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Hardbopjazz

Was this the first box set?

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Posted (edited)

FWIW, referring to the 45 vs 33 rpm war and assuming you and your sources are implicitly referring to the 45 "album" sets as those GATEFOLD cover EP sets too, RCA and Capitol (to name just two) carried on releasing their LPs as 3-EP 45 rpm sets too for quite a while into the 50s (at least until c.1955, it seems).

Some I have in my collection:

- Nick Travis - The Panic Is On

- The Don Elliott Quintet (the back cover lists Shorty Rogers Courts The Count, Inside Sauter-Finegan and Shorty Rogers & HIs GIants (Morpo, bunny, etc.) a.o. as being available as 45 rpm EP sets too.

- JImmy Giuffre Trio (Four Brothers, Sultana, Nutty Pine etc. - 2-EP set)

And this is from the inside cover of the Stan Kenton Showcase - The Music of Bill Russo 2-EP set: (This listing does not look just like random 45 releases but like consequent programming of the contents of entire 33 rpm albums as 45 rpm EPs too, and not just as excerpts like they did later on):

32082322xw.jpg

32082323hv.jpg

 

 

 

 

Edited by Big Beat Steve

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Thanks. I should have spent some time Googling but I thought someone might know it off the top of their head (as the saying goes).   I remember that you could often get Lps broken up into Ep sets.  I got Fats Domino that way. 

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One of the companies - I guess either Victor, ARC or Columbia - was issuing 12" long playing albums in the thirties, but they weren't vinyl; I think they were shellac. And they were so unsuccessful to they gave it up as a bad job. I'll try to find the reference again. Mostly classical, but I think there were two Duke Ellingtons in there.

MG

Yes, it's part of the RCA preview pdf on the Both Sides Now site. Here's the quote:

"RCA developed 33 1/3 RPM records in 1931 which were called program transcriptions. These records had the same grooves as a standard 78 RPM records of the days. These records were a failure during the depression and abandoned. RCA Victor did not produce 33 1/3 RPM records again until 1949 when they adopted the microgroove record developed by Columbia. When Columbia was developing the33 1/3 RPM long play records, RCA Victor developed the 45 RPM record, the 45 was 7 inch in diameter and had a large hole in the middle. The 45 was developed to play the same amount of music as the 78 RPM, 10 inch record. During the 50’s and 60’s the 45 RPM was dominate for singles and totally replaced the 78 RPM by 1960 in the United States. In the long run though, the 33 1/3 long play became the dominant format which lasted until it was replaced by the Compact Disc in the 1980s."

MG

There's supposed to be a listing on BSN but it's gone missing. You get a page not found error when you hit the link.

MG

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Back here again: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LP_record

RCA Victor introduced an early version of a long-playing record for home use in September 1931. These "Program Transcription" discs, as Victor called them, played at 33 13 rpm and used a somewhat finer and more closely spaced groove than typical 78s. They were to be played with a special "Chromium Orange" chrome-plated steel needle. The 10-inch discs, mostly used for popular and light classical music, were normally pressed in shellac, but the 12-inch discs, mostly used for "serious" classical music, were normally pressed in Victor's new vinyl-based Victrolac compound, which provided a much quieter playing surface. They could hold up to 15 minutes per side. Beethoven's Fifth Symphony, performed by the Philadelphia Orchestra under Leopold Stokowski, was the first 12-inch recording issued. The New York Times wrote, "What we were not prepared for was the quality of reproduction...incomparably fuller."[4][5][6]

Unfortunately for Victor, it was downhill from there. Many of the subsequent issues were not new recordings but simply dubs made from existing 78 rpm record sets. The dubs were audibly inferior to the original 78s. Two-speed turntables with the 33 13 rpm speed were included only on expensive high-end machines, which sold in small numbers, and people were not buying many records of any kind at the time. Record sales in the US had dropped from a high of 105.6 million records sold in 1921 to 5.5 million in 1933 because of competition from radio and the effects of the Great Depression.[7] Few if any new Program Transcriptions were recorded after 1933, and two-speed turntables soon disappeared from consumer products. Except for a few recordings of background music for funeral parlors, the last of the issued titles had been purged from the company's record catalog by the end of the decade. The failure of the new product left RCA Victor with a low opinion of the prospects for any sort of long-playing record, influencing product development decisions during the coming decade.

Also of interest is the use of 33 1/3 speed for "industry" purposes, broadcast transcriptions and that Vitaphone stuff.

RCA was really doing a lot in terms of recording technology, they must have been pissed when columbia beat them to the punch with the LP as a popular medium.

 

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, JSngry said:

Back here again: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LP_record

RCA Victor introduced an early version of a long-playing record for home use in September 1931. These "Program Transcription" discs, as Victor called them, played at 33 13 rpm and used a somewhat finer and more closely spaced groove than typical 78s. They were to be played with a special "Chromium Orange" chrome-plated steel needle. The 10-inch discs, mostly used for popular and light classical music, were normally pressed in shellac, but the 12-inch discs, mostly used for "serious" classical music, were normally pressed in Victor's new vinyl-based Victrolac compound, which provided a much quieter playing surface. They could hold up to 15 minutes per side. Beethoven's Fifth Symphony, performed by the Philadelphia Orchestra under Leopold Stokowski, was the first 12-inch recording issued. The New York Times wrote, "What we were not prepared for was the quality of reproduction...incomparably fuller."[4][5][6]

Unfortunately for Victor, it was downhill from there. Many of the subsequent issues were not new recordings but simply dubs made from existing 78 rpm record sets. The dubs were audibly inferior to the original 78s. Two-speed turntables with the 33 13 rpm speed were included only on expensive high-end machines, which sold in small numbers, and people were not buying many records of any kind at the time. Record sales in the US had dropped from a high of 105.6 million records sold in 1921 to 5.5 million in 1933 because of competition from radio and the effects of the Great Depression.[7] Few if any new Program Transcriptions were recorded after 1933, and two-speed turntables soon disappeared from consumer products. Except for a few recordings of background music for funeral parlors, the last of the issued titles had been purged from the company's record catalog by the end of the decade. The failure of the new product left RCA Victor with a low opinion of the prospects for any sort of long-playing record, influencing product development decisions during the coming decade.

Also of interest is the use of 33 1/3 speed for "industry" purposes, broadcast transcriptions and that Vitaphone stuff.

RCA was really doing a lot in terms of recording technology, they must have been pissed when columbia beat them to the punch with the LP as a popular medium.

 

Not only did they record Ellington at 331/3 but they (perhaps by accident) recorded him in stereo.  Steven Lasker discovered that they used 2 microphones from which they did separate pressings.  He was able to sync them up and do a stereo release  of Duke Ellington recorded in 1932.  I'm not sure if they did all their 33 1/3 recordings with 2 mikes nor whether they had stereo in mind. 

Edited by medjuck

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If you do a You Tube search for "accidental stereo", you get all kinds of returns from the same time period.

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I have a copy of Stan Getz at the Shrine on Norgran which is a box set. There are only two LPs in the box, but also a booklet with nice photos of Getz.

Also, there is the Riverside History of Classic Jazz.

 

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