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LP Era - Availability of Classical LPs Between Continents


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I first started buying classical LPs in the late 1970s or early 1980s.  This was in the U.S.  At that time, import LPs from labels such as Deutsche Grammophon and Philips were fairly easily available - at least certain titles were in the right stores - along with the US LPs on labels such Columbia, RCA, EMI Angel, etc.

I am curious what the availability was like on the other side of the Atlantic, and I am also curious as to what was available on either side of the pond during the 1950s and 1960s.  Could you buy, for example, Deutsche Grammophon LPs in the US then?  The US LPs of symphonic music featured US orchestras.  Did Europeans have access to US orchestras, or did they even care to?  How about the other way around?  Were there US listeners who sought out recordings by particular European orchestras and ensembles?  In the CD era, it seems you can easily get classical music from numerous sources.  What was it like back then? 

Edited by Teasing the Korean
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I am not into classical music at all so can only comment as an "observer". But if what I have had to wade through in the record bins at countless record clearout sales in the shops (or even at the usual fleamarket crates) through the years is anything to go by, it seems to me that classical and light classical music from DOMESTIC labels featuring German or European artists was omnipresent in huge, huge numbers here in the 50s and 60s. (Deutsche Grammophon, in particular) I've long ago stopped wondering about the "interesting" older vinyl record jackets seen in stacks that on second look turned out to be classical or light classical music. As for Americans, I suppose Jascha Heifetz, for example, would rank as a U.S. artist? Those big names certainly were sold here too, but probably on domestic pressings, not imports.

I also remember the annual record catalogs issued each year were even thicker for classical music than those for jazz and blues (Experts will be familiar with these "Bielefelder" catalogs - and the one "classical" catalog from the early 60s I had was about twice as thick as the jazz edition, and the jazz edition would only reach that stage about 10 years later - and this doesn't even take into account the sales figures which were far higher for classical LPs than for jazz LPs, for example).

As far as I can remember IMPORTED pressings with foreign conductors, orchestras and soloists were relatively thin on the ground in those bins, with one exception: For whatever reason I've always had the impression that older 10-inch LPs from the 50s with classical music had a higher share of those thick cardboard U.S. pressings than later LPs did. But maybe this was because whenever I saw a bunch of 10-inchers I checked them particularly closely, only to be dispppointed at a rate of about 99:1. ;) Some very nice cover artwork there, though, but you have to draw a line and cannot start buying items outside your (wide) fields of musical interest just for that ...

 

Edited by Big Beat Steve
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3 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

...As for Americans, I suppose Jascha Heifetz, for example, would rank as a U.S. artist? Those big names certainly were sold here too, but probably on domestic pressings, not imports.

Thanks for the detailed reply.  Regarding your question, US albums I have by an artist like Heifetz would generally be recorded with US orchestras for US labels.  So in that sense, they would count as a "US" recording for the purposes of this discussion. For all I know, Heifetz may have recorded the same pieces with European orchestras for European labels.

Edited by Teasing the Korean
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Imports were available through specialized import services - I remember some conductors had received good reviews, like Abravanel for his Mahler cycle. But they were a trifle more expensive than European pressings, and had a reputation of being noisier than pressings from Pathé Marconi in France or Deutsche Grammophon. Whenever a US label had a Eurpean branch, like Columbia with CBS, they had the records pressed in Europe.

In general, I think soloists or conductors were found more important than orchestras - when a favoured European conductor was contracted by a US orchestra, they released it over here, too. And of course, when a renowned conductor/soloist, had signed with a European label. 

In the LP era, the scene remained at a disctance, e.g. European ensembles rarely recorded works by American composers - these were items distributed by the import services.

 

Edited by mikeweil
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1 hour ago, Teasing the Korean said:

Thanks for the detailed reply.  Regarding your question, US albums I have by an artist like Heifetz would generally be recorded with US orchestras for US labels.  So in that sense, they would count as a "US" recording for the purposes of this discussion. For all I know, Heifetz may have recorded the same pieces with European orchestras for European labels.

Actually I now wish I still had that "Bielefelder Katalog"   from the early 60s that I was given along with the 1960/61 issue of the jazz catalog. But it was sold off at a fleamarket a long, long time ago as it really was "surplus to requirements".

Its correct title was "Katalog der Schallplatten klassischer Musik", listing what was available on the market in Germany, probably a bit like your "Schwann", except that it focused on classical music only and had track listings etc.. Copies of older volumes are around on abebooks and elsewhere, though. I just checked - at the time my 1960/61 jazz catalog was issued with some 110 pages, the classical music catalog had a whoopping 288 pages. And I am pretty sure the portion of import records listed in the classical catalog was far smaller than in the jazz catalog (where I do think all the Blue Note, Pacific Jazz, etc. listed in there, and of course French Vogue,  were imports, not German pressings).

So this might give you an idea of the relative size of the record market in this field here.

Mike is correct about what he says about soloists/conductors working with orchestras from other countries. From what I also remember in those record racks is that while I cannot really remember US solists/orchestras there, let along US pressings (except for those early ones), featured soloists and orchestras from various West European countries also were around. Same for Czechoslovak (above all) and Polish records with classical music, and these most often were imports from those countries (mainly because records from those countries were dirt cheap here and apparently were exported widely from behind the Iron Curtain). OTOH I cannot recall having ever seen a record featuring Lily Pons, for example (a name I would have noticed for quite a peculiar reason too long to explain here ;)).

Again, I observed this only browsing through the bins, but since apparently a an awful lot of fairly well-cared for collections (wishing you'd hit on jazz collections from the same era and in teh same conditions ;)) were dumped there and sold off cheaply (because there is no huge market for classical vinyl) you just couldn't help noticing and getting an idea over time of what was out there.

Edited by Big Beat Steve
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I mean, Cage and Feldman records didn't seemingly appear on European import labels until the late 1960s -- Takahashi's performance of the Sonatas and Interludes on Fylkingen were maybe among the first? Earle Brown has a cut on that La Musica Nuova box on Victrola but he's the only American represented... the New York School, despite having a huge lasting influence, didn't have much representation on European LPs until long after composers, artists, and music fans had begun paying attention. 

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The last few years have seen relatively large numbers of vintage OG DGs turning up in HPs around here. I assume that most of them were bought here as imported items. My memory is that the local stores that represented well with the classical had no qualms about importing, it seemed really common practice.

And who was it, Westminster, or somebody, that provided stateside issuances of who, Vox? Something like that, my aim is true here, even if my hands are shaky.

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2 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

I mean, Cage and Feldman records didn't seemingly appear on European import labels until the late 1960s 

Wergo was among the first German labels to release recordings of Feldman and Cage - but they were owned by Schott Music who published a lot of sheet music of avant garde composers. (Both still exist)

Deutsche Grammophon once made a series of LPs with avant garde stuff, with a lot of public relations around it, but that was about it for larger German classical labels. Either small labels or imports. 

Those Bielefelder Kataloge Steve mentioned were a good source of information, even though they only listed LPs the companies - German as well as import services - provided information about. 

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Yeah, that DGG Avant-garde series came out in the late 60s, and was mostly (though not entirely) European. I have the entire run of those boxes. Really beautiful music. 

Wergo is a great label -- there are a couple scattered pieces on earlier compilations but their most significant Cage and NY School releases didn't start hitting the bins until the 70s.

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Wergo is where you go now to get CDs of the Earle Brown-produced/curated/whatever Time 2000 series. Not sure if they have all of it, though...like the Gazzelloni, do they have that one? Did anybody get that to CD? Or the Cathy Berberian?

I treasure my OG Time Cathy Berberian Time LP. Got it in the mid-70s, sold it in the late-70s (at the height of my Jazz Militancy), started regretted parting with it in the late-80s finally got another one a few years ago. Never getting rid of it again, learned my lesson.

maxresdefault.jpg

 

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I still have the WERGO issue of the Berberian LP, but haven't listened to it for decades ....  seems to be a different program.

R-995208-1278697060.jpeg.jpg

https://www.discogs.com/Cathy-Berberian-MagnifiCathy-The-Many-Voices-Of-Cathy-Berberian/master/158847

Have a look at the WERGO listing - are there any issues of TIME LPs? Or did TIME do US releases of WERGO albums? Many of the latter were originally recorded by German radio.

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Heliodor did the WERGO titles in the US and England. That's a pretty late 60 000 series catalog number so 1971 seems accurate for release -- don't recall seeing a heavy stock gatefold edition of that one which would skew it earlier.

The Time records did get sold with different covers in Italy it looks like, but they were still "Time" records and licensed overseas by Bob Shad. Might they be RCA Italiana products? Not sure how far they wandered beyond Italy but Maderna was involved with Time/Mainstream as a music supervisor, so it would stand to reason that he helped that deal get made. WERGO bought the Earle Brown-produced New Music titles in the last 20 years, probably even more recently, and has issued them on CD.

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21 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

Yeah, that DGG Avant-garde series came out in the late 60s, and was mostly (though not entirely) European. I have the entire run of those boxes. Really beautiful music. 

Wergo is a great label -- there are a couple scattered pieces on earlier compilations but their most significant Cage and NY School releases didn't start hitting the bins until the 70s.

Clifford, do you know if the contents of all of those DG Avant Garde boxes were available as single LPs? I believe a good number were

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