I'd buy this

[danasgoodstuff]

from a session Alfred Lion an Mike Cuscuna didn't think was up to snuff.  Sounds at least release quality to me...what say you?

[paul secor]

Sounds fairly ordinary to me. I can understand why Alfred Lion didn't release it. On the other hand, I know that there are those who want to hear everything that Lee Morgan recorded.

[Claude Schlouch]

11 minutes ago, paul secor said:

Sounds fairly ordinary to me. I can understand why Alfred Lion didn't release it. On the other hand, I know that there are those who want to hear everything that Lee Morgan recorded.

And so many other musicians...Grant Green, Kenny Dorham, Ike Quebec among others.... which sleep in the vaults for eternity.

[erwbol]

Dull. Too much stuff that was eventually released might as well have stayed in the vaults.

[JSngry]

 

[danasgoodstuff]

Part of it came out as bonus tracks on the CD reissue of 6th Sense, IIRC.

[Milestones]

Tom Cat is a great Lee Morgan record, and it sat in the vaults for 16 years.

It took 26 years for Grant Green's Matador to get an American release.

[felser]

2 hours ago, Milestones said:

Tom Cat is a great Lee Morgan record, and it sat in the vaults for 16 years.

It took 26 years for Grant Green's Matador to get an American release.

'Infinity' took a decade.  Even 'Search For the New Land', one of his very best, took several years IIRC.  And I'm in for any of that unissued prime-period Blue Note, even if "dull and fairly ordinary" by comparison.

Edited 24 Mar 2018 by felser

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

3 hours ago, felser said:

'Infinity' took a decade.  Even 'Search For the New Land', one of his very best, took several years IIRC.  And I'm in for any of that unissued prime-period Blue Note, even if "dull and fairly ordinary" by comparison.

I think that was partly the effect of 'Sidewinder', which spent seven months on the pop charts. Then Blue Note had to cope with another big hit - 'Song for my father'. Don't forget, the label was a bit of a one man, one lad and a dog firm. How much in the way of manpower resource does a firm need to handle a big hit album? 'Search for the new land' was delayed a bit longer than was usual with Blue Note, as a result, but was on the R&B chart in September 1966.

MG

[danasgoodstuff]

If you look at the discography for '67 on, after the label was sold and then Alfred left not too long after, things seem to have been quite chaotic and a lot of stuff wasn't issued at the time.  I don't think this session is brilliant, but I'd certainly say 'release quality' - it's not like anyone is really struggling.  Plenty of things no better have been issued on BN, and some worse, IMHO, YMMV, etc.

[mikeweil]

Three of the seven tracks listed in the discography for this Lee Morgan session were released as bonus tracks on the CD edition of The Sixth Sense.

[Holy Ghost]

At this point, ANYTHING, that gets released from the "vaults" is worth hearing, cuz we want to hear it.

[Rooster_Ties]

On 3/24/2018 at 11:32 PM, felser said:

'Infinity' took a decade.

Infinity is my very favorite Lee/Jackie pairing on record (of many).

 

Heck, Etcetera may be my very favorite Wayne leader date, in terms of the playing and personnel, and it sat in the vaults almost 10 years too.

[felser]

5 hours ago, Holy Ghost said:

At this point, ANYTHING, that gets released from the "vaults" is worth hearing, cuz we want to hear it.

True dat.

[Brad]

7 hours ago, Holy Ghost said:

At this point, ANYTHING, that gets released from the "vaults" is worth hearing, cuz we want to hear it.

Does that mean anything that was so poor in quality should be released just because "we" want to hear it? 

I'd say no. 

[JSngry]

I'm not totally sure about this, but weren't some of this session released as boncus cuts on the Sixth Scents CD?

[mikeweil]

Yep - see my post above.

 

[erwbol]

I think a lot of Lee Morgan albums are quite dull. You know, starting with a funky track. I know Search for the New Land wasn't released immediately although it did get a catalog number. I have only a couple of Morgan albums and love them all: The Sidewinder, Search for the New Land, The Gigolo, Live at the Lighthouse, Lee Morgan (1971). 

On 3/23/2018 at 2:12 AM, Milestones said:

Tom Cat is a great Lee Morgan record, and it sat in the vaults for 16 years.

It took 26 years for Grant Green's Matador to get an American release.

BUT previewing Tom Cat and the likes bored the shit out of me.

On the other hand, the alternate takes of Out to Lunch and Mode for Joe released only recently in Japan for Blue Note's 75th anniversary are very dear to me.

I also agree Matador, Etcetera, etc. are great albums.

Edited 25 Mar 2018 by erwbol

[Dan Gould]

34 minutes ago, erwbol said:

I think a lot of Lee Morgan albums are quite dull. You know, starting with a funky track. I know Search for the New Land wasn't released immediately although it did get a catalog number. I have only a couple of Morgan albums and love them all: The Sidewinder, Search for the New Land, The Gigolo, Live at the Lighthouse, Lee Morgan (1971). 

BUT previewing Tom Cat and the likes bored the shit out of me.

On the other hand, the alternate takes of Out to Lunch and Mode for Joe released only recently in Japan for Blue Note's 75th anniversary are very dear to me.

I also agree Matador, Etcetera, etc. are great albums.

If these are the only Morgan albums you have, great, have at them. You're not the person who would care to hear the Blues for Mr. Tatum session.

You do realize that just because a lot of Morgan albums are "quite dull" and "bore the shit out of you" that to others they epitomize a style of jazz that is the mainstay of their collection?

[Rooster_Ties]

31 minutes ago, erwbol said:

On the other hand, the alternate takes of Out to Lunch and Mode for Joe released only recently in Japan for Blue Note's 75th anniversary are very dear to me.

Totally agree about the new extra material from Out to Lunch and Mode for Joe (just one new alternate that's unique to the Japanese SHM of Mode (of the title track), but I thought it was a real eye-opener - and worth every penny).  The new SHM alternates on Unity were also really valuable too.

[Daniel A]

21 hours ago, danasgoodstuff said:

I don't think this session is brilliant, but I'd certainly say 'release quality' - it's not like anyone is really struggling.

There is a bass solo that is less convincing. I think it might have been his first recording session.

There was a time when I eagerly sought out all Lee Morgan albums I could find, but these days I don't play them much. The one date which was not released at the time that I am still returning to is The Procrastinator. I sold Sixth Sense many years ago.

Morgan could turn in a superb solo, even during the "later" years. For instance, I think his solo on Jackie McLean's 'Blue Fable' (unreleased at the time) is a classic. I just don't find that many memorable moments on Morgan's own albums during the second half of the 60s. 

[erwbol]

2 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

If these are the only Morgan albums you have, great, have at them. You're not the person who would care to hear the Blues for Mr. Tatum session.

You do realize that just because a lot of Morgan albums are "quite dull" and "bore the shit out of you" that to others they epitomize a style of jazz that is the mainstay of their collection?

There are plenty of people who think the so-so sentimental pop tunes from their youth is the greatest music ever. They feel they are right because there is strength in numbers, right?

Edited 25 Mar 2018 by erwbol

[JSngry]

Can't say that I've ever found Lee Morgan "dull", but I can say that the deeper into the vaults they got, the more I understood why they were in no hurry to release those things. But that took a while, for real. The two-fers and the LT shit was all good with me.

Will also freely stipulate that I was alive and engaged in some of the post-Lee Morgan socio/musical aftershocks that went on for quite a while, and that I had pretty much heard all the Lee Morgan records I "had" to hear, by, like, 1990-95, somewhere in there (although I kept/keep listening to this day), but still, that was a long time, 20+ years. But I can see how somebody who didn't get imprinted like that might not have the basic "recognition", and therefore relatability, of what all that music "was" We all come from where we come, ok?

But geez, Lee Morgan might have had a fixed language, and on some days he amped it up higher than on others, but I don't think "dull" would ever apply to him (except for The Rajah, and that date with George coleman/Julian Preister, but I seem to be in the minority on that). That motherfucker had the fire, whether or not it always burned as brightly/hotly as it could, hey, you know, do the math and apply it to your own life, but never was it not there.

[Holy Ghost]

On 3/25/2018 at 10:49 AM, Brad said:

Does that mean anything that was so poor in quality should be released just because "we" want to hear it? 

I'd say no. 

Brad,

 

You're right, I shouldn't have presumed "everyone" wants to hear what's still in the vaults, I'll rephrase it: "I" want to hear everything that's still in the vaults.

[Brad]

5 minutes ago, Holy Ghost said:

Brad,

 

You're right, I shouldn't have presumed "everyone" wants to hear what's still in the vaults, I'll rephrase it: "I" want to hear everything that's still in the vaults.

HG, I just re-read my post. Hope it didn’t come across as confrontational.  Maybe I should have said that I don’t want to hear something if it’s not good quality as I don’t want my view of an artist like Lee Morgsn lowered as a result.