Hey Kids, Have You Heard The News? MOSAIC's IN TROUBLE!!!

[BFrank]

It's been interesting watching Resonance releases the past couple of years. They're definitely following some of the Mosaic model but with smaller, more focused and affordable sets.

[Dan Gould]

5 hours ago, BFrank said:

It's been interesting watching Resonance releases the past couple of years. They're definitely following some of the Mosaic model but with smaller, more focused and affordable sets.

I was going to list out the two models but I'll just throw it back at you: what exactly makes you think Resonance is following a part of the Mosaic model?  And what exactly constitutes "smaller more focused affordable sets" when they basically issue archival recordings, one CD's worth, with exhaustive liners.

The exhaustive liners, and assumed dedication to sound, are about the only things similar between Resonance and Mosaic.

[Hot Ptah]

On the other hand, I sent Mosaic an email from the link on their site and suggested a Chu Berry set. I received a positive reply email. Within a few years there was a Chu Berry set.

if there had been a forum with polling, that set would never have been a top vote getter. That is part of the charm and vision of Mosaic over the years, to undertake projects which led their fans into something they would not have thought of pursuing. It worked for many years because they did not have a traditional.business website but went their own way instead.

i think that Mosaic's current woes reflect the diminishing sales of music on physical objects. 

Edited June 29, 2017 by Hot Ptah

[jazzbo]

This is a great point. Mosaic started off as the little record company that could where the big labels couldn't. It worked for a long while. And the mission made sense for a long while. Now the whole industry has experienced a huge change and Mosaic is swept along with the waves of change, less structurally sound to weather as is. 

I think most of the mission is accomplished, a lot more than when a certain president stood on an aircraft carrier deck and made a proclamation. One original owner is gone, the other has slowed down other efforts outside of the label and is of a retirement age. The company is not a little independent any longer, and yet being half-owned by a major still doesn't help them morph into a 21st century company offering non-physical products. It's no shame if it doesn't go much further forward, I'll still treasure my many sets and view the company as a fond favorite.

Edited June 29, 2017 by jazzbo
typo damnit

[Scott Dolan]

Excellent post, Lon. 

I think if any company has earned the right to say, "our work here is done", it's Mosaic. 

[Brad]

I don't know if their work is done because if they felt that way, then they'd close their doors.  However, the era of the cd appears to be on the decline and the Jazz collector is graying.  I'm not sure they're replacing us with newer blood, although I'm happy to be proven wrong.  

[Scott Dolan]

But it's hard to walk away from a passion project. 

All I'm saying is that they've earned the right to say as much. Not that they have/want/need to. 

There's also denial. And they've earned the right to that as well. 

[Brad]

True that!

[jazzbo]

I don't want them to end, I share their passion. I've bought every set in their catalog for a decade with the exception of vinyl Miles Davis sets that I now wish I HAD bought. And own most of the sets from the previous catalog of the label. I'll support them til I can no longer if they are around to support. I hope they are.

[king ubu]

1 hour ago, jazzbo said:

I don't want them to end, I share their passion. I've bought every set in their catalog for a decade with the exception of vinyl Miles Davis sets that I now wish I HAD bought. And own most of the sets from the previous catalog of the label. I'll support them til I can no longer if they are around to support. I hope they are.

Same here ... except I let a few sets slip by in the past years (including, alas, the Venuti/Lang).

[Rooster_Ties]

4 hours ago, jazzbo said:

I think most of the mission is accomplished...

Probably, yes.  But yet, I know there have been countless theoretical "proposed" Mosaic sets discussed here (and surely elsewhere).  I'm sure I could easily come up with every specific ideas for 10 sets I'd personally buy myself, and another 10 I'd at least be tempted to buy.  (None of which are probably the least bit commercially viable now -- and may have never been, perhaps, either -- even if they'd been more seriously contemplated 15-20 years ago.

A hell of a damn LOT of their mission was certainly accomplished, but I'd say that if market demand (and market forces) were difference, they could have been as much as TWICE as many sets that could have been produced (total) -- meaning AGAIN as many yet unproduced, as has been Mosaic's entire output to date.

That is in NO way meant to be a criticism (in any way, shape, or form).  Not suggesting for an instant that any "in our wildest dreams" sets were ever really possible.  But in a different universe, where there was many twice as much interest in jazz overall (among the general populace), coupled with a continued interest in buying things on physical media (like CD's), one could certainly conceive of any number of great sets that 'could have been'.

[miles65]

3 hours ago, Brad said:

I don't know if their work is done because if they felt that way, then they'd close their doors.  However, the era of the cd appears to be on the decline and the Jazz collector is graying.  I'm not sure they're replacing us with newer blood, although I'm happy to be proven wrong.  

Twice a year I go to the Doctor Jazz meeting at Wageningen. At 54 I'm one of the youngest collectors there. 

 

[JSngry]

I would like to know what the problem/"problem" was with a Bill Barron set. Licensing issues? No photos on hand? An overriding mandate to get a Rosemary Clooney set out?

Bill Barron could have been their 21st Century Tina Brooks, except that there couldn't be the follow-up of single album Blue Note reissues.

Oh well, some Andulursian guy named Jordgie or something will work with what's already been done and put it all together for, like, $5.95, $4.95 if you pay with cash or Bitcoin.

[paul secor]

Unfortunately, I don't imagine that there's enough interest in a Bill Barron box to make it commercially viable. So that's where old style "hunting and gathering" comes in.

[jazzbo]

2 hours ago, Rooster_Ties said:

Probably, yes.  But yet, I know there have been countless theoretical "proposed" Mosaic sets discussed here (and surely elsewhere).  I'm sure I could easily come up with every specific ideas for 10 sets I'd personally buy myself, and another 10 I'd at least be tempted to buy.  (None of which are probably the least bit commercially viable now -- and may have never been, perhaps, either -- even if they'd been more seriously contemplated 15-20 years ago.

A hell of a damn LOT of their mission was certainly accomplished, but I'd say that if market demand (and market forces) were difference, they could have been as much as TWICE as many sets that could have been produced (total) -- meaning AGAIN as many yet unproduced, as has been Mosaic's entire output to date.

That is in NO way meant to be a criticism (in any way, shape, or form).  Not suggesting for an instant that any "in our wildest dreams" sets were ever really possible.  But in a different universe, where there was many twice as much interest in jazz overall (among the general populace), coupled with a continued interest in buying things on physical media (like CD's), one could certainly conceive of any number of great sets that 'could have been'.

I hear you. . . but that universe doesn't exist. In the first bloom of my manic collecting in the 'eighties I might have thought so as the compact disc ramp up included the reissue of so many titles. . . but this century jazz returns to unpopularity it seems, and even less so for me when I have moved from Austin to rural North East Ohio. In my day to day life I don't encounter anyone in person who has a passion for any of the music I have a passion for. It's  hard to even imagine a universe where Mosaic profited and prospered.

[Scott Dolan]

That's been my experience as well. I've not met anyone with an appreciation for Jazz since we've moved to Missouri. 

Funny story: When we lived in Florida, the Charlotte County Jazz Society used to have an open jam session every Sunday afternoon at a local club. They essentially rented the place out for a few hours, and it was only Jazz fans, and members of the Society, that attended. Well, once I found out about it, my wife and I decided we were going! 

So, we walk inside and it's blue hair city. We were the youngest people there by multiple decades almost across the board. We stood out like a sore thumb. As we're sitting at the bar waiting for the session to start, this elderly black cat strolled over, shook our hands, and introduced himself. He had this look on his face of, "I hate to be the  bearer of bad news", and then explained that this wasn't the usual scene and that it was a jam session for the Jazz Society. 

I said, "oh, yeah! That's exactly what we came for!" 

He looked stunned. He profusely apologized and said, "we just never get people here your age!" Come to find out, he was actually the President of the Society. Became good friends with both he and his wife, while attending MANY jam sessions throughout the rest of the time we lived there. 

Unfortunately, I'm in the camp that doesn't believe for one second that older Jazz fans are being replaced with younger Jazz fans. Or at least the gain/loss ratio is HEAVILY skewed in the loss category. Hell, think about it. I'm 47, and likely one of the youngest posters here! 

[JSngry]

You can still find a sub-set of young music fans who include jazz in their regimen. But the fallout of the whole Neo-Con movement has been that today, unless people have a very, very specific personal agenda in mind, being a dedicated jazz fan, is either relevant or appealing. As far as appreciating the value of music overall, that's a good thing. As it pertains to really understanding the specifics of any musical language past a superficial level....my jury is still out, perhaps a mistrial will be called. Or hung jury.

[gmonahan]

Yeah, I'm kind of an old guy too. And yet, jazz does seem to be flourishing among high school and college students in a large number of programs around the country. I wonder whether it isn't more a question of format. Most of us here (all of us?!) are into "physical media"--cds and vinyl--while the world has obviously switched to downloads. I just wonder where those younger jazz players "go" to talk about music. As for Mosaic, they need to stay in business till we get that damned Johnny Hodges 60s Verve set.......

 

 

gregmo

[JSngry]

Yeah, that's another one!

[Scott Dolan]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

You can still find a sub-set of young music fans who include jazz in their regimen. But the fallout of the whole Neo-Con movement has been that today, unless people have a very, very specific personal agenda in mind, being a dedicated jazz fan, is either relevant or appealing. As far as appreciating the value of music overall, that's a good thing. As it pertains to really understanding the specifics of any musical language past a superficial level....my jury is still out, perhaps a mistrial will be called. Or hung jury.

???

The Neo Con movement, as you call it, is all about lionizing the exact same styles of Jazz that is discussed here 99% of the time. Does that make us members of said movement?

 

[JSngry]

Nah, that's not what it was about. It was about taking ownership of a tradition and freezing it in place so that the ownership could then own/control the product.

It wasn't just jazz, either. Nashville's done it, Broadway's done it, Rock's done it, it's the American Way.

[Scott Dolan]

So they own Swing? BeBop? Post-Bop? Isn't that akin to saying tribute bands own the music of the group they're paying tribute to? I guess I'm not following what you're saying very well. 

[HutchFan]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

Nah, that's not what it was about. It was about taking ownership of a tradition and freezing it in place so that the ownership could then own/control the product.

It wasn't just jazz, either. Nashville's done it, Broadway's done it, Rock's done it, it's the American Way.

Really insightful, Jim.  Right on.

 

1 hour ago, Scott Dolan said:

So they own Swing? BeBop? Post-Bop? Isn't that akin to saying tribute bands own the music of the group they're paying tribute to? I guess I'm not following what you're saying very well. 

Scott -- I think Jim's talking about the "commodification" of music.  Packaging it and (usually) sterilizing it, so it can be sold in massive quantities.

Honestly, I think the fact that "the majors" completely ignore jazz is one of the reasons that the music itself is so vital.  Musicians aren't under any pressure to sell and produce "product" because there's absolutely no "market" for what they're doing.

This hasn't always been the case.  In the 70s, jazz musicians were under pressure to make fusion records that would sell in large quantities. In the 80s, the pressure was to put on suits & ties and perform in a narrow area of the enormously wide jazz spectrum. These were market pressures.

Now, from what I see, I don't think there's pressure on artists to make any particular kind of music.  It's ironic.  Because only music-lovers are paying attention, musicians are free to make any kind of music that they desire. That's why there's so much diversity now.  People who are primarily interesting in making money and "moving product" aren't even in the picture.

Or at least that's how I think about it. 

[BFrank]

8 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

I was going to list out the two models but I'll just throw it back at you: what exactly makes you think Resonance is following a part of the Mosaic model?  And what exactly constitutes "smaller more focused affordable sets" when they basically issue archival recordings, one CD's worth, with exhaustive liners.

The exhaustive liners, and assumed dedication to sound, are about the only things similar between Resonance and Mosaic.

To flesh out my thought, I was thinking about their attention to detail (packaging, liner notes, remastering) for finding and issuing historic recordings appeals to the same audience that Mosaic appeals to. 

[Dan Gould]

1 hour ago, BFrank said:

To flesh out my thought, I was thinking about their attention to detail (packaging, liner notes, remastering) for finding and issuing historic recordings appeals to the same audience that Mosaic appeals to. 

OK, I think of that as the space that Uptown had to itself.