clifford_thornton

BFT 152 – November 2016 Link and Discussion

51 posts in this topic

Hello all, I've uploaded BFT 152 to SoundCloud for streaming. There are 12 tracks in all and they reflect my tastes, which as you probably know veer from the fairly straight-ahead to the abrasive and downright odd. These are all taken from original jazz/improvisation LPs in nice condition, though there are the occasional pops (most of my CDs are in boxes and not too accessible). I used a friend's MP3 turntable so I would not call these "audiophile" rips, but they do at least serve the purpose for listening and examination.

Feel free to start listening and start posting on or slightly before November 1. I'll do my best to comment and nudge people though my schedule is fairly busy. And please, of course, let me know if you have difficulty streaming and I can send the MP3s directly.

 

Edited by clifford_thornton

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Looking forward to it. I just know this is going to be an expensive listen :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mjazzg said:

 Looking forward to it. I just know this is going to be an expensive listen :)

Haha, it wasn't intended to be, but it's hard to find things that aren't well known among the organissimo community, not to mention that most of my CDs are in boxes and have been since I moved 4 years ago!

And although Homefromtheforest probably has and knows all of these albums intimately, maybe he won't spill the beans on the first day! :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the Soundcloud being right here in the thread. That's nice, makes it easy.

Early voting has already begun in some states, might as well get started here, tonight!

TRACK ONE - Not immediately known, but nevertheless familiar. Very Ornette-y, but not exactly so, something at least partially "European"? If that's not Don Cherry, why isn't it? And now a piano? The altoist, again, very Ornette-y, but not exactly so, pretty damn close, though, like he(?) had no choice inside him but to do that. John Tchichai, maybe? Now, who is the flutter-tonguing tenorist? No idea...I'd have liked more development out of the solo, solos, actually, but oh well. On the whole, I'd guess it to be late 1960s-mid-1970s at the latest. I like it, it's principled.

TRACK TWO - Last summer, I think, I went on a Brubeck binge and hit on the albums he did with Bill Smith. This could be one of those, to be honest, there's very little about them I remember specifically except for one or two cuts, none of which is this. Don't particularly care for the clarinet once it goes into straight swing. If not Bill Smith,,,not Perry Robinson, surely not? But the piano does get kinda Brubecky, so...I don't know. Drummer has Occasional Bobby Durham Disease, though, and I wouldn't wish that on anybody, friend, for, known or unknown. On the solo, though, the crispness of attack does not disqualify Morello, although...I don't think so. But one never knows...In the end, there's a lot of ways I don't like clarinet played, and this is mostly one of them, except when it's not.

TRACK THREE - Rhythm-a-ning-a-ning-a-ning-a-ning-a-ning. The beauty of improvisation is that you can get into a zone and really go places. The downside is that when you don't, there's always licks to fall back on, or, best case scenario, "vocabulary", you can hang out and be cool without really saying anything, just hang out and be cool. The reality is that a lot of times you end up with moments of inspiration and more moments of filler in between. This sounds like that, at least for the trumpet solo. The alto player is just already there, again, like he/she has no other choice. I don't hear decisions being made as much as I do instincts being acted on, and they're instincts based on a surround-sound environmental awareness. The alto player, I like. Overall, I hope everybody got out alive, but let's be real, nobody gets out alive in the end, right? I'd say the alto player stands/stood the best chance of any of them, though, he's ready to dodge and dart as needed.

TRACK FOUR - Ok, sounds like an older recording, also sounds like David Murray's interior time and nannying vibrato. Is this some Jamaican cat or something? I've run into local cats like this, they got all the ideas, their fingers are right, their swing is good, but something happens on the way out where their interior time just gets...is "hinky" the right word? They always start right and land right, but in between, it's an adventure. The pianist is definitely from the neighborhood, and so's the tenor player, but the piano player can paint with the gloss when/as/if needed,t he tenor player, again, what choice does he/she have? Definitely a slice of some lives!

TRACK FIVE - Would have liked this better if the guitarist's, hell, everybody's,  time had been more flexible. The phrasing is varied, but it's all in-line pulse-wise. It's like, when you play "free" like they do on top, and then hit time, the time's already been there, so it's really redundant to play free, if that makes any sense, and then go back to quasi-free, you're not fooling anybody. Plus the texture never really varies for a bit of a long while. My impression is one of an ongoing sense of "here now"s without every really stepping back and hitting other where the "here" really is. Maybe there's not one, and maybe that's the point. If so, point made, but...breathe, ok? Metronomes don't breathe.

TRACK SIX - Oh, I don't know, that tenor playing, either Brotz or Gary Windo? How do I not like this? And I really like that there's no drummer. Just having a drummer to have one is one more thing that can go wrong, and if nothing is going wrong, why ask for trouble?

TRACK SEVEN - Like the tenor player's sense of pacing, seems a shame that it didn't really develop, guess a studio date has to have those constraints built in. OTOH, plan and play accordingly, perhaps? Anyway...seems to me that these days, the only reason to do a vamp-based structure like this is to either work it to death for, like an hour or three, or else put stuff on top of it that counters the vamp. This to me, is kind of, not no other options inside as much as it is no real choices available. It kinda starts in one place and more or less stays there the whole while. Maybe you had to be there?

TRACK EIGHT - Writing! Honest-to-god specificity! Sounds kinda George Russell-ish, might even be him, don't know the record if it is. I like the pianist's comp, it's thinking about how there's more to a comp than just chords and groove, you can also frame with it. Jaki Byard was a master at that, Red Garland, Cecil, always. In fact, everybody sounds like they're contributing to what I said I felt was missing in #5 - an overall sense of where "there" was. Maybe not the most creative players individually, but as a group, hey, it works. More groups, please, a group can get you from all sides, whereas just having strong players leaves room for escape, and if you're bringing it to mean it, you do NOT want to let motherfuckers escape, you either scare 'em off or keep 'em in, none of this halfass shit, right?

TRACK NINE - Those were the days! And again, a little bit of writing, direction, place, specific placements. And see, unlike #7, they know that they only gonna get so much time, so they adjust/play accordingly, make a full statement, then get out. Even if it's an LP, it's still a record, like a 78, you still gotta make it happen from beginning to end, carpe diem, carpe recordum, exactly, right? Focus, control, statement, 2 minutes, 2 hours, whatever, be there to be THERE, don't be there just because that's where you woke up this mornin', ya' know, any passed out wino can wake up, dig? Don't know what the entire record this is from is like, if it's all "this", then well...um...but really, this right here, this is a record all by itself. Whoever it is...yeah, this is worth the time.

TRACK TEN - Now, this is worth listening to for me, because because there's no "Point A" that has me more or less knowing in advance what "Point B" will or will not be. There's no room to get comfortable, or worse, lazy, here, that's too easy. Both listening and playing, no room for squares, gotta keep rolling. And note how the time is not in-line, that shit breathes, picks up, pulls back, NOT a metronome. Lots of information in these few minutes, none of it accidental. "Liking" it is not the point until you can hear what "it" is, and I love it when stuff like this is not immediately apparent. I hear trombone...George Lewis?

TRACK ELEVEN - "Think On Me", rendered by a combo that might be using the Chico Hamilton groups as a model? I like the bass player, and I like where the guitar player is working to. I like the drummer well enough too. The flutist actually sounds a bit familiar, maybe? But I think that's just me having Chico Hamilton flashbacks.

TRACK TWELVE - I want to say Buddy Tate? I like the pacing, like it a lot. Not trying to play it all at once (not that that's even possible), and working with/around some core language motifs, fluidating them. It runs out of steam after while, but what doesn't? But now who's this on bari? The part of Leo Parker that didn't make it to the grave? There must be some special circumstances here? Should our gazes be averted? I want to hear the organ have some their ownself.

Thanks for ease of access, ease of listening. Didn't identify anybody, but I only do that when I can, kinda prefer it when I can't, actually, makes responding to the actual music a lot easier. Good stuff!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Jim - yeah, all of the actual players remain as yet obscured but I'm glad you took the time. And I agree, not everything here is "great" but it's all of interest to me, either historically or musically, or both.

+ sorry again for the poor quality of the MP3s. I don't generally rip my LPs and sorta had to scramble for a solution. Better solution is forthcoming but this'll at least get the job done for the BFT project.

Oh and on Track 4 you got the country right, Jim. The band is at least American and there is an oblique Murray connection to the tenorist.

1, not Tchicai but getting warmer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Drew a blank but enjoyed the initial listen to this  BFT.

Also identified George Cables 'Think On Me' on track 11 and wondering if it might have been a Chico group too. 

The free track before that one sounds like the sort of thing that Company with Derek Bailey and Paul Rutherford might have done.

The last track sounds familiar - Arnett Cobb with Wild Bill Davis?

Edited by sidewinder

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just for clarification, is there a download with this or is it online only?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Online only Tom. I'll take it down once the tracks and their sources are identified. If anyone needs MP3s I can send 'em.

Yup, it is Cables' tune but not a Chico Hamilton group.

Definitely on the right track with Company but not those particular musicians.

Nope, not Cobb/Davis. The organist is indeed excellent and gets more of a spotlight on the rest of the album.

 

Edited by clifford_thornton

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

Online only Tom. I'll take it down once the tracks and their sources are identified. If anyone needs MP3s I can send 'em.

Yup, it is Cables' tune but not a Chico Hamilton group.

Definitely on the right track with Company but not those particular musicians.

Nope, not Cobb/Davis. The organist is indeed excellent and gets more of a spotlight on the rest of the album.

 

May I have a bunch of MP3's please?

MG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is that you on #4, Allen?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is track 5 Japanese?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, clifford_thornton said:

Nope.

Oh well, another listen required. Tracks 5, 7,  9, 11 are really doing it for me, must be something about odd numbers today

9 is naggingly familiar

all round great listen, thanks for putting it together

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, JSngry said:

Is that you on #4, Allen?

Clifford, is that Allen Lowe on #4?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, JSngry said:

Clifford, is that Allen Lowe on #4?

Yessir. Missed your earlier post. He kinda gave it away but I doubt anyone would have figured it out otherwise! It's "H.W." from For Poor B.B. and Others, with Bob Neloms on piano. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would not have immediately made the association, but have heard enough of Allen's playing to have the light bulb go off immediately as soon as he commented on the track. Allen never plays the BFTs, ya' know, so when he did, and on just one cut, hey - dots connected at the service of sound, faster, even!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Won’t even attempt ID’s, will just give my impressions, and look forward to the ID and discussions on a most stimulating BFT.  This is my favorite type of BFT, where I know I will learn about a lot of music that I really like but have not been familiar with.

1 – Well, they certainly listened to “In A Silent Way” more than once.  The drummer has the Tony Williams thing down cold.

2 – Beautiful, will certainly look to add this to the collection if I don’t already own it.  What amazing control of the clarinet.

3 – Monk lives!  Great version

4 – Good, solid stuff

5 – Too loose for my tastes.  Sounds like tuning up to me.

6 – Spunky and squeaky.  Mixed feelings on it.  I like the bass a lot.

7 – Love this one!

8 – Atmospheric.  I have a lot of this sort of thing from the 50’s, and generally enjoy it quite a bit.  I like this, too, though it is of later vintage.

9 – Very busy.  Lost me around the  time of the bowed bass lead.

10 – My transmission made a noise like that right before it died.

11 – I know I’m familiar with this compostion, but not placing it at the moment.  I think an old Blue Note track.   I’ll kick myself on the ID.  I like the cut, though the guitarist has some strange tremolo and gets on my nervers (for reference, I find guys like Scofield and Fiuczynski unlistenable due to their tone).  Enjoying the bass player.

12 – Bread and butter.  What’s not to like?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

11 is 'Think On Me' (issued on this LP under a slightly different title), but it's not from a Blue Note record. The guitarist is of a somewhat earlier generation than Sco or Fiuczynski. 

1 was released before IASW came out and is not American, but I like your thinking on these.

I haven't encountered the bassist on 6 elsewhere, and agree that he sounds really good.

Glad you like 7. The entire record it's from is excellent and certainly of its era.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Track 6 is a Steve Lacy composition called "Bone," but I haven't a clue who the musicians are. I agree the bass is great on that one. Stumped on the others too, but am really enjoying every track. Track 2 in particular is great--the clarinet player sounds like Buddy DeFranco meets Philip Rehfeldt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Correct on the tune but yeah, Lacy's not on it himself. 

I really like #2 as well. The whole record it's from is really something, though the leader is pretty obscure even for me!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sorry, Jim, didn't see your follow up; but your critique was so accurate it scared me a little; one of my first recordings, I had the spirit but not quite the technique.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The first track is "Nisshimbo", the opening track of "Nu!" by Hugh Steinmetz (Debut, 1966).

What a great way to open a BFT !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.