JSngry

Hey Kids, Have You Heard The News? MOSAIC's IN TROUBLE!!!

1,188 posts in this topic

@Dan Gould et al. re-downloads or not: No need to try again. It is clear that Mosaic have NOT been in the market for downloads. So the point of the original discussion with Justin V still is this: The alleged unavailabilty or OOP character of a body of music as a criterion for the worthiness of a reissue project cannot be compared with the "availability" as downloads (cf. Savory). I'd still bet downloads are not the preferred form of "in-print" music to the majority of typical Mosaic customers and comparisons with "download" availability therefore are pointless. So ...  if somebody has to try again it is not me but Justin V. ;)
And I am a bit surprised that my description of Mosaic going for downloads was seen as anything but purely theoretical/hypothetical in this context by anybody here. ;)

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1 hour ago, J.A.W. said:

As far as I know they thought about it, but since no rights holders would allow it it's irrelevant.

Not to be argumentative but the point I was trying to make was that what makes Mosaics special are the book and the box (not to mention the music) and you would lose that with downloads (if downloads were an option). 

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4 minutes ago, Brad said:

Not to be argumentative but the point I was trying to make was that what makes Mosaics special are the book and the box (not to mention the music) and you would lose that with downloads (if downloads were an option). 

Totally agreed.

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Agree regarding booklet and overall presentation. 

For me the sets which demonstrate why Mosaic are important are the sets with added value. By that I mean sets that draw together an artist across various labels ( eg Serge Chaloff) , the output of a label ( HRS, Beehive etc) , rare stuff ( any early Mosaic such as Herbie Nichols) , a fair amount of unreleased material (Hill Select, 2nd Hodges & plenty of others) . These for me define what is great about Mosaic

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31 minutes ago, Brad said:

Not to be argumentative but the point I was trying to make was that what makes Mosaics special are the book and the box (not to mention the music) and you would lose that with downloads (if downloads were an option). 

My point exactly - all along.

2 minutes ago, Clunky said:

Agree regarding booklet and overall presentation. 

For me the sets which demonstrate why Mosaic are important are the sets with added value. By that I mean sets that draw together an artist across various labels ( eg Serge Chaloff) , the output of a label ( HRS, Beehive etc) , rare stuff ( any early Mosaic such as Herbie Nichols) , a fair amount of unreleased material (Hill Select, 2nd Hodges & plenty of others) . These for me define what is great about Mosaic

Agreed too. Although some of the HRS has been available for a long time in other forms (Riverside ...) this set draws together items that to a large extent are off the beaten tracks of the "obvious" names and therefore fills a gap. Which is a bit more than what can be said of some "big name" sets such as the recent Teddy Wilson set (cf. Hep CDs), for example, great as though it undoubtedly is thanks to the Mosaic treatment.

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In the meantime, the Bee Hive set left the website. 

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really don't know how Steve could be misunderstood... in my view, the Savory set is far more attractive:

Savory: this is core material to pretty much any jazz fan. Some of it was previously available in a format nobody prefers. Don't think there is a "download generation". There was only a short moment in history when record companies tried to get high-priced downloads to work before streaming took over.

Beehive: I like what I've heard. What I've heard, I've heard from the original LPs which are usually available in the 2-6 Euro range (huge difference to the Tina Brooks BNs). Wouldn't even say that original LPs are my preferred format, but I do like to get to know the individual albums one by one. Plus: From what I can tell, these are nice albums but they're not Lester with Basie. They're not even Sam Noto Xanadus.

Edited by Niko

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and they for damn sure ain't Bill Barron.

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3 hours ago, Niko said:

really don't know how Steve could be misunderstood... in my view, the Savory set is far more attractive:

Savory: this is core material to pretty much any jazz fan. Some of it was previously available in a format nobody prefers. Don't think there is a "download generation". There was only a short moment in history when record companies tried to get high-priced downloads to work before streaming took over.

Beehive: I like what I've heard. What I've heard, I've heard from the original LPs which are usually available in the 2-6 Euro range (huge difference to the Tina Brooks BNs). Wouldn't even say that original LPs are my preferred format, but I do like to get to know the individual albums one by one. Plus: From what I can tell, these are nice albums but they're not Lester with Basie. They're not even Sam Noto Xanadus.

That’s selling this set a bit short.  The Nick Brignola sessions, for example, are outstanding. 

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I view this set as a time capsule of the late 70s/early 80s US scene. These type of releases were formative to my early listening so there’s a certain sentimental value, having bought e.g. the Curtis Fuller when it first came out. I have a fair number of them on vinyl but wouldn’t want to be without this fine Mosaic box.

Agree that the Brignola sessions are outstanding.

Edited by sidewinder

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2 hours ago, sidewinder said:

I view this set as a time capsule of the late 70s/early 80s US scene. These type of releases were formative to my early listening so there’s a certain sentimental value, having bought e.g. the Curtis Fuller when it first came out. I have a fair number of them on vinyl but wouldn’t want to be without this fine Mosaic box.

Agree that the Brignola sessions are outstanding.

Another thumbs up for the Brignola sessions ....

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13 hours ago, David Ayers said:

In the meantime, the Bee Hive set left the website. 

I wonder: did Jazzmessenger seize the opportunity and order a handful ......

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4 hours ago, soulpope said:

Another thumbs up for the Brignola sessions ....

Yes! And the Ronnie Mathews sessions, as well. Overall, it's a very fine set. 

Edited by John Tapscott

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On 5/1/2018 at 7:41 AM, John Tapscott said:

Yes! And the Ronnie Mathews sessions, as well. Overall, it's a very fine set. 

Ronnie Mathews is what I keep replaying on this set, but there are so many things well done on this box that it is easy to overlook, say, Arnett Cobb's session.

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On 18.4.2018 at 11:56 PM, JSngry said:

That Bill Barron set will give them good cash flow, when it comes.

Seriously, I doubt there will ever be one. The reasons:

bill-barron-quintet-sextet-3-lps-on-2-cd

https://www.freshsoundrecords.com/bill-barron-albums/5706-bill-barron-quintet-sextet-3-lps-on-2-cds.html

west-side-story-bossa-nova.jpg

https://www.freshsoundrecords.com/bill-barron-albums/2218-west-side-story-bossa-nova.html

now-hear-this.jpg

https://www.freshsoundrecords.com/bill-barron-ted-curson-orchestra-albums/1622-now-hear-this.html

Say what you will about Pujol - he did reissue some Bill Barron!

Edited by mikeweil

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Yes, but, I want something that I will pay for because it has been paid for. Does anybody really buy Fresh Sounds "reissues"?

And - Motivation. Who's done that yet? Nobody?

 

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I’m not sure what you mean by the above post about Fresh Sounds. Although some of their early stuff may have been questionable, their more recent stuff hasn’t been. I believe their recent Lucky Thompson box won an award. 

Edited by Brad

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Well, good for that award and good for the people who gave it.

I get Fresh Sounds "reissues", but I don't pay for them. And I seriously doubt that their Bill Barron product was paid for, so we're even on that count.

Mosaic can do more/better with Bill Barron than Fresh Sounds could ever scheme to. Motivation + the Muse dates + Savoy + all those other things, hell yeah, Mosaic.

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I’m sure the sound of “West Side Story” and “Now hear this” could both be improved on as recall the transfers sounding a bit grating.

It’s his Savoy dates and any unissued Muse material that would interest me most. 

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Now if Mosaic could only find and release some unreleased Coltrane I'm sure they'd find lots of takers and considerable media interest...

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Have you heard? There's a recently discovered session coming out very soon. You heard it here first!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Just a thought or two.

One of the major reasons (imho) Mosaic got into trouble is because they simply don't go with the times. I just had to pay an additional $50 (on top of the usual, expected and accepted European import fees) because Mosaic, ever since I started ordering ages ago, is too fu*king lazy to affix the bill to the package. This past month I received 12 (!!) packages from the US (without any problems!) and Mosaic's is the only (!) one that incurred this fee (problems every single time ever since I started ordering from them ages ago).

What, a plastic pouch with the bill is too fu*king expensive?
Really?
Too much trouble?

I was sent a photo copy of the box my two Mosaic sets were in and visibly, they declare absolutely f*cking nothing.
And I mean  ... nothing.
Zero value, zero information, absolutely nothing.

Zip.
Zilch.
Zero.
Nada.
Nothing.

There might be Trump's toxic urine in the package or Osama Bin Ladin's rotting and seaweed-infested corpse. 

If you do business this way, you are doomed to fail.

I will never order from Mosaic again, out of principle.
And not from a European importer that fixes Mosaic's total negligence either.

I have enough money, but to insular companies whose world view (and experience/customer care) stops at their local state's border(s) because it doesn't matter to them one bit, I'd rather not give my money.

What the hell does it help to pour your lifeblood into putting out fabulous releases (and Mosaic is fantastic in this respect) if you can't get a grip on the (international) business end of things? I have kept many of the shipment boxes for years that Mosaic sent my stuff in and they never ... ever ...  adhered to any of my country's (=all of Europe) custom regulations.

I often wonder why really everyone (!!!) else can.
And, just for good measure, three more exclamation marks.
!!!

 

P.S: Because I know from past experience that comments like these get blasted out of the water, a quick summary of the past 4 weeks. Every single one of the items below (which were often more pricey than what I ordered from Mosaic) was processed both by the German post office AND by the same customs office north of here):

  1. I ordered an expensive collector's box from a single-person second hand dealer in Chicago ... no problems (processed, delivered, paid for at the door).
  2. I ordered a backpack from a dealer in Minnesota ... no problems (processed, delivered, paid for at the door).
  3. I ordered a very rare and expensive turntable head/needle from a great (!) guy in San Francisco ... no problems (processed, delivered, paid for at the door).
  4. I ordered a transformer for an old Marantz amp from a guy in Connecticut ... no problems (processed, delivered, paid for at the door).
  5. I ordered a shitload of Siegel-Schwall releases through a friend of mine in San Fancisco (processed, delivered, paid for at the door).
  6. ...
  7. ... get the picture? ...

 

I ordered a Teddy Wilson set and the Savory Collection from Mosaic. Two measly items.

So far, three mails, two letters and absolutely nothing (!!!) but trouble. Right now, I'm thinking of having the package returned and writing the money off.

Let the guys at Mosaic drink 120 liters of expensive coffee (on me, and they deserve it just for their stellar releases) ...

... and then forget about them.

---

[/end rant]
 

 



 

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I believe that Mosaic employs a third party to mail its packages.  

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54 minutes ago, Brad said:

I believe that Mosaic employs a third party to mail its packages.  

They farmed this out years ago. It’s been a major disfunction ever since. 

I suppose if neveronfriday knew this, he’d not have gone on his xenophobic tirade, since American customers have experienced multiple problems with them as well. 

Edited by Scott Dolan

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