jazzbo

Sonny Clark Trio on Time 2 LP reissue news

70 posts in this topic

On 10/24/2017 at 4:24 PM, AllenLowe said:

does anybody else notice Clark's stylistic debt to Duke Jordan?  A lot of very on-the-beat phrasing.

Not me. I hear his eighth-note placement mostly way behind the beat, and his articulation producing a distinctive detached-legato that sounds halfway between early Horace Silver and Bud Powell. 

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Yeah, I hear a LOT of Bud Powell. Not a bad thing.

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I hear Sonny Clark in early Herbie Hancock.

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those are the obvious ones - the Duke Jordan connection is the way he phrases so carefully; the eight notes are almost quaintly placed. And he is always marking the beat. Duke did this constantly.

He is really right on the beat, and almost never legato - Bud connected the notes much more  seamlessly. But those eighths are almost too percussive and obvious, rhythmically; I like Clark, but this side of him I occasionally find grating.

Edited by AllenLowe

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Who was the liner note writer who compared him to Art Farmer?

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9 hours ago, AllenLowe said:

those are the obvious ones - the Duke Jordan connection is the way he phrases so carefully; the eight notes are almost quaintly placed. And he is always marking the beat. Duke did this constantly.

He is really right on the beat, and almost never legato - Bud connected the notes much more  seamlessly. But those eighths are almost too percussive and obvious, rhythmically; I like Clark, but this side of him I occasionally find grating.

I agree that "phrases carefully" and eighth notes placed meticulously  -- I'm not sure about quaintly -- are similarities, but  Clark is much farther back on the beat and the articulation digs deeper than Jordan. 

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I'm still not all in on Duke Jordan, to be honest. Important figure, yes. But...

BTW, it was The People's Choice, Leonard Feather, who compared Clark to Art Farmer, liner note's of Jackie's Bag.

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12 hours ago, AllenLowe said:

But those eighths are almost too percussive and obvious, rhythmically; I like Clark, but this side of him I occasionally find grating.

The percussiveness reminds me of his buddy, Hampton Hawes.

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On 10/25/2017 at 8:14 AM, jlhoots said:

Nice jacket cover on this new release. 

They coulda used the Spanish hard-to-dance-in-heels-I'm-gonna-break-my-right-ankle cover! ;)

R-6283957-1415633600-8324.jpeg.jpg

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On October 24, 2017 at 4:24 PM, AllenLowe said:

does anybody else notice Clark's stylistic debt to Duke Jordan?  A lot of very on-the-beat phrasing.

NOT!

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On 11/8/2017 at 2:24 AM, Michael Weiss said:

NOT!

might be a good idea to actually listen to Duke Jordan first.

I will try to assist you; Duke's solo starts ar 2:00 - he uses fewer triplets and double time figures but his touch is very close and, like Clark, as I said early, he is always marking the beat (the second one here is a little more illustrative):

 

 

Edited by AllenLowe

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I have often found Duke Jordan's playing to be a bit 'cold,' whereas I hear a lot of warmth in Clark. But mechanically I can hear what Allen is saying.

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4 hours ago, AllenLowe said:

might be a good idea to actually listen to Duke Jordan first.

I will try to assist you

might be a good idea not to assume what I (or Sonny Clark for that matter) have or haven't listened to.

 

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actually I assumed that Sonny listened to Duke Jordan.

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Duke Jordan has never really clicked with me and I shouldn't comment on his playing as I'm not very familiar with it. But assuming that I even understand what "marking the beat" means, I've not found Sonny Clark to do that like Duke Jordan does in these clips.

As it happened, I listened several times to the Jackie McLean album 'A Fickle Sonance' a few weeks ago, and I remember Sonny Clark's solo on the opening 'Five Will Get You Ten' very well. I can't link to the YouTube clips of that tune because they are blocked over here, but check out his solo there. I just don't hear that much on the beat phrasing in it.

Edited by Daniel A
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On 10/24/2017 at 0:15 AM, jazzbo said:

Seven alternate takes (6 of the 7 compositions, one with two alternates) were released on the most recent Japanese cd from Solid Records.

 

Perhaps you have made a mistake, Lon? The original album has 8 compositions. According to this: http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/CDSOL-45381?s_ssid=e32ca45a12c8f4c867 there are 6 alternates (Nica (twice), Minor Meeting, Blues Blue, Junka, Sonia). This is the same tracklist as for my SHM-CD from 2008 (VICJ-61542) mastered by Bernie Grundman.

According to this: https://www.allaboutjazz.com/the-1960-sessions-with-george-duvivier-and-max-roach-sonny-clark-tompkins-square-review-by-jakob-baekgaard.php the new 2 LP set also has six alternates but substitutes the alternate of Blues Blue for a second alternate of Minor Meeting not on our Japanese discs.

On 10/25/2017 at 3:56 PM, Dmitry said:

The sacd doesn't sound that great either, nor does the original vinyl [both recollections are from memory; haven't played this title in years].

 

The Bernie Grundman mastered SHM-CD from 2008 (VICJ-61542) sounds quite a bit better than the Hoffman SACD imo. The SACD also has only 5 alternates. It misses the second alternate of Nica compared to the two Japanese editions Lon and I mentioned having.

Edited by erwbol

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On 11/9/2017 at 1:26 PM, Daniel A said:

Duke Jordan has never really clicked with me and I shouldn't comment on his playing as I'm not very familiar with it. But assuming that I even understand what "marking the beat" means, I've not found Sonny Clark to do that like Duke Jordan does in these clips.

As it happened, I listened several times to the Jackie McLean album 'A Fickle Sonance' a few weeks ago, and I remember Sonny Clark's solo on the opening 'Five Will Get You Ten' very well. I can't link to the YouTube clips of that tune because they are blocked over here, but check out his solo there. I just don't hear that much on the beat phrasing in it.

Not sure what this has to do with anything, but Flight To Jordan is one of my favorite Blue Note albums.

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3 hours ago, erwbol said:

Perhaps you have made a mistake, Lon? The original album has 8 compositions. According to this: http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/CDSOL-45381?s_ssid=e32ca45a12c8f4c867 there are 6 alternates (Nica (twice), Minor Meeting, Blues Blue, Junka, Sonia). This is the same tracklist as for my SHM-CD from 2008 (VICJ-61542) mastered by Bernie Grundman.

According to this: https://www.allaboutjazz.com/the-1960-sessions-with-george-duvivier-and-max-roach-sonny-clark-tompkins-square-review-by-jakob-baekgaard.php the new 2 LP set also has six alternates but substitutes the alternate of Blues Blue for a second alternate of Minor Meeting not on our Japanese discs.

The Bernie Grundman mastered SHM-CD from 2008 (VICJ-61542) sounds quite a bit better than the Hoffman SACD imo. The SACD also has only 5 alternates. It misses the second alternate of Nica compared to the two Japanese editions Lon and I mentioned having.

I don't know what I was thinking Erwin, just counted wrong I guess (part of me thinks at the time I thought one of these was not a Clark composition.) Thanks for the correction.

I haven't directly compared the SACD and the new Solid release I received last week, but the latter sounds really good.

Edited by jazzbo

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2 hours ago, jazzbo said:

I don't know what I was thinking Erwin, just counted wrong I guess (part of me thinks at the time I thought one of these was not a Clark composition.) Thanks for the correction.

I haven't directly compared the SACD and the new Solid release I received last week, but the latter sounds really good.

The SACD is one of those discs were Hoffman has decided it is verboten to hear the cymbals up front. 

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A couple of years ago, I won an eBay auction for a Roland Kirk disc. When it came in the mail, the mini-LP sleeve was in great shape, and I was excited to hear how this particular Japanese remaster sounded. I put the disc in the player, sat back on the sofa ... and this Sonny Clark album started playing. What? I got up, opened the player, and discovered I had been mailed the Clark Audio Fidelity SACD inside a Roland Kirk sleeve. I actually didn't have the Clark music at that time, and when I contacted the seller, I said that I'd actually keep the disc. (He kindly refunded the transaction nevertheless.) So now I have the Clark SACD with no packaging, and a Roland Kirk sleeve with no disc.

The SACD (I've only listened to the CD layer) sounds good to me, but I'd like to hear the Grundman remaster. Did the Grundman edition come in a jewel case?

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On 11/25/2017 at 4:32 PM, Late said:

A couple of years ago, I won an eBay auction for a Roland Kirk disc. When it came in the mail, the mini-LP sleeve was in great shape, and I was excited to hear how this particular Japanese remaster sounded. I put the disc in the player, sat back on the sofa ... and this Sonny Clark album started playing. What? I got up, opened the player, and discovered I had been mailed the Clark Audio Fidelity SACD inside a Roland Kirk sleeve. I actually didn't have the Clark music at that time, and when I contacted the seller, I said that I'd actually keep the disc. (He kindly refunded the transaction nevertheless.) So now I have the Clark SACD with no packaging, and a Roland Kirk sleeve with no disc.

The SACD (I've only listened to the CD layer) sounds good to me, but I'd like to hear the Grundman remaster. Did the Grundman edition come in a jewel case?

Yes, regular jewel case with smooth glossy black tray. The OBI strip has a photo of Grundman behind a board on the front. Another photo of him in the booklet.

113757082.jpg

https://www.amazon.fr/Sonny-Clark-Trio-Shm-CD-USA/dp/B001DETH38/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1512750229&sr=8-2&keywords=sonny+clark+trio+shm-cd

One copy left, but unfortunately the price has gone up a bit.

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Well, that was easy!

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24 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Well, that was easy!

Yeah, I just ran into Jason on the street today actually (my friend who owns/runs Landlocked) and we were talking about how there's still a strong demand for CDs in Japan especially, and in Germany as well.  They shouldn't have any trouble selling a run of 500-1000.  Jason thought it was really unwise of them last year to take the no-CD stance on a release like this, but maybe they were just trying to push people like me into buying the vinyl.  I like that Resonance usually doesn't wait very long to make CD versions available after they put out vinyl for Record Store Day releases.

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I didn't even consider the vinyl (for reasons discussed at the time), but I just one-clicked that CD. No brainer for me.

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