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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/09/magazine/the-intimacy-behind-jazzs-seminal-image.html?_r=0

I'm not a fan of Geoff Dyer's writing (although I am a big fan of Roy DeCarava's photographs), and I don't agree with or buy into everything in this article - including the title - I think that it's worth reading and that certain points in it are worth thinking about.

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I don't know about others out there but I  for one found Ben Webster instantly recognizable.

I cannnot see the point about technical shortcomings of the pic. There are pictures that are INTENTIONALLY taken that way and the blurriness or graininess serves a purpose, whereas others are "composed" - no need to belittle Herman Leonard's photographs, though - they create an aura and a feel very much of their own and DO capture an essence IMO of how the musicans saw themselves ("sharp" is the word - or one of them) and wanted to be seen. But by the criteria that this scribe seeems to apply, certain pictures by Ed van der Elsken, Hanns E. Haehl or Karlheinz Fürst (to name just a few who operated with graininess or blurriness in jazz settings) would be technically faulty too.

About the intimacy and "third-class(?) citiizen" thing: Does the author actually think, by analogy, then, a white photographer snapping a pic of two white persons (celebs or not) falling into each other's arms just like that (such photographs do exist) would therefore have come up with a "first-class citizen" photograph just because he moves in "white" circles? Linking the closeness of such pics to social status in my humble opinion is BS.

In short, this is a thought-provoking piece but IMO he forces too much (allleged) meaning into a pic that just documents a glimpse of a moment and can (and probably should, if the photogrpaher had his say) be interpreted in numerous different ways dictated just by the imagination of those who let hte pic act on them.

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I love that picture but I gotta say I hate that article, which takes its time in saying very little.

It's a great picture because it is so damn touching - and it depends not on the art of its framing - I don't think technically it's a very good picture - but on its subjects. It's like if I took a random snapshot - and the subject turned out to be Bird. Anyone else would lose our interest - but it's Bird! so we are fascinated even if the pose, background, etc. are completely unremarkable, even banal (which, by the way, is very interesting to consider when we take up arguments of form and content, or when we battle over the question of 'pure aesthetics').

The picture is just amazing because these two musical giants so clearly love each other - and also, it helps to know (as Dyer appears to have no clue) that Webster was a great supporter of progressive musical movements (Dave Schildkraut once showed me a note, handwritten and signed by Webster, that had been passed to him in a club, that said something like "keep on doing it!").

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"It is unlikely ever to be used to decorate the walls of jazzy bars in the way that Herman Leonard’s seductively smoky photographs regularly did in the 1990s." 

"Jazzy bars"? What is Mr. Dyer thinking of? OTOH, if there are many or any jazzy bars, it seems likely that that is where Dyer spends a lot of his time.

IIRC, one famous Leonard image (of Fats Navarro and Allen Eager with Tadd Dameron at the Royal Roost?)  is or was on the wall of a well-known jazz venue (don't recall which one, someone probably will), but I'm pretty sure that it was installed there well before the 1990s.

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3 hours ago, Larry Kart said:

"It is unlikely ever to be used to decorate the walls of jazzy bars in the way that Herman Leonard’s seductively smoky photographs regularly did in the 1990s." 

"Jazzy bars"? What is Mr. Dyer thinking of? OTOH, if there are many or any jazzy bars, it seems likely that that is where Dyer spends a lot of his time.
 

Well, over here I have seen the "smoke-ringy" Dexter Gordon photo by Herman Leonard in SEVERAL clubs/bars - not ONE of which was deeply jazz-connected. It was just about "stylish" decoration (maybe what the owners figured was "jazzy"?), that's all - probably also spurred by the fact that this pic had been on the market in the poster section of various gift shops. This was indeed back in the late 80s/early 90s, and while (being familiar with Leonard's work, not least of all through his "Oeil du Jazz" book published by Filipacchi in France) I liked seeing that pic there at the same time this grated me somewhat because it was obvious hardly anybody else among the usual flock of patrons in this type of clubs had ANY clue what this pic was all about.

Edited by Big Beat Steve
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I have that book and can't find that photograph in it!  Anyone know what page it's on?  (I have the 2001 Phaidon edition with no index or ids.) 

Many of DeCarava's photos are technically similar. And yes, hard not to id Big Ben. 

Edited by medjuck
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1 hour ago, medjuck said:

I have that book and can't find that photograph in it!  Anyone know what page it's on?  (I have the 2001 Phaidon edition with no index or ids.) 

 

See below. Page 54/55 in the 1985 edition by Filipacchi. No idea if other publishers' editions have the same layout.

29196991to.jpg

 

 

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I agree with those that didn't like this article. I didn't care for it in any way, and I didn't learn anything interesting from it aside from the mention of the Ben Webster and Dexter Gordon documentary, which i haven't heard of prior to reading it. Social Justice angle seems to be almost a requirement for any culturally-related article these days. 

 

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2 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

See below. Page 54/55 in the 1985 edition by Filipacchi. No idea if other publishers' editions have the same layout.

29196991to.jpg

 

 

I meant the Decarava book. (I actually have a copyof te DExter photo signed by Leonard.  I expect that there are thousands of them. 

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13 hours ago, medjuck said:

I meant the Decarava book. (I actually have a copyof te DExter photo signed by Leonard.  I expect that there are thousands of them. 

Sorry, I misunderstood this as you had asked about a book (without quoting a reference etc.) directly after my own post mentioning a book.

14 hours ago, Dmitry said:

Social Justice angle seems to be almost a requirement for any culturally-related article these days. 

 

Yes, seems very much like it.

Have now started reading the book about "Cafe Society - The Right Place for the Wrong People" and did notice that mention in the opener that the appreciation of Barney Josephson's work is going to be approached in the context of his times. Way better than trying to rewrite history with the (doubtful) "benefit" of hindsight.

Edited by Big Beat Steve
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