bakeostrin Posted October 8, 2016 Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 One recent reissue that is jazz related on King: "The Best of Eddie Lockjaw Davis" (released on Bethlehem; reissued on Verse Japan a couple of years ago). Anyone know how Bethlehem came to release that album? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 8, 2016 Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 King bought Bethlehem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 18 hours ago, bakeostrin said: One recent reissue that is jazz related on King: "The Best of Eddie Lockjaw Davis" (released on Bethlehem; reissued on Verse Japan a couple of years ago). Anyone know how Bethlehem came to release that album? King DID buy Bethlehem, as Jim said, but somehow, Bethlehem ended up as an EMI property. So it's an even deeper mystery how this album ended up on Verve. I've just looked at Jaws' material on Discogs and there's no reference there to any album of his on either Bethlehem or Verve. Can you provide a link to somewhere with a track list etc? MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjzee Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 TMG: See the Wikipedia entry on Bethlehem Records. From the entry (full entry see here): In 1958, Bethlehem began a distributing deal with King Records. In 1962, it was sold and absorbed by King.[2] After Syd Nathan's death in 1968, King was acquired by Starday Records and relaunched as Starday and King Records. It was acquired in 1970 by Lin Broadcasting and in 1972 by Tennessee Recording & Publishing, until it ended up with the acquisition by Gusto Records in 1974. At that time, Bethlehem was purchased by the Cayre brothers' Salsoul Records, who initially intended to release its back catalog for inexpensive 8-track tapes in the 1970s. In 1993, the Bethlehem name was revived as Bethlehem Music Company, although Salsoul is often used as an imprint. It was licensed by the Verse Music Group in 2010. TMG: It's Verse, not Verve. Here's a listing for the Davis on Ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/EDDIE-LOCKJAW-DAVIS-SHIRLEY-SCOTT-the-best-of-LP-VG-BCP-6069-Bethlehem-1963-US-/350934126679 Eddie Davis Trio Eddie "Lockjaw" Davis (tenor sax) Shirley Scott (organ) Charlie Rice (drums) NYC, July 16, 1956 K8789-1 The Happy Whistler King 4966, LP 606 K8790 Scotty Roo King 5164, LP 566, LP 837; Bethlehem BCP 6069 K8791 I Need Ya King LP 566 K8792 Tia Juana King LP 566; Bethlehem 3026, BCP 6069 K8793 Blues In The Night King LP 566 K8794-1 Teach Me Tonight King 4966, LP 566 * King LP 606 Eddie Davis - Uptown* King LP 566 Eddie Davis - Jazz With A Beat* King LP 837 Various Artists - Giants Of Jazz Organ* Bethlehem BCP 6069 The Best Of Eddie "Lockjaw" Davis* Bethlehem 3026 Eddie Davis - Tia Juana / I Wished On The Moon* King 4966 Eddie Davis - The Happy Whistler / Teach Me Tonight* King 5164 Eddie Davis - Scotty Roo / Eddie's Function 1957 Eddie Davis Quintet Eddie "Lockjaw" Davis (tenor sax) Shirley Scott (organ) Carl Pruitt (bass) Charlie Rice (drums) Ray Barretto (percussion) NYC, January 22, 1957 K8832 I Wished On The Moon King LP 566; Bethlehem 3026 K8833 Speak Low King 5026, LP 566 K8834 Sheila King 5080, LP 566 K8835 Ebb Tide King LP 566, LP 837; Bethlehem BCP 6069 * King LP 566 Eddie Davis - Jazz With A Beat* King LP 837 Various Artists - Giants Of Jazz Organ* Bethlehem BCP 6069 The Best Of Eddie "Lockjaw" Davis* Bethlehem 3026 Eddie Davis - Tia Juana / I Wished On The Moon* King 5026 Eddie Davis - Speak Low / It Ain't Necessarily So* King 5080 Eddie Davis - Sheila / Say What Eddie Davis Quintet same personnel NYC, February 5, 1957 K8836 Say What King 5080, LP 566 K8837 From This Moment On King LP 599 K8838 It Ain't Necessarily So King 5026, LP 566 K8839 Eddie's Function King 5164, LP 566; Bethlehem BCP 6069 * King LP 566 Eddie Davis - Jazz With A Beat* King LP 599 Eddie Davis - Big Beat Jazz* Bethlehem BCP 6069 The Best Of Eddie "Lockjaw" Davis* King 5080 Eddie Davis - Sheila / Say What* King 5026 Eddie Davis - Speak Low / It Ain't Necessarily So* King 5164 Eddie Davis - Scotty Roo / Eddie's Function Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmonahan Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 On 10/8/2016 at 11:06 AM, Big Beat Steve said: Yes, King Jazz IS totally separate. According to Randy McNutt's "King Jazz of Cincinnati" pictorial history (a volume in the "Images of America" paperback book series), Syd Nathan founded King in 1943. I must admit I am too lazy to look details up now but in those years of the indie label boom there were quite a few labels with identical names but based in different cities that did operate in parallel (often in somewhat different areas of popular music too, which might have helped keeping them under the radar of anybody out for a lawsuit, or maybe the labels really didn't bother in many cases ) Thanks, Steve. That makes sense...well, as much sense as one *can* make of the small labels! gregmo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 2 hours ago, mjzee said: TMG: See the Wikipedia entry on Bethlehem Records. From the entry (full entry see here): In 1958, Bethlehem began a distributing deal with King Records. In 1962, it was sold and absorbed by King.[2] After Syd Nathan's death in 1968, King was acquired by Starday Records and relaunched as Starday and King Records. It was acquired in 1970 by Lin Broadcasting and in 1972 by Tennessee Recording & Publishing, until it ended up with the acquisition by Gusto Records in 1974. At that time, Bethlehem was purchased by the Cayre brothers' Salsoul Records, who initially intended to release its back catalog for inexpensive 8-track tapes in the 1970s. In 1993, the Bethlehem name was revived as Bethlehem Music Company, although Salsoul is often used as an imprint. It was licensed by the Verse Music Group in 2010. TMG: It's Verse, not Verve. Here's a listing for the Davis on Ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/EDDIE-LOCKJAW-DAVIS-SHIRLEY-SCOTT-the-best-of-LP-VG-BCP-6069-Bethlehem-1963-US-/350934126679 Eddie Davis Trio Eddie "Lockjaw" Davis (tenor sax) Shirley Scott (organ) Charlie Rice (drums) NYC, July 16, 1956 K8789-1 The Happy Whistler King 4966, LP 606 K8790 Scotty Roo King 5164, LP 566, LP 837; Bethlehem BCP 6069 K8791 I Need Ya King LP 566 K8792 Tia Juana King LP 566; Bethlehem 3026, BCP 6069 K8793 Blues In The Night King LP 566 K8794-1 Teach Me Tonight King 4966, LP 566 * King LP 606 Eddie Davis - Uptown* King LP 566 Eddie Davis - Jazz With A Beat* King LP 837 Various Artists - Giants Of Jazz Organ* Bethlehem BCP 6069 The Best Of Eddie "Lockjaw" Davis* Bethlehem 3026 Eddie Davis - Tia Juana / I Wished On The Moon* King 4966 Eddie Davis - The Happy Whistler / Teach Me Tonight* King 5164 Eddie Davis - Scotty Roo / Eddie's Function 1957 Eddie Davis Quintet Eddie "Lockjaw" Davis (tenor sax) Shirley Scott (organ) Carl Pruitt (bass) Charlie Rice (drums) Ray Barretto (percussion) NYC, January 22, 1957 K8832 I Wished On The Moon King LP 566; Bethlehem 3026 K8833 Speak Low King 5026, LP 566 K8834 Sheila King 5080, LP 566 K8835 Ebb Tide King LP 566, LP 837; Bethlehem BCP 6069 * King LP 566 Eddie Davis - Jazz With A Beat* King LP 837 Various Artists - Giants Of Jazz Organ* Bethlehem BCP 6069 The Best Of Eddie "Lockjaw" Davis* Bethlehem 3026 Eddie Davis - Tia Juana / I Wished On The Moon* King 5026 Eddie Davis - Speak Low / It Ain't Necessarily So* King 5080 Eddie Davis - Sheila / Say What Eddie Davis Quintet same personnel NYC, February 5, 1957 K8836 Say What King 5080, LP 566 K8837 From This Moment On King LP 599 K8838 It Ain't Necessarily So King 5026, LP 566 K8839 Eddie's Function King 5164, LP 566; Bethlehem BCP 6069 * King LP 566 Eddie Davis - Jazz With A Beat* King LP 599 Eddie Davis - Big Beat Jazz* Bethlehem BCP 6069 The Best Of Eddie "Lockjaw" Davis* King 5080 Eddie Davis - Sheila / Say What* King 5026 Eddie Davis - Speak Low / It Ain't Necessarily So* King 5164 Eddie Davis - Scotty Roo / Eddie's Function Thank you, Mjzee. Not in Discogs. I should have looked in Lord I must say, however, that I fail to see how Toshiba-EMI could have released the Bethlehem albums I bought in Japan in 2002. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 On 10/7/2016 at 2:14 PM, JSngry said: Most jazz fans in general do not even know abut Mosaic. Etc. I doubt that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 Oh, serious collecting jazz fans do, and maybe that's most of what's left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted October 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 It's obvious that Mosaic was begun to appeal to serious jazz fans. Nothing wrong with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 Not just serious jazz fans, but series collector jazz fans. Like I said, maybe that's all that's left. Still, I've met all kinds of people at gigs, they like jazz, they buy some records, they know some names, and they don't collect, and the really don't know about Mosaic. And, if you have a good crowd, you'll want them there. If you depend on just Mosaic-aware people to be in the house, you'll have a hip room that you can afford to buy a round of two of drinks for even if you're playing for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 On 8.10.2016 at 8:49 PM, paul secor said: Steve, I'm still waiting for some info on Ace (U.K.) buying the King archives. A good friend of mine who is more knowledgeable than I has no knowledge of this. Now you put the doubt in me. Given their reissues of King material I was assuming they were as thorough in obtaining the material as with Modern/RPM, but upon checking some CD reissues i find indeed this carries a note that the "Copyright is owned by G.M.L. Inc" so it appears they leased the recordings. So, I plead guilty to glossing over the facts and until further evidence, forget my assertion. At any rate, European reissues of King R&B and country material HAVE been plentiful right from the 80s onwards and it seems indeed so that the author of the article in the opening post was unaware of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakeostrin Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 (edited) 17 hours ago, The Magnificent Goldberg said: King DID buy Bethlehem, as Jim said, but somehow, Bethlehem ended up as an EMI property. So it's an even deeper mystery how this album ended up on Verve. I've just looked at Jaws' material on Discogs and there's no reference there to any album of his on either Bethlehem or Verve. Can you provide a link to somewhere with a track list etc? MG Yes, I did mean "Verse." That series was discussed in reissues; earlier, when the Toshiba Emi series of 100 (minus one or two unissued) appeared, the Toshiba-EMI website had pages with many albums that Toshiba did not reissue on CD, such as "Peter the Great" or the Eddie Davis. A couple years ago Verse reissued those and many more. Available for under $10 on Amazon Japan (I have no affiliation w/the sellers). Edited October 10, 2016 by bakeostrin misspell "had" clarify Toshiba earlier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 So Verse was a Toshiba-EMI label. Never heard of it. Ta. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjzee Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 Apparently, Verse is owned by BMG Rights Management. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verse_Music_Group Here's a page on BMG Rights Management: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMG_Rights_Management This was the company that was formed after BMG's music assets (the former RCA) were sold to Sony. According to this page, "In April 2016, BMG signed a distribution deal with Warner Music Group, which will cover most of BMG's catalogue and future releases; though a few albums will remain distributed by other labels." As for Toshiba-EMI, perhaps that was the distribution deal BMG had at the time in Japan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 Interesting. I kind of like the idea of BMG RM. Looked at my Toshiba-EMI CDs. Unless you can read Japanese, you can't see anything about how they got to issue these Bethlehem albums. Same for my Sonny Criss Imperials. Oh well. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted October 11, 2016 Report Share Posted October 11, 2016 On 10/9/2016 at 7:34 PM, JSngry said: Oh, serious collecting jazz fans do, and maybe that's most of what's left. That's true. The circle is getting narrower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Look at what Cleveland is doing with the R&R Hall Of Fame, they're building it out past just "Rock & roll", they're putting jazz, R&B, C&W, etc. artists in there too. I'm sure they have a stated "aesthetic" reason for this, but you also know that somebody somewhere knows that this cross-pollination of inclusion means a de facto expansion of the potential visitor pool. If Cincinnati had the unfogged brain about this, they would see a similar, if smaller, opportunity to make the whole King Records thing equally broadened in appeal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 2 hours ago, JSngry said: Look at what Cleveland is doing with the R&R Hall Of Fame, they're building it out past just "Rock & roll", they're putting jazz, R&B, C&W, etc. artists in there too. I'm sure they have a stated "aesthetic" reason for this, but you also know that somebody somewhere knows that this cross-pollination of inclusion means a de facto expansion of the potential visitor pool. If Cincinnati had the unfogged brain about this, they would see a similar, if smaller, opportunity to make the whole King Records thing equally broadened in appeal. I'm sure you're right, but what's wrong with Cincinnati or right with Cleveland? I mean, they're kind of neighbours, aren't they. Or is it just because they're so close together and Cleveland did it first? MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjzee Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 They're about 4 hours apart, driving distance. Not so close. They're also at opposite ends of Ohio: Cincinnati is on the border with Kentucky, while Cleveland is on Lake Erie. Cleveland's actually closer to Detroit, as the crow flies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 One could make a nice musical vacation tour of Memphis to Nashville to Cincinnati to Cleveland, if Cincinnati had something worth going to. Those other cities court musical tourism and are built out accordingly. Last time I was in the Cincinnatti airport (about 9 months ago), all the advertising was aimed at corporate relocations, touting the area's "affordability". Nothing wrong with that, nothing at all, affordable real estate and affordable labor always appeal. Just saying, tourism is as equally lucrative a draw, and why not? Why not be attractive to "outsiders"? Oh.... OTOH, one of the best classical radio stations I've ever heard was in Cincinnati. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjzee Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Not music, but Cincinnati has EnterTRAINment Junction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danasgoodstuff Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 1 hour ago, JSngry said: One could make a nice musical vacation tour of Memphis to Nashville to Cincinnati to Cleveland, if Cincinnati had something worth going to. Those other cities court musical tourism and are built out accordingly. Last time I was in the Cincinnatti airport (about 9 months ago), all the advertising was aimed at corporate relocations, touting the area's "affordability". Nothing wrong with that, nothing at all, affordable real estate and affordable labor always appeal. Just saying, tourism is as equally lucrative a draw, and why not? Why not be attractive to "outsiders"? Oh.... OTOH, one of the best classical radio stations I've ever heard was in Cincinnati. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati_Music_Hall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Hey, yeah, forgot about that! Noticed a few months ago how there was a window there when Erich Kunzel had a good run of showing up on any number of "jazz with orchestra" recording, the records were never(?) under his name, but he and the Cincinnatti Pops (or symphony?) were steady there. Kind of a stealth discography there, in jazz terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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