Current Popularity of Jazz

[Niko]

19 hours ago, Hot Ptah said:

I am glad that you have that experience. I wonder if it is part of current German culture, as opposed to American? I don't know about that, I am just wondering.

 I do not experience any increased interest in jazz from the people I know between 30 and 45 at all. Virtually all of the people I know who have any interest in jazz are over 50 years old.

 

of course, my perspective is European and biased by the subset of the population I meet the most... and I wouldn't speak of increased interest... but I really don't  think that there is that much of a difference between people born, say, in 1950 and in 1985 when it comes to interest in jazz...

one way in which Spotify actually seems to draw some people to jazz is through the subgenre of "unobtrusive piano music for falling asleep" - put predictably this doesn't lead to much exploring (because people are asleep when the music worked out well for them), see here and especially here

 

[Hot Ptah]

4 hours ago, Niko said:

 

of course, my perspective is European and biased by the subset of the population I meet the most... and I wouldn't speak of increased interest... but I really don't  think that there is that much of a difference between people born, say, in 1950 and in 1985 when it comes to interest in jazz...

one way in which Spotify actually seems to draw some people to jazz is through the subgenre of "unobtrusive piano music for falling asleep" - put predictably this doesn't lead to much exploring (because people are asleep when the music worked out well for them), see here and especially here

 

That is very interesting!

[JSngry]

My daughter-in-law found "Nu Jazz" very soothing while she was pregnant, and so did my granddaughter when she was very newly born, but then last week, classical piano, Chopin in particular, seemed to really grab the baby's attention. Now that's one thing, but another thing is that here are people, a family, who are not afraid to go looking outside the mainstream. It's a life/lifestyle choice, really. They love Spotify, and Pandora. And they don't buy shit, really, and not just because of the budget. They look at buying music in any real quantity as putting a freeze on further accidental discoveries borne of intentional curiosity.

Not the kind of attitude to build an industry around, obviously, but this is how it's unfolding, isn't it. Spotify gives you a collection, Pandora gives you a radio station of associated randomnesses, either way, music is easily available to the degree that you want or don't want.

And if you want to really wonder "why?" and/or "why not?", that's really what it comes down do - any system, forced or voluntary, will only become what the users put into it. Curious people will explore, calcified people will seek the comforting familiar, and the most of everybody else will seek comfort, hear something unexpected, "like" it once it's apparent that it's acceptable to do so, and then stop there. It's a pity there's not used stores for streaming music, because what's tomorrow's equivalent of, say, Breezin' or Feels so Good going to be?

If a potential stream falls in the woods and no one is there to stream it, does it still make a noise?

The macro-isue is, imo, this whole concept of "binary choices" is ok for data, horribly wrong for people. "Either/Or" does not encourage exploration, much less an impulse of curiosity, it encourages a comfortable, and very controllable, stasis. Pi is infinite (so far), and "infinite" is not really an option in Binarychoiceland. Either/Or does not allow for either "maybe", much less "neither". Jeez, data is just one part of experience, it is not experience itself.

impulse!

[Scott Dolan]

Nobody has a gun to their head. 

[BillF]

 

16 hours ago, Niko said:

 

of course, my perspective is European and biased by the subset of the population I meet the most... and I wouldn't speak of increased interest... but I really don't  think that there is that much of a difference between people born, say, in 1950 and in 1985 when it comes to interest in jazz...

one way in which Spotify actually seems to draw some people to jazz is through the subgenre of "unobtrusive piano music for falling asleep" - put predictably this doesn't lead to much exploring (because people are asleep when the music worked out well for them), see here and especially here

 

There is, in fact, a surprising amount of jazz around, being used as background, mood-creating music. Starbucks in this country plays jazz of the classic era just about all the time, as far as i can make out. On the rare occasions I go in, I sit there thinking, "That's Cannonball", "That's Bobby Timmons", etc. It's obvious no one else is doing this, but then they're all 40+ years younger than me. 

[David Ayers]

20 hours ago, Scott Dolan said:

Right, but what other genre with a decidedly older fan base has embraced streaming? 

David, we saw Brit Floyd and their $1mil stage show a month ago with about 3,500 other fans. They don't offer anything to stream either. I have no idea what that actually means, or that it tells us anything. Trying to compare live music with recorded music doesn't seem to make much sense, IMO. 

 

Well the difference is the massive flow of money to classical which gives you e.g. The Juilliard or the Walt Disney Concert Hall, and the attempt to replicate that for jazz, which exists of course, but...

 

I think that is the place to look, not just the streaming data. 

[Scott Dolan]

Wow.

So a concert hall that seats a little over 2,000 that Lillian Disney donated $50mil towards building. And a school of the arts with a low acceptance rate and an annual tuition of $42,000. 

In a country of 300mil people. 

Um, OK...

[ghost of miles]

On 7/20/2017 at 6:22 PM, JSngry said:

My daughter-in-law found "Nu Jazz" very soothing while she was pregnant, and so did my granddaughter when she was very newly born,

A younger friend (20 years younger) mentioned to me last week that she and her husband are big fans of Nu Jazz.  (Which I think I may have been confusing with the acid-jazz school of the 90s... not quite the same thing?)

[Scott Dolan]

I had never even heard that term before. Always assumed it was yet another term that described Smooth Jazz. 

[Brad]

I had never heard that term before until I just read this thread and looked it up.

As far as streaming, although I don't do it, streaming is fine as a complement to our collections but as a substitute it doesn't seem to make sense to me. 

[Scott Dolan]

Why not? Outside of box sets, I use it exclusively now. And that was after years of avoiding it BECAUSE I didn’t think it was viable. 

[sgcim]

I used to be concerned with the popularity of jazz in the US, but who really gives a schist what type of music people who elected this prez listen to.

If they'd rather listen to some guy or gal yelling at them with a beat behind it, more power to 'em.

[Scott Dolan]

???

What does any of that even mean? 

[Brad]

10 minutes ago, Scott Dolan said:

Why not? Outside of box sets, I use it exclusively now. And that was after years of avoiding it BECAUSE I didn’t think it was viable. 

What about all of the CDs and LPs you have.  Are they just gathering dust?

[medjuck]

On 7/20/2017 at 10:54 AM, Hot Ptah said:

That is very interesting!

One of the streaming services-- I think it's Pandora-- has a "Bill Evans Channel".  Plays a lot of Bill  but other piano players as well.  I've heard it a couple of times at the houses of different friends none of whom are huge jazz fans. 

Edited March 29, 2018 by medjuck

[Scott Dolan]

Just now, Brad said:

What about all of the CDs and LPs you have.  Are they just gathering dust?

I have zero LPs and around 1,000 CDs. Most of which are ripped to my iMac so I can stream them over wi-fi to my main system in the living room. So no, they don’t “come out” much, but strictly for the convenience of it. Hell, I haven’t owned a true CD player for many years! 

I think if you gave streaming a try (not the free Spotify stuff) you’d actually come to like it. I was a huge skeptic for years and years. Now I hardly ever buy downloads anymore. And those that I do are because my wife’s Pilot only has a CD player and no Bluetooth capabilities. 

[Brad]

Until my iPod went on the fritz, most of my listening was done through there just because there never seems enough time in the day to listen to my system. 

I take it you have Spotify, then? I will have to check it out. 

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I don't do streaming because I think a hell of a lot of the music I like isn't available via streaming and, frankly, I can't be arsed to find out.

So let's find out from the people who DO use streaming, whether they can access any of the following half dozen tracks by some of my favourite artists:

Jazz - Jackie Ivory - Freddie the Freeloader

Gospel - The Loving Sisters - Jesus is all I need

Bambara - Super Djata Band - Sisse na djolo

Mandinke Djeliya - Ami Koita & Afrisa International - Koro ta

Latin - Cal Tjader - Funquiado (1978 version)

R&B - Bobby Bland - Hollywood woman

And if so, which?

MG

[JSngry]

1 hour ago, ghost of miles said:

A younger friend (20 years younger) mentioned to me last week that she and her husband are big fans of Nu Jazz.  (Which I think I may have been confusing with the acid-jazz school of the 90s... not quite the same thing?)

Not quite. Acid-Jazz is, in general, more about grooves and such. "Nu Jazz" is groove-based as well, but gets more into the, uh...."compositional" aspects of things, sorta, kinda. I know them when I hear them, usually. Not being that big on "styles" anymore, all I listen for is does it make good sense to me to be doing that.

There was a euro-group called Society , maybe The Society, that put out an album that set a really high bar for this type of thing. Their next record sucked, and I lost interest. But that one album...it had some real vision to it. So it can be done.

 

 

[Scott Dolan]

9 minutes ago, The Magnificent Goldberg said:

I don't do streaming because I think a hell of a lot of the music I like isn't available via streaming and, frankly, I can't be arsed to find out.

So let's find out from the people who DO use streaming, whether they can access any of the following half dozen tracks by some of my favourite artists:

Jazz - Jackie Ivory - Freddie the Freeloader

Gospel - The Loving Sisters - Jesus is all I need

Bambara - Super Djata Band - Sisse na djolo

Mandinke Djeliya - Ami Koita & Afrisa International - Koro ta

Latin - Cal Tjader - Funquiado (1978 version)

R&B - Bobby Bland - Hollywood woman

And if so, which?

MG

Not on Apple Music. Are those titles OOP? 

They had three Jackie Ivory titles, none from The Loving Sisters, one from Super Djata, and MANY from all the others. 

BUT, any album that has either never been released on CD, or is OOP, will not be found on any streaming service. 

14 minutes ago, Brad said:

Until my iPod went on the fritz, most of my listening was done through there just because there never seems enough time in the day to listen to my system. 

I take it you have Spotify, then? I will have to check it out. 

No, I use Apple Music. 

They have a three month free trial if you want to check them out before you buy. 

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Just now, Scott Dolan said:

Not on Apple Music. Are those titles OOP? 

They had three Jackie Ivory titles, none from The Loving Sisters, one from Super Djata, and MANY from all the others. 

BUT, any album that has either never been released on CD, or is OOP, will not be found on any streaming service. 

Thank you Scott. You just excluded most of my music, so I was right. I am STILL buying records that never came out on CD. I've never accepted that what is in print at any particular time,  a matter NOT under my control, is adequate for me.

Therefore a record collection. TINA, as Mrs T used to say

MG

[Scott Dolan]

My current love is the relatively obscure Free Improv artists. It’s actually quite shocking how much of their material is available! 

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Yes, I know. I don't hold it against you, though  We all have different taste.

I was, however, very disappointed about the Ami Koita. I bought that album in 1994, when it was moderately new - I think from the previous year. When I tried to play the K7 a few weeks ago, I found the tape had stretched. Most of them hold up better than that. So I tried to find a copy somewhere else on the web. No luck ANYWHERE, not even Discogs have heard of it. She's from Mali, Afriisa International was Tabu Ley's band from the Congo, and the album appears to have been recorded in Cote d'Ivoire. It's completely unlike anything either artist has ever done. But it worked!

Woe is me.

Dog walking time. Come on Rufus!

MG

[Scott Dolan]

2 minutes ago, The Magnificent Goldberg said:

Yes, I know. I don't hold it against you, though  We all have different taste.

Trust me, brother. I was right there with you not too long ago. But then I heard a piece...and it just clicked! No way to describe it. Reminds me of when I first bought Kind Of Blue because I thought it was a must for any budding Jazz fan. I listened to that damned thing nine times, and couldn’t figure out for the life of me what anyone heard in it. It was “nice”, but certainly not special. 

Oh, but then there was the tenth time...

[JSngry]

2 hours ago, JSngry said:

There was a euro-group called Society , maybe The Society, that put out an album that set a really high bar for this type of thing. Their next record sucked, and I lost interest. But that one album...it had some real vision to it. So it can be done.

Ok, this is the one cut that Society & Ursula both put on their respective albums:

This is the album, the CD seems to be a little pricey now, not sure if I'd say go there no matter what, but I dug it well enough to buy a "real" copy and still listen to it often enough.

It's got that Herbie/Manchild With All The Pop Removed vibe, which is really not something that a lot of people have engaged it, and yeah, there is something there to look at, imo.

 

"Nu Jazz", I dunno, whatever, you know, labels are for selling, ultimately. I think it's just interesting, creative music making non-obvious choices  in service of a non-mass-hypnosis POV. Not that there's anything wrong with that, just sayin'...It's not particularly "improvisational", everything is in service of a compositional architecture, but it "sounds like" "jazz" and feels pretty in there so...yeah, whatever. They made good, interesting choices, so hey everybody, tuy the record today!

But like I said, they made another album a little while later and it really sucked. Oh well. It has a chicken on the cover. Don't buy that one.