skeith Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 I have the Conn or Rare Groove or whatever it was called that came out in the 90's. I have seen on this Board or the BNBB people saying that the new RVG may have used a much better master. Does anyone know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morganized Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 I had always heard that the master tapes for this one were missing and acetate was the source for the original remaster. There was even speculation that a duplicate master existed in Japan, but I later heard that even the original TOCJ was created the same way. Hope someone can answer this definitively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 I think there will be more "educated guessing" in a week! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 Tony (Dr. J) had posted awhile ago about how the sound was terrible and how this had to be an improvement so I guess look for that to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connoisseur series500 Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 I think there will be more "educated guessing" in a week! So accurate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 The difference will be that the vinyl copy they will use to dub the RVG version will be cleaner than the one used for the previous version!!! Bertrand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrdlu Posted March 6, 2004 Report Share Posted March 6, 2004 I am very fond of all the participants on that session, but somehow this album has never really grabbed me. Do any of you guys count it as a favorite? I haven't played the older CD in awhile, but I don't recall the sound being all that bad on it. I never even noticed that it was not made directly from tape until someone pointed it out. There is an excellent version of the title track on Cal Tjader's "Hip Vibrations" LP, by the way. For me, its arrangement is even better than the original one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Burke Posted March 6, 2004 Report Share Posted March 6, 2004 I am very fond of all the participants on that session, but somehow this album has never really grabbed me. I completely agree, though the cover is still on my wall due to the fact that my all-time favorite BN cover girl is on the front.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted March 6, 2004 Report Share Posted March 6, 2004 I completely agree, though the cover is still on my wall due to the fact that my all-time favorite BN cover girl is on the front.... Careful, Brandon. The lady is Mrs. Betty Pearson. She married Duke P. shortly after the album cover photo was taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parkertown Posted March 6, 2004 Report Share Posted March 6, 2004 I'd definitely call this one a favorite. I have the TOCJ. Always gets the toes a'tappin'. It also kinda has that Austin Powers, Swinging London in the 60's feel about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parkertown Posted March 6, 2004 Report Share Posted March 6, 2004 And if this TOCJ was dubbed from an LP, I sure can't tell! Sounds top notch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch head Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 I don't have anything to compare the RVG with, but on a quick first listen, I can hear the vinyl a-cracklin', especially on the first track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgraham333 Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 ...I can hear the vinyl a-cracklin', especially on the first track... Please tell us you were eating Rice Krispies at the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardbopjazz Posted March 11, 2004 Report Share Posted March 11, 2004 The sound on this RVG is so much better then the rare grooves from the mid 1990's. I believe the masters were still lost. Maybe technology has increased and this helped in enhancing the sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert h. Posted March 11, 2004 Report Share Posted March 11, 2004 The story seems to be that the master tapes are long lost. and not even an EQ'd cutting master exists. The TOCJ is from vinyl. RVG did a remastering, also from vinyl, for the Japanese RVG series, Michael Cuscuna was so blown away by it that he decided to release it in the US. So - all CD versions are from vinyl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son-of-a-Weizen Posted March 11, 2004 Report Share Posted March 11, 2004 The difference will be that the vinyl copy they will use to dub the RVG version will be cleaner than the one used for the previous version!!! Bertrand. You mean that still matters? They don't use one of those $20k laser TTs on the vinyl? http://www.elpj.com/about/needle.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgraham333 Posted March 11, 2004 Report Share Posted March 11, 2004 I've listened to this one several times on both my home and office systems and if I didn't know, it would be tough for me to guess this had been mastered from vinyl - and nothing annoys me more than "snap, crackle, pop." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJ Posted March 13, 2004 Report Share Posted March 13, 2004 If the RVG was remastered from vinyl - and the sonic characteristics still have me suspicious it may have been - they did a fantastic job removing surface noise of any kind. Some was audible on the old U.S. version which I've now sold back, but I don't hear anything of the sort yet on the RVG. That said, I haven't had a chance to do a listen on my own system at home. FWIW, the RVG also sounds better in other ways - more fullbodied, better bass, etc. Nice job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrdlu Posted March 13, 2004 Report Share Posted March 13, 2004 I got curious and dug out the old U.S. CD. My remarks above are way off and do not do this session justice. This is another example of an album arriving and not being listened to properly - probably because several other things arrived at the same time - and then getting set aside. Many of you know all about that, I'm sure. Anyway, THIS time, I found a very enjoyable album, with a great vibe throughout; good, tasty compositions; very nice arranging, and fine solos. It's the kind of record that you want to hear again when it's over. After the comments about the use of an LP, I listened, and yes, there is the occasional audible scratch, but the LP they used was in NM condition, and it's not a problem for me. The sound on the old CD (engineer not mentioned) is terrific as far as I'm concerned, and I won't be getting the new CD. There's plenty of bass and treble, and the presence is fine. But, obviously, as the old CD is out of print, I'm glad that the album has been reissued. It deserves to be available. Duke Pearson is tops with me. With James Spaulding present, the album has moments that remind me of Bobby Hutcherson's "Patterns" (that ethereal quality), and "After The Rain" is a gem in the manner of Pearson's other tune "Say Your Mine" (on the "Phantom" album and in the Mosaic Select set). There's even a bass solo by Ron Carter on one track! It must be at least the third Carter solo that I've heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morganized Posted March 13, 2004 Report Share Posted March 13, 2004 I got curious and dug out the old U.S. CD. My remarks above are way off and do not do this session justice. This is another example of an album arriving and not being listened to properly - probably because several other things arrived at the same time - and then getting set aside. Many of you know all about that, I'm sure. Anyway, THIS time, I found a very enjoyable album, with a great vibe throughout; good, tasty compositions; very nice arranging, and fine solos. It's the kind of record that you want to hear again when it's over. After the comments about the use of an LP, I listened, and yes, there is the occasional audible scratch, but the LP they used was in NM condition, and it's not a problem for me. The sound on the old CD (engineer not mentioned) is terrific as far as I'm concerned, and I won't be getting the new CD. There's plenty of bass and treble, and the presence is fine. But, obviously, as the old CD is out of print, I'm glad that the album has been reissued. It deserves to be available. Duke Pearson is tops with me. With James Spaulding present, the album has moments that remind me of Bobby Hutcherson's "Patterns" (that ethereal quality), and "After The Rain" is a gem in the manner of Pearson's other tune "Say Your Mine" (on the "Phantom" album and in the Mosaic Select set). There's even a bass solo by Ron Carter on one track! It must be at least the third Carter solo that I've heard. Oh Boy, I have been waiting for this one. Glad to hear the positive reviews. I had heard about the dubbing before and had always wondered, but Duke Pearson is one of my favorites so I am sure that will not deter me in this instance, especially since it does not appear to be a problem for anyone thus far. Shurdlu, I can certainly relate to your relisten review. That has happened to me on several occasions. Sometimes I think I am just not in sync with that particular style at the time of the first listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davef Posted March 14, 2004 Report Share Posted March 14, 2004 I could certainly hear some vinyl artifacts when listening today, but it does sound better than the old CD IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Posted March 15, 2004 Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 I received the CD today and listened to it closely with headphones. Some occasional clicks can be heard, but they sound more like static tape clicks, shorter and treblier than LP clicks. I think this CD has indeed been indeed made from vinyl, but a noise reduction process must have been used, eliminating the normal constant vinyl surface noise and reducing the loudest clicks to very short almost inaudible bursts. How could it be that the quietest track (track 3) has the least noise? But this hasn't done any bad to the naturalness of the sound. Maybe the piano on that track sounds a bit muffled compared to the other tracks, and generally there is a certain overall veil over the sound. But it's very acceptable for me who hates artificially processed remasterings (Sonic Solutions, NoNoise and the like). The LP used seems have been mint, because no distortion can be heard on louder passages, except the ensemble playing on track 6 and the usual tape overload present on most 60's RVG recordings. All in all, not an audiophile CD, but excellent restoration and most importantly, one of the best Duke Pearson sessions (together with "Wahoo") back on CD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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