clifford_thornton

BFT 152 – November 2016 Link and Discussion

51 posts in this topic

Yikes I just saw this bft; I'll listen tonight hopefully...should be an interesting one!

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I'm down to track 6 now: that's Evolution Ensemble Unity, a trio with Toshinori Kondo and the great Mototeru Takagi. They recorded one album ("Concrete Voices", 1976), which featured a Monk and a Lacy composition ("Bone", this track).

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Steadily progressing and now reaching track 10, which is unmistakably of the UK improv school. Plink, plonk & scratch aka "insect music". Lovely!

After checking a couple of records, I discovered that it's Ian Brighton's Balance (Incus, 1973) with Phil Wachsmann, Frank Perry and Radu Malfatti, who, at that time was still playing more than 3 notes an hour.

The cello put me on the wrong foot first, but that's Colin Wood  (Spontaneous Music Ensemble) who guests on the track "Cogito Ergo Sum".

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8 hours ago, corto maltese said:

I'm down to track 6 now: that's Evolution Ensemble Unity, a trio with Toshinori Kondo and the great Mototeru Takagi. They recorded one album ("Concrete Voices", 1976), which featured a Monk and a Lacy composition ("Bone", this track).

"Concrete Voices" is an album I've passed on buying about 3 times now over the years.  I've had an audiophile dub of a very clean LP copy for 10 years or more but I seem content with that I guess.  It's an interesting album but not one I return to many times...an interesting choice nonetheless!

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Man I just played this but my brain is fried right now after a long day of work..at least two tracks sound very familiar(as in I probably own it) but I cannot make any id or guess for that matter.  The only track that is an immediate id for me is the E.E.U track which Corto already pointed out so...I'll have to return to this again sometime this month!  Sounds good overall though...

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Corto Maltese is correct on Steinmetz, EEU and Balance!

Bit of a rough way to start the week but I'm glad people are listening to the BFT. Sorry we elected this stain.

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6 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

Corto Maltese is correct on Steinmetz, EEU and Balance!

Bit of a rough way to start the week but I'm glad people are listening to the BFT. Sorry we elected this stain.

My condolences, Clifford.

What the world needs now is music, sweet music. Your BFT can help!

Edited by corto maltese
(double)

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Thanks. It's been very hard to listen to anything the last couple of days. Blasted some Wu-Tang Clan on the way to work and that helped a little.

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2 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

Thanks. It's been very hard to listen to anything the last couple of days. Blasted some Wu-Tang Clan on the way to work and that helped a little.

If it makes you feel any better, I can remember sort of a similar shock when Reagan was elected. He mellowed out over time.

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Thanks. We're not supposed to talk politics over here I guess, but this seems like a special case...

Anyway, not sure if I should give any hints yet but I bet people are starting to figure out the theme here.

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Just to update everyone, tracks 1, 4, 6 and 10 have been correctly identified. That leaves eight more tunes.

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eight tunes I don't think I've snowball's chance in hell of identifying but I'm having fun listening to them nonetheless

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First blindtest for me on this forum and I enjoyed it very much - some great music - I might have had a few ideas for tracks 1 and 10 at one time but now that they were found, I see I had no chance. Well done Corto maltese! An occasion to learn and discover more I guess. What proportion of this music has made it once on CD? None at all?

Thank you for preparing and sharing this. Solidarity from France!

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Thanks! 

Oliver, I believe that tracks 1 and 5 (not yet guessed, although it seems to be one of the less popular cuts) are the only ones that have appeared on CD.

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  1. Nice, reminds me of Bobby Bradford and John Carter.  It sounds like a bigger group at first but I think it meant to.
  2. Makes me think of Tony Scott and Jimmy Giuffre, Tony for the drone effect and Giuffre because not many others sounded this modern on the clarinet.  
     Most later Giuffre I know is pianoless.  It could be a tenorman doubling.
  3. Instrumental Salt Peanuts that sounds like late 50s to early 60s.  Pianoless, perhaps Max Roach?
  4. Classic brawny tenor in a small group setting.  Ben Webster is my guess.
  5. Free, but not particularly "out", guitar with percussion, piano joins eventually.  Surface noice leads me away from more modern guesses like Mary Halvorsen.  Tisiji Munoz is the only avant guitarist I can think of that recorded as a leader in the period I am thinking of, although I am sure that there are dozens more.
  6. Art Ensemble of Chicago is my guess here.
  7. The dual basses remind me of Sonny Simmons Burning Spirits album, but maybe not out enough to be that.  Don't recall 'bone on that album.
  8. Progressive big band certainly makes me think of Gil Evans as a first guess.
  9. Frank Lowe is a possibility.
 10. Derek Bailey and who?  Of course Derek is one answer to the memory lapse I shared with you on #5 above.
 11. This is familiar.  For that reason I don't think it's James Newton, I haven't checked him out enough.  Oliver Lake with Michael Gregory Jackson?  Henry Threadgill?
 12. Von Freeman maybe?

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2 hours ago, randyhersom said:

  1. Nice, reminds me of Bobby Bradford and John Carter.  It sounds like a bigger group at first but I think it meant to.
  2. Makes me think of Tony Scott and Jimmy Giuffre, Tony for the drone effect and Giuffre because not many others sounded this modern on the clarinet.  
     Most later Giuffre I know is pianoless.  It could be a tenorman doubling.
  3. Instrumental Salt Peanuts that sounds like late 50s to early 60s.  Pianoless, perhaps Max Roach?
  4. Classic brawny tenor in a small group setting.  Ben Webster is my guess.
  5. Free, but not particularly "out", guitar with percussion, piano joins eventually.  Surface noice leads me away from more modern guesses like Mary Halvorsen.  Tisiji Munoz is the only avant guitarist I can think of that recorded as a leader in the period I am thinking of, although I am sure that there are dozens more.
  6. Art Ensemble of Chicago is my guess here.
  7. The dual basses remind me of Sonny Simmons Burning Spirits album, but maybe not out enough to be that.  Don't recall 'bone on that album.
  8. Progressive big band certainly makes me think of Gil Evans as a first guess.
  9. Frank Lowe is a possibility.
 10. Derek Bailey and who?  Of course Derek is one answer to the memory lapse I shared with you on #5 above.
 11. This is familiar.  For that reason I don't think it's James Newton, I haven't checked him out enough.  Oliver Lake with Michael Gregory Jackson?  Henry Threadgill?
 12. Von Freeman maybe?

Thanks, Randy. These are all good observations. A few of these have been guessed already, however:

#1 is Danish trumpeter Hugh Steinmetz leading a sextet through the tune "Nisshimbo," from his first album as a leader for Debut (Denmark), Nu!, recorded in 1966. The reedists are Karsten Vogel and Niels Harrit. 

#4 is our own Allen Lowe on tenor from his first LP as a leader, For Poor B.B. and Others, recorded in 1985 and released on his Fairhaven imprint. The tune is called "H.W." and features Bob Neloms on piano.

#6 is a Japanese group called Evolution Ensemble Unity, featuring saxophonist Mototeru Takagi, trumpeter Toshinori Kondo and bassist Morio Yoshida. It was recorded in 1976 and released via their own private label on an album called Concrete Voices. It's a cover of the Steve Lacy tune called "Bone."

#10 is a tune called "Cogito Ergo Slum" from the UK-based collective Balance, with Ian Brighton on guitar, Radu Malfatti on trombone, Phil Wachsmann on violin, Colin Wood on cello and Frank Perry on percussion. This was recorded in 1973 and released on the Incus label.

I'll throw this bone out there if it's not been figured out already, in that the Allen Lowe cut is the only one from an American ensemble though #7 does feature one American player and it's not the cellist. Track #2 is indeed led by a doubler, who plays alto in addition to clarinet. Each track represents creative music from a different country.

Edited by clifford_thornton

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The clue that each track represents creative music from a different country suggests France's Andre Jaume for #2.  The Salt Peanuts could possibly be Sweden's Bernt Rosengren.  Now for #5 we're looking for a guitarist not from US, UK, Japan or Denmark recording during the LP era.  Ireland's Christy Doran would seem to be a possibility.  

 

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Good guesses but #2 is not Jaume (nor French), and while Rosengren is a favorite of mine he's not on #3. Doran is cool and I need to listen to more of his work, but this isn't him either. But I totally get where you're coming from.

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You have me stumped on every track. I'm listening again to see if I can get at least one.

I really enjoy #2. 

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Sorry for the delay in participation. Ordinarily, I listen at work, but I can't stream there without causing major issues.

Track 1 - Love the energy of this right off the bat.  Seems older than this, but the trumpet reminds me of Rod McGaha.  Whomever it is, they are a fan of Mr. Cherry.  What I like about this is, the drums keep up their part, they don't just go crazy when others break off.  Because of that, it maintains its musicality.  Love that beefy tenor.  mjazzg had it right... this is going to be an expensive listen.

Track 2 - Really not a fan of the instrument, but this guy is for real.  I'm going to throw out a hairbrained guess of Jimmy Giuffre because every time I hear something by him, I manage to be surprised.  Like the left hand in that piano, as well.  Drummer seems to be from a different area of the music.  He's trying, but it's not quite clicking.  When it's just him, it's okay, but as part of the unit, doesn't quite click.  

Track 3 - Rhythm-a-ning.  Really difficult to hear the bass on this.  Trumpet player is working.  Alto player seems just a tick off of top tier in terms of his attack.  That's not meant as a criticism so much as an attempt to classify the player for identification.  Seems to scoop the notes a bit.  S/he is working very hard, but not getting quite the same degree of success from it as the trumpet.  Oh, there we ago -- about 5:05 s/he finds it.  No idea who this might be, but this would be a good night to be in the audience.  And, by the sounds, I would have lots of space to relax. *sigh*  Drum solo has it.  

Track 4 - Like this a lot.  Again, a tick off in terms of attack, but thoughtful, in that Frank Lowe way.  Articulation is a bit thick and chunky at times, but this cat means it.  Nothing here to not enjoy.  I can't peg these players, though.  One minute, sounds like Father Hines, the next minute, sounds like the Amazing Hasaan.  This is out of left field, and really throws me for a loop, but that bassist sounds like John Lockwood.  I should know this tenor.  That sound is too damned familiar.  

Track 5 - I had a lot of hope for this early on, but it's going in a different direction than I'd hoped. Creative and original, but my mind was ready for another direction and I feel let down.  

Track 6 - In context (as a break in a live set) I would appreciate this a lot more.  Here it just seems to be sort of out of place and part of a bigger picture.  Alone it just doesn't seem to work.  

Track 7 - I'm a sucker for bass.  Totally in on this one from the get go.  This reminds me a lot of Francois Rabbath's stuff.  I love it.  Well now, that certainly sounds like Frank Lowe.  Nope... too busy.  I'm loving it, though.  Yeah, I could listen to this all day.  'Bone seems more versed in the tradition than the rest of the band feels... hearing a lot of Curtis Fuller lines.  I love the way the piano is used here.  A distinct voice contributing to the ensemble, but not having to be a "piano".  

Track 8 - I like this, but it seems like I would like it's influence more.  Nods to Sun Ra, Kenton, and Clarke-Boland, but doesn't hit me as strong as any of them.  Interesting and obviously a top-notch band, weaving in and out of one another, but doesn't seem to quite match the creativity of those sources, somehow.  Interplay between the alto and the trombone is right there, though.  Can't figure out if this is avant gardists playing inside, or inside guys trying to be out, or what... but it doesn't feel quite right... making it quite probably European. <smile>  Oh, listen to the size of that audience!  DEFINITELY European!

Track 9 - Yeah, this one is more like it.  They're doing what I was looking for the last one to do.  I can't put it into words, but this is where it needs to be; got the feeling the last one never quite got there.  Definitely need this in my life.  

Track 10 - Less appeal in this one, but no less appreciation.  Again, live, this would be striking.  

Track 11 - Yum!  It's a doubler.  Sax is the main instrument (seems only sax players get that fat flute sound).  This reminds me a lot of Shepp's Miriamar, just has that great, organic feel to it.  All in.  Not sure who we are dealing with, but I'm getting an idea for a new project!

Track 12 - I want to like this way more than I do.  It's like if Hawk tried to play out.  Or if Frank Wright tried to play in.  Unfortunately it's neither of those things, so it's just missing for me.  I appreciate what it's wanting to do, but the execution is just not quite there.  

A variety of stuff here, most of which I want to hear again, some of which I HAVE to possess.  Thanks!

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Thanks Thom! I thought you might like this one. I'll get the reveal together in the next day or so.

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My first thought for track 3 (Monk cover) was low-grade Italian bootleg label (great concerts in horrendous sound), but that's Bernie McGann from the "Modern Jazz At Wayside Chapel" LP, a recent release of a 1966 recording by the so-called "Australasian jazz avant garde".

Tracks 7 and 9 are really naggingly familiar, but I can't put my finger on them. I'm preparing myself for shame and dishonor upon the reveal.

Edited by corto maltese
corrected track numbers

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Ah, great -- yes, you got 3 right! It's Bernie McGann with trumpeter Kim Paterson, bassist Andy Brown and George Neidorf on drums recorded in Sydney, 1966. Lovely LP!

So just to recap, tracks 1, 3, 4, 6 and 10 have been guessed. That leaves 2, 5, 7, 8, 9, 11 and 12. 

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About 12: I didn't really listen closely the first time, because I generally don't care much for organ jazz. But now I think I actually have this in my collection: I don't have my records here, but is it SoulBrass Inc. with Hans Dulfer, that live album with the fluo spray painted cover?

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