Heroin, the drug of choice.

[Hardbopjazz]

So many jazz artists have died by using heroin. I'm just wondering why this was, and is the drug of choice amongst musicians. Did Bird have someting to do with this?

[JSngry]

This is a big can of worms to open, and rather than doing so, I'd suggest reading what Ira Gitler wrote about this subject in Swing To Bop. That's always struck me as the most realistic and objective view of this topic to be found in print.

It ain't nearly as simple a matter, one way or the other, as some would like to think...

[Tim McG]

May I suggest a book that might shed some light on this issue?

Miles: The Autobiography by Miles Davis and Quincy Troupe.

In it you will find some surprizing information regarding heroin use and the musicians who used...among a great many other tidbits of Jazz knowledge about Miles specifically, and other Jazz greats, in general.

A must read, IMHO.

Edited March 7, 2004 by GoodSpeak

[BruceH]

Heroin seems to go in and out of fashion, like skinny ties and wide lapels. I guess this is true of a lot of illegal drugs, but here's some scary news: A bag of heroin, the same kind that 20 or 30 years ago went for thirty dollars, now goes for four dollars. Not forty, that's FOUR dollars!!! So a kid can get hooked for less than the price of a movie or a paperback.

[7/4]

Heroin seems to go in and out of fashion, like skinny ties and wide lapels. I guess this is true of a lot of illegal drugs, but here's some scary news: A bag of heroin, the same kind that 20 or 30 years ago went for thirty dollars, now goes for four dollars. Not forty, that's FOUR dollars!!! So a kid can get hooked for less than the price of a movie or a paperback.

Yep. I know someone who got hooked because it was cheaper than weed.

[Joe G]

Here's from Kenny Werner's book:

Jazz, as well as other types of music, has always been about the search for inspiration and the inner connection... In the nineteen twenties and thirties, many jazz musicians sought it with alcohol. In the forties, it was heroin, the new buzz. And what is the attration of heroin? You can't think, you can only do. You can't play too much, you can only play what wants to come out. You accept everything that comes out without worry or pain. So, in their own way, those players were also searching for the "space." Even the great Charlie Parker felt this need. There are stories of him arriving to a gig without his drug, not playing well, leaving the gig, copping some heroin, coming back and playing great.

This is not a recommendation to start shooting heroin; but it illustrates that the inner search in some form has always been prevalent in the artist....But the one great sin of all drugs is ... the feeling doesn't last! You always have to do more, getting less and less out of it. As you increase the dosage of whatever you're addicted to, be it violence or chocolate cheesecake - the result is always sad or even tragic.

[JSngry]

People get high (on anything) for a simple reason - it feels freakin' GREAT.

But that's just the tip of the iceberg, which is, if you'll remember, what sunk the Titanic...

[BFrank]

Just got back from seeing a film about the MC5. Some of those guys had serious junk problems. It wasn't just limited to the jazz community.

[Free For All]

May I suggest a book that might shed some light on this issue?

Miles: The Autobiography by Miles Davis and Quincy Troupe.

In it you will find some surprizing information regarding heroin use and the musicians who used...among a great many other tidbits of Jazz knowledge about Miles specifically, and other Jazz greats, in general.

A must read, IMHO.

It is a good read, but..........I'm not totally sure what the fact-to-fiction ratio is with that book. Not sure I'd take everything said as the absolute truth.

I think Miles' memory was often fairly selective, and he certainly enjoyed being dramatic....... B)

EDITED for spelling lameness......

Edited March 8, 2004 by Free For All

[Chrome]

Just got back from seeing a film about the MC5. Some of those guys had serious junk problems. It wasn't just limited to the jazz community.

Not limited to the music community, either.

Has anyone seen/read "Requiem for a Dream"? Both the book and the movie make pretty scary cases against getting hooked.

... and, on an entirely different note: MC5 kicks out the jams, motherfuckers!

[Upright Bill]

People get high (on anything) for a simple reason - it feels freakin' GREAT.

But that's just the tip of the iceberg, which is, if you'll remember, what sunk the Titanic...

I made this point in a pychology class that was taught by a local judge. He got irate with me claiming that I was wrong it goesn't feel good people only do it to escape their problems in life.

You can't keep people from using them by lying to them about it.

[JSngry]

Yeah, like getting away from your problems, if only momentarily, doesn't feel good in and of itself.

Never mind all the neuro-chemical stuff going on. Damn straight it feels good.

This guy was a judge? Of what, livestock at the county fair?

[Upright Bill]

Yeah, like getting away from your problems, if only momentarily, doesn't feel good in and of itself.

Never mind all the neuro-chemical stuff going on. Damn straight it feels good.

This guy was a judge? Of what, livestock at the county fair?

The scary thing is that he is a real live "elected" send-your-butt to prison judge. He got his masters in psychology before changing his mind an getting a JD.

[mikeweil]

Has anyone seen/read "Requiem for a Dream"? Both the book and the movie make pretty scary cases against getting hooked.

Truly a scary movie about a scary subject, with a use of images illustrating very well what might go on in the brain of an addicted person - and the humiliations one goes through to get a shot. I bought the DVD 'cause I dig Jennifer Connelly, but couldn't view this a second time.

The same - that it is sufficient to scare people off using drugs - has been said of William Burroughs' books. I doubt this. Consider how difficult it is to stop smoking! Or would you feel comfortable without a glass of beer or wine for too long? The potential for addiction seems to be part of human nature, it seems to me.

Would be interesting to know how many heroin addicts were over the years, and the percentage of jazz musicians or other artists - I think it is an old prejudice they fall for it easier than other people.

[BFrank]

Just got back from seeing a film about the MC5. Some of those guys had serious junk problems. It wasn't just limited to the jazz community.

... and, on an entirely different note: MC5 kicks out the jams, motherfuckers!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Upright Bill]

Just got back from seeing a film about the MC5. Some of those guys had serious junk problems. It wasn't just limited to the jazz community.

... and, on an entirely different note: MC5 kicks out the jams, motherfuckers!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I still get goosebumps when I hear:

"...and I want to know.. Are you Ready to testify? I give You a testimonial...the MC5"

or:

"Just put that mic in my hand and let me Kick Out The Jams"

or:

"Starts out with Brother Wayne Kramer, Brother Wayne Kramer"

This and Zappa was 95% of what I listened to in High School.

Has anybody else listened to Wayne Kramer's recent stuff?

[ghost of miles]

The same - that it is sufficient to scare people off using drugs - has been said of William Burroughs' books. I doubt this.

Well, I don't know--I read JUNKY, and it didn't really scare me, but it gave me the "feel" of heroin addiction enough to douse any curiousity that I had about it. That was one drug I never messed around with.

[Jazzmoose]

The same - that it is sufficient to scare people off using drugs - has been said of William Burroughs' books. I doubt this.

Well, I don't know--I read JUNKY, and it didn't really scare me, but it gave me the "feel" of heroin addiction enough to douse any curiousity that I had about it. That was one drug I never messed around with.

I steered clear of that one myself. Although, having had legal, prescribed opiates at one point in the past, I can certainly understand the attraction. Feels great, and everything's right with the world. At least ciggies had the plus side of making me cough and feel like shit...

[BFrank]

Upright Bill, if this film comes to your town (and you DO live in Michigan - it should), you should definitely check it out.

Here's a review from the local paper:

'MC5: A True Testimonial'

Documentary. Directed by David C. Thomas. (Not rated. 119 minutes, Roxie Theater through March 18).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"MC5: A True Testimonial'' is the kind of "Behind the Music" rockumentary that VH1 would never show.

It's not just that the '60s Detroit hard rockers fall outside the target demographic of the cable channel, but, more important, the young musicians dared raise the specter of rebellion in their rock 'n' roll.

Famous for the rallying cry "Kick out the jams, mother -- ," with their open embrace of radical politics, MC5 brought down on themselves the full wrath of the forces of oppression. The band's manager, John Sinclair, founder of the White Panther Party, was sentenced to 10 years in prison for the possession of two joints. The band's original record label dropped the group after the MC5 used the label's logo in an advertisement demanding that fans boycott Hudson's, the huge downtown Detroit department store.

The film carefully documents the joyous rise and despairing fall of the five-man band, letting the surviving members, guitarist Wayne Kramer, drummer Dennis Thompson and bassist Mike Davis -- tell the story with help from the widows of vocalist Rob Tyner and guitarist Fred "Sonic" Smith, Sinclair and a handful of others. A surprising amount of vintage footage -- sources ranging from television appearances to home movies and even including some FBI surveillance film -- bring those heady days vividly back to life.

Formed in 1965 by five teens, MC5 took the forefront of the rock scene that grew up around the Grande Ballroom. Instead of the blues-based peace-love- flowers approach of the San Francisco psychedelic bands, however, MC5 led a more aggressive assault that was echoed in the music of the other Detroit bands of the day -- Iggy and the Stooges, Alice Cooper, SRC, the Frost and even Grand Funk Railroad.

By 1968, the members of MC5 had completed their transformation into fist- waving radicals, although they wore ruffles and lamé instead of denim work shirts and blue jeans.

They lived together in a political commune and backed Sinclair's White Panther Party. "We were LSD-driven, total maniacs of the universe," said Sinclair.

After MC5's original label booted the band, Bruce Springsteen's future producer Jon Landau, making his first record, supervised the arduous sessions that produced the band's second album. Finding their welcome wearing thin on this side of the Atlantic, the group started working extensively in Europe.

At the end the band opened a European tour in Helsinki, Finland, with a guest drummer, a British bassist and only two remaining original members. Back in the States, the band tried one last performance at the Grande, but junk- sick and miserable, Kramer walked off the stage in the middle of the performance before a slim crowd. "I looked in the faces of the audience," he said, "and they all knew I was a fraud. ... That was the end of MC5."

The film is a touching, detailed portrait of an important and often overlooked band. Filmmaker David C. Thomas has done a wonderful job of stitching his filmed interviews together with the extensive vintage footage he scrounged.

-- Joel Selvin

[Dr. Rat]

The same - that it is sufficient to scare people off using drugs - has been said of William Burroughs' books. I doubt this.

Well, I don't know--I read JUNKY, and it didn't really scare me, but it gave me the "feel" of heroin addiction enough to douse any curiousity that I had about it. That was one drug I never messed around with.

I steered clear of that one myself. Although, having had legal, prescribed opiates at one point in the past, I can certainly understand the attraction. Feels great, and everything's right with the world. At least ciggies had the plus side of making me cough and feel like shit...

In case that ailment of yours ever comes back, there was a good article on poppy tea in Harper's a few years ago. . .

[patricia]

A very dear friend, addicted to heroin for over twenty years once tried to explain to me what kept him from seriously trying to quit using. The cost was not an issue and he never had to steal to buy drugs. He had a very successful business.

I had asked him why he would continue to do something that, apart from being illegal, was taking over his life and holding him prisoner, since there was always the chance of death from an overdose, or being thrown into jail, derailing everything.

He told me at the time that the euphoria he knew he would experience was like the best sex imaginable.

At the time, I had no idea what he meant. Now I do. I suppose if one were guaranteed that feeling, the drug would be very seductive.

Sadly, he did overdose and died some years ago and I still miss him.

Edited March 8, 2004 by patricia

[Alexander]

Burroughs' "Junky" is a great book, and it shows the harrowing nature of addiction from the inside out, but with an almost clinical detachment. Highly recommended.

[JohnJ]

The following always sends a chill down my spine when I hear it. I think Lou Reed sums it up as well as anybody ever has.

Velvet-Underground's Lyrics - Heroin Lyrics

(reed)

I don’t know just where I’m going

But I’m gonna try for the kingdom, if I can

’cause it makes me feel like I’m a man

When I put a spike into my vein

And I’ll tell ya, things aren’t quite the same

When I’m rushing on my run

And I feel just like jesus’ son

And I guess that I just don’t know

And I guess that I just don’t know

I have made the big decision

I’m gonna try to nullify my life

’cause when the blood begins to flow

When it shoots up the dropper’s neck

When I’m closing in on death

And you can’t help me not, you guys

And all you sweet girls with all your sweet silly talk

You can all go take a walk

And I guess that I just don’t know

And I guess that I just don’t know

I wish that I was born a thousand years ago

I wish that I’d sail the darkened seas

On a great big clipper ship

Going from this land here to that

In a sailor’s suit and cap

Away from the big city

Where a man can not be free

Of all of the evils of this town

And of himself, and those around

Oh, and I guess that I just don’t know

Oh, and I guess that I just don’t know

Heroin, be the death of me

Heroin, it’s my wife and it’s my life

Because a mainer to my vein

Leads to a center in my head

And then I’m better off and dead

Because when the smack begins to flow

I really don’t care anymore

About all the jim-jim’s in this town

And all the politicians makin’ crazy sounds

And everybody puttin’ everybody else down

And all the dead bodies piled up in mounds

’cause when the smack begins to flow

Then I really don’t care anymore

Ah, when the heroin is in my blood

And that blood is in my head

Then thank God that I’m as good as dead

Then thank your God that I’m not aware

And thank God that I just don’t care

And I guess I just don’t know

And I guess I just don’t know

[Upright Bill]

Upright Bill, if this film comes to your town (and you DO live in Michigan - it should), you should definitely check it out.

I've been aware of it for a while and watching for it to come out either locally or on DVD.

I became aware of them when I was a freshman in high school (1967). The things that you love at that age never really go away. When I got divorced ~15 years ago I did the usual stuff that freshly divorced people do, including the topic of this thread and getting CDs of the music that I listened to in high school. MC5, The Frost, Zappa, Iggy

I never listen to rock anymore except when that mood comes along and then its full volume "Human Being Lawnmower", "Sweet Jane", "First Day of May" ....

Gawd, I hope my kids don't read this forum

[Adam]

I think in the second-to-last verse, it's "better off than dead" not "better off and dead."

Great song that does a good job of reproducing that experience (or so I've heard).

I'm more interested in trying opium, but I haven't tried any opiates in my life.