill time how little you can accomplish!).  Did okay on this one, but have some burning questions.  I thought I was in for a long test with the first cut, but overall, I really enjoyed the vast majority of this music and I'm looking forward to the reveal.  

Track 1 - no clue.  Not feeling it.  Probably due to my clarinet issues, but something about the approach here just doesn't... swing, I guess.  It's not striking the chord it should be.

Track 2 - I like this.  Understated.  It's not grabbing me by the lapels, but it's very pleasant and interesting.

Track 3 - Straight ahead, good for whatever ails you.  Shades of Oscar Peterson and Lennie, which is weird, but it works.  Drum solo didn't turn me on, but this pianist is killing it.  My guess is a younger player with some really good listening in his/her past.

Track 4 - Ah!  B3 from here.  Personnel is here.  Early Muhal!  Very nice!

Track 5 - Old fashioned case of the blues.  Not sure what it is, but that's Charlie Mariano.  And Victor Feldman.  Why do I not have this?  Drums are kind of... not stiff... but kind of stiff.  Kind of like Shelley Manne.  Is that really two horns or overdubbed?  Sounds too old to play those games.  No idea who the mystery man, but sounds like a redux of Charlie on two listens.

Track 6 - This is killin'.  Recording sounds older.  Tenor sounds kind of like Garzone at his very best, but more in-the-moment.  Has that sort of post-Coltrane sound, but it's still personal.  I could listen to a LOT of this.  Almost like one of the disciples of Shorter except that s/he got it RIGHT!  Touches of Charles Lloyd, but with more balls.

Track 7 - Sounds like Bud Powell... almost.  I'm starting to sense a possible European theme, here.  Some ringers who are close, but not quite who they seem to be.  I like this, but the drums are just... well... speaking of themes... stiff.

Track 8 - Definitely modern.  Has that "remix" beat, but with a Return to Forever feel.  No idea.  I like it, but not sure it leaves a lasting impression.  Bet I'd enjoy the hell out of this live, though.

Track 9 - Tasteful use of the unemployment stick.  Is that You Don't Know What Love Is?  Interesting take.  I like it more and more when I hear a completely different take on the "chestnuts".  No guesses.  Not a lot unique about the soprano, other than the non-screeching approach (which is more than worth it!). 

Track 10 - I'm liking it, but then it keeps losing me.  Sounds a bit like Calvin Hill in that regard.  Such a great instrument, but not sure how I feel about the sound of this one.  Has that chop/funk attack that Calvin Hill does so well, but doesn't seem to have the same warmth of tone as he does.  Thought of Arthur Blythe immediately when the horns came in.  Not sure what all is going on there... wait... I have this!  Egad!  Didn't recognize it until the static (I will never understand why they did that).  It's track 4 from this.  Anyone remember when the Rolling Stones did something similar to a Duke Ellington track on... Tattoo You?

Track 11 - First instincts were way off -- I was thinking Lee Konitz off the bat.  It's Kansas City Line from this.  JH could hammer those classic lines as well as anybody but never got any credit for it.

Track 12 - Uhm... wow.  Need to find my sister's flourescent leg warmers.  I hope this is somebody well known making a bad choice.  I'm hearing it as an Emanuelle soundtrack.  I guess it's kinky, then, that I'm secretly enjoying it... but against every fiber of my being.

Track 13 - Can't name the tune, but it's a Lennie Niehaus composition, of that I'm sure.  That's definitely Bill Perkins.  I wish I'd done this BFT with my Dad -- he'd know all these guys. :)  There's Lennie, so that's a good sign.  I like this drummer better than some of the early ones on this test.  It's the same style, but he seems a smidge looser. 

Track 14 - Not sure where I am on this.  I like it, but I can't quite buy in.  But, with those block chords, now I'm all aboard.  Then he's back up in tinkle land.  I don't know... it's just weird enough that I'm in, but only for a song.  Does that make sense?  No idea.  Digging hell out of the bass, though.  

Track 15 - Needle drop.  I'm all over this.  Somebody likes their Trane, a LOT!  (WHO DON'T!?!)  Has that pinched sound and aggressiveness of Liebman in the 70s.  Somehow, I'm not offended by the gratuitous Trane quotes (perhaps because s/he is doing them the right way -- with FEELING!).  Insert 70s Berklee guy here... could even be early Bergonzi.  I like this, though, even if it doesn't exist without St. John.

Thanks for the listen!

Wow, bullseyes on a couple of these.

I think you've got the decade pinned down on 12. Not a name player "slumming," though.

What if I told you all that there's a link between the pianists on 3 and 7?

No overdubs on 5.

14: yeah, bass is the reason that track is here at all. Not to say the piano is completely without interest, but...

 

Edited by Joe

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12...Some tenor things happen that are really patented Pharoah, but more happen that aren't...is Norman Connors in the mix here at all?

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1 hour ago, JSngry said:

12...Some tenor things happen that are really patented Pharoah, but more happen that aren't...is Norman Connors in the mix here at all?

I was wondering if it was somebody like Carlos Garnett or Azar Lawrence because of that.

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Same here, although if we're talking legwarmer80s I don't know how active either one of those two were recording-wise. Could be wrong about that.

Thinking that a clue might be had in the guitar that opens and closes that cut?

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1 hour ago, JSngry said:

Same here, although if we're talking legwarmer80s I don't know how active either one of those two were recording-wise. Could be wrong about that.

Thinking that a clue might be had in the guitar that opens and closes that cut?

Bingo.

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1.  Clarinet and Organ sounding like a perfectly obvious combination that you never heard before.  I would guess Bill Heid, unless the strange fadeout is an intentional laptop contribution.  In that case I'd think it came from the Tzadik label.
2.  The evocative percussion reminds of Sun Ra's India but the piano style definitely not, more Keith Jarrett, but free of vocalizations.  Brad Mehldau?
3.  The blues content is making me think of later Mary Lou Williams.
4.  Farmer Golson Jazztet?
5.  I'm thinking that's Milt Jackson, but not sure he's the leader.  Alto could possibly be Gigi Gryce.
6.  Definitely sounds like Billy Harper.
7.  Maybe Tommy Flanagan?
8.  Very tasty Rhodes playing.  Kenny Barron played some Rhodes in the seventies.
9.  Jane Ira Bloom?  Wouldn't be surprised if this was on the Arabesque label.
10.  Ron Carter?
11.  Solo Alto.  Not out, and not Tenderly so Lee Konitz is the guess.  The tone fits.
12.  This combination of gritty sax and silky commerical arrangements strongly suggests Gato Barbieri.
13.  Nice big band.  Modern enough to be Thad Jones/Mel Lewis.  Tenor sax solo is not Billy Harper.
14.  I'm thinking Ahmad Jamal here.
15.  And this also sounds like Billy Harper, perhaps a little less.  There are licks I would expect to hear if it was George Adams that I'm not hearing, a little aggressive flurry that appears even in his ballads.

 

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Confirmed Choice of Potato's guess as correct. I remember reading that a pianist (John Esposito?) had some Rhames he was trying to get put out and it never happened.  Quite a loss.

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7 hours ago, randyhersom said:

1.  Clarinet and Organ sounding like a perfectly obvious combination that you never heard before.  I would guess Bill Heid, unless the strange fadeout is an intentional laptop contribution.  In that case I'd think it came from the Tzadik label.
 

 

Close indeed! Just take a couple of steps to the left (or downtown?), label-wise...

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The clock is about to run out on this. Any additional comments or speculations are most welcome!

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Was ready to post yesterday, but the board was down...

1 - Those folks who guessed Buddy DeFranco were on to something, because the clarinetist's phraseology is VERY beboppish. No idea who it is, but I'd guess someone who usually plays a sax because the execution is a little rough. I like the Bill Heid guess for organ. I confess, I'd buy this record.

2 - Listening to this while driving a couple of weeks ago, I convinced myself this was a heavily veiled version of a standard tune, but I'm not hearing it that way today. I like the pianist's very light and clean articulation – reminds me in a way of Glenn Gould. I don't know what it is, but I like it.

3 - I'll guess that the drummer or bassist is the leader. The changes in groove might be inspired by Mingus' "Three or Four Shades of Blues." Good all around.

4 - Love the writing. The distant sound and questionable piano suggest a small-label product, maybe something "local" in the best sense. The drummer's commentaries remind me of Max on Bird's "Segment."

5 - Ouch, I should know what this is. I should have this. Takes me back to Teddy Charles, Hal McKusick, John Benson Brooks. Two altos, and both of them sound a bit like Phil.

6 - As a tenor-playing friend would say, it's "totally Traned out." Not sure who it could be, unless this is a curveball and it's Rufus Harley. Possibly a recording from Europe? The drumming keeps reminding me of Arthur Taylor.

7 - If I were energetic enough to go downstairs and look through my discs for this, I'd start with Elmo Hope, with Frank Butler or Philly Joe on drums.

8 - Rhodes-y and newish and charming. The control and taste keep the drumming from being hyperactive. A responsive, tuned-in trio.

9 - Might be Jack DeJohnette's new trio with Ravi Coltrane. Then again, "You Don't Know What Love Is" isn't on their record. Is it ECM?

10 - The bassist has good things to say, then sets the groove for an interesting piece. Just when I'm hoping to hear what this group can do, somebody with a laptop decides he is right to interrupt, overtake and overwhelm. Even if there's Miles and Billie mixed in the radio-station noise, I'm not impressed. Anybody can drown a performance out with noise. I wanted construction and all I got was destruction.

11 - The blues on alto. OK, maybe better than OK.

12 - Somebody waxing nostalgic about the '80s. At the end, the noise at the beginning that I thought was surface noise is revealed to be guitars. Respect for bringing the joke off so well, but not sure how much I really care.

13 - Sounds like we're in the Contemporary studio. Maybe Bill Perkins on tenor, maybe Herb Geller on alto.

14 - "I Didn't Know What Time it Was," somewhat cocktailish but with a good swing, circa 1960.

15 - Oh, I like. The Dusty Groove blurb would say "Spiritual!"

 

A real good one, Joe! 

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Does 12 have a close-ish Bill Laswell connection?

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