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Unissued Coltrane

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I wonder if Ravi is working with Universal to put more of his father's work out into the world. What's still in the vaults? And what would you like to hear?


Browsing the Coltrane discography, there are a number of unissued studio recordings originally made for Impulse!

• April 21, 1966 - four unreleased studio tracks

• April 28, 1966 - two unreleased studio tracks

• February 27, 1967 - two unreleased studio tracks

• March 29, 1967 - six unreleased studio tracks

• May 17, 1967 - two unreleased studio tracks

 

Coltrane's last session in the studio (May 17, 1967) yielded the tracks "None Other" and "Kaleidoscope." I wonder if he titled them himself. Would love to hear what these later recordings sound like. I'm in the mood for a box set of unissued studio recordings!

john-coltrane-meditation.jpg

 

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Posted (edited)

I'd love to have a CD with the complete February 2, 1966 session - the only session never reissued by Impulse in completed form. 

Edited by mikeweil

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Posted (edited)

I want everything. All the late period studio stuff that's unreleased, and, like Mikeweil, the complete February 2, 1966 session. Also, if available, more live recordings in decent sound quality. Bring it on!

I also want Expression in good sound quality. All Japanese and US CDs I have heard sound awfully compressed and harsh. Just compare Offering from the beautiful 2011 SHM-CD of Stellar Regions to any CD release. An appalling difference!

Edited by erwbol

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Even though I have 92 discs worth of Coltrane as a leader, and gave my son the middle name "Coltrane", I've actually heard enough. He's one artist I just don't feel I got short-changed on. I think anything else is going to be nothing but more of the same. Not that that's a bad thing, just not a necessary thing. 

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One of the aspects of Coltrane's music that makes it worth coming back to is its sheer density and length. I've owned Live In Seattle for a long time, as an example, but it wasn't until a few days ago that I actually listened, closely, to all 36 minutes of "Evolution" — whew! At any rate, just when I think I too have heard enough, I get whomped over the head with just how much I didn't hear the first time.

I'm a little surprised that more late period studio work hasn't already been issued.

Those 2011 Coltrane SHM-CDs have excellent sound. (I missed out on the Live In Seattle issue. Argh!) I listened to the 2011 SHM-CD of Sun Ship just today. It follows the edits (which are minor) of the vinyl, and sounds very, very good (considering that it's a non-RVG recording, and Tyner's piano is squashed hard left in the stereo mix). Hearing that quartet at the very end — right before dissolving into the group with Alice and Rashied — is something else.

I need to play the Half Note and Temple sets more.

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Yeah, the '65 material is truly astonishing. My two favorite Jazz albums are Sun Ship and First Meditations. 

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You'd think the potential audience for these unreleased sessions is only shrinking, so why not release all this material already?

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2 hours ago, erwbol said:

You'd think the potential audience for these unreleased sessions is only shrinking, so why not release all this material already?

Speak for yourself, cuz I'm definitely 20 lbs heavier than I was back in the 1990's.

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Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, erwbol said:

You'd think the potential audience for these unreleased sessions is only shrinking, so why not release all this material already?

Perhaps the new Coltrane documentary in theaters (I'm actually going to see it tonight) will spark some interest and/or re-evaluation.

At some point, I imagine, the Japanese will get to these sessions. Maybe in 2026, Coltrane's centennial?

Edited by Late

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Do the Japanese labels remaster the material, or simply redistribute? 

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4 hours ago, Scott Dolan said:

Do the Japanese labels remaster the material, or simply redistribute? 

I think the latest remasters first used on the 2011 SHM-CDs were from the US made specifically for the Japanese market. Like with the Prestige 7000 series SHM-CDs from 2013 mastered by Paul Blackmore.

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Posted (edited)

But every title (regardless of origin or year)  is remastered for SHM releases, right? 

In other words, those particular masters aren't available through anyone else? 

Edited by Scott Dolan

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Some were recently made available again on regular budget CDs in Japan, but not in the US and EU. Not all of the Coltrane SHM-CDs from 2011 were new remasters. Some copied the sound of the Impulse! Originals CDs from the US, like Live at Birdland. The new remasters from 2011 were all late period Coltrane.

There were also Platinum SHM-CDs in 2013 of Ballads and A Love Supreme. These contained flat transfers of the master tapes. Very educational listening. A different experience from any other previous issue, be it vinyl or CD. I have only A Love Supreme of these two. The latest US reissue from 2015 (The Complete Masters) sounds wonderful, but a flat transfer of the master tapes is a very different experience.

Sometimes these kind of new remasters are also available on places HD Tracks like some of the Deutsche Grammophon SHM-CDs based on DSD remasters: e.g. Chopin Etudes by Pollini.

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I'm not understanding when you mention a flat transfer. I thought that meant that it would sound exactly like the master it's transferred from. 

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Yes, it does. It's the term used, also in the description on CD Japan. So no compression, equalisation, etc. Just the master tape transferred to DSD as is and then made into a CD.

The master has a wider stereo image, a huge deep bass, warm mids. You can crank the volume all the way up. Very pleasing to listen to.

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1 hour ago, erwbol said:

You can crank the volume all the way up. Very pleasing to listen to.

You mentioned wanting to hear a decent transfer of Expression. To my ears, the 1987 German edition of Expression (#254 646-2), which was "Manufactured by Record Service GmbH, Alsdorf," and issued by Warner (now 30 years ago!), sounds flat transferred. It's very quiet, but when you turn the volume up, it sounds quite good. No ear fatigue whatsoever.

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1 hour ago, erwbol said:

Yes, it does. It's the term used, also in the description on CD Japan. So no compression, equalisation, etc. Just the master tape transferred to DSD as is and then made into a CD.

The master has a wider stereo image, a huge deep bass, warm mids. You can crank the volume all the way up. Very pleasing to listen to.

Ok, I'm with you now. All other releases have been tweaked and fiddled with. These you're speaking of are not only from the original master tapes, but the actual original mix and master. 

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Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, Late said:

You mentioned wanting to hear a decent transfer of Expression. To my ears, the 1987 German edition of Expression (#254 646-2), which was "Manufactured by Record Service GmbH, Alsdorf," and issued by Warner (now 30 years ago!), sounds flat transferred. It's very quiet, but when you turn the volume up, it sounds quite good. No ear fatigue whatsoever.

I haven't heard that one yet. Perhaps I should track down a copy even though with Offering already on Stellar Regions it is only for three tracks. I have heard the 1987 CD of Crescent, though it's not as nice as the ALS platinum SHM-CD.

I was a bit sceptical about the A Love Supreme platinum SHM-CD at the time because of its high price, but member RiRilll kindly sent me a rip of the flat transfer through Dropbox.

Edited by erwbol

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Is the SHM Love Supreme superior to the Deluxe Edition, in your opinion? Just as good? 

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Much superior to the 2002 deluxe edition. 

P.S. There are other regular SHM-CDs of A Love Supreme that do not contain the flat transfer. That's just on the platinum disc from 2013.

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Well, I contacted Cuscuna himself on the matter. He kindly wrote me back (same day!), and reported what I should have known — those session tapes (that I listed above) are missing. "One of the great vault tragedies in recorded music" were his exact words. I agree (and hope he doesn't mind me quoting him).

It's fun to guess at what else might be out there, but it's also important (I have to remind myself sometimes) to reinvestigate what you already have. Everybody has listening phases (e.g. listening only to Sidney Bechet for three weeks, listening to Ben Webster straight for eight hours, listening to Ayler first thing in the morning with espresso, etc.), and I've been enjoying an unexpected late-period Coltrane phase. I'm hearing things in the music I haven't noticed before. That's what it's all about — that's what good music is all about.

Coltrane gave us so much.

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That's depressing.

But then again, the master tapes for A Love Supreme were also missing and eventually recovered a couple of years ago.

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17 hours ago, Late said:

Well, I contacted Cuscuna himself on the matter. He kindly wrote me back (same day!), and reported what I should have known — those session tapes (that I listed above) are missing. "One of the great vault tragedies in recorded music" were his exact words. I agree (and hope he doesn't mind me quoting him).

It's fun to guess at what else might be out there, but it's also important (I have to remind myself sometimes) to reinvestigate what you already have. Everybody has listening phases (e.g. listening only to Sidney Bechet for three weeks, listening to Ben Webster straight for eight hours, listening to Ayler first thing in the morning with espresso, etc.), and I've been enjoying an unexpected late-period Coltrane phase. I'm hearing things in the music I haven't noticed before. That's what it's all about — that's what good music is all about.

Coltrane gave us so much.

I once listened to Zappa, almost exclusively, for an entire year. For at least three years Coltrane took up around 75% of my listening time. 

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OK — so there are no more studio recordings to be issued (unless they're discovered somewhere).

Any unissued live recordings? Particularly of the last band?

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