Stonewall15

SACD Question

33 posts in this topic

I recently acquired the Columbia Miles Davis "Kind Of Blue" SACD (not a hybrid SACD). When I played it on my SACD player I had to turn the volume way, way up to hear the music. To make sure that I did not have a player problem I immediately played another of my SACDs and it played fine with normal volume. Does anyone have any idea what is wrong with the Miles SACD?  Has anyone else had this problem with SACDs?

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There were two versions of this SACD sold by Sony here in the US - multichannel & stereo. Did you buy the multichannel version and are playing it back in stereo mode so you're only hearing part of the mix? If so, go into your player's settings and either use the downmix function or set it to default to the stereo section of the SACD. Almost all multichannel SACDs have a stereo mix but you have to make sure your player is set to play it.

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5 hours ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

There were two versions of this SACD sold by Sony here in the US - multichannel & stereo. Did you buy the multichannel version and are playing it back in stereo mode so you're only hearing part of the mix? If so, go into your player's settings and either use the downmix function or set it to default to the stereo section of the SACD. Almost all multichannel SACDs have a stereo mix but you have to make sure your player is set to play it.

That's interesting.  I have a multichannel/stereo edition SACD of Kind of Blue that isn't a hybrid, but I know that a hybrid was released.  Of course non-hybrid simply means it has no redbook layer.  I checked discogs as completely as I could but couldn't find a multichannel only SACD of the album.  There are stereo only versions of Kind of Blue in SACD.  It's a simple enough matter to switch any SACD player between multichannel and stereo in my experience provided the disc has both mixes, which this one certainly must.  Come to think of it, I can't recall any of my SACD's being multichannel only.  A prize to the person who can name one, and if it's Kind of Blue, well, I'll eat my hat.

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Another hybrid SACD (stereo only) of Kind of Blue was released by Mobile Fidelity, in a limited edition: MFSL SACD

Edited by J.A.W.

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12 hours ago, ATR said:

That's interesting.  I have a multichannel/stereo edition SACD of Kind of Blue that isn't a hybrid, but I know that a hybrid was released.  Of course non-hybrid simply means it has no redbook layer.  I checked discogs as completely as I could but couldn't find a multichannel only SACD of the album.  There are stereo only versions of Kind of Blue in SACD.  It's a simple enough matter to switch any SACD player between multichannel and stereo in my experience provided the disc has both mixes, which this one certainly must.  Come to think of it, I can't recall any of my SACD's being multichannel only.  A prize to the person who can name one, and if it's Kind of Blue, well, I'll eat my hat.

"Kind of Blue" is definitely not an SACD that was ever issued with only a multichannel mix. I didn't mean to imply that. I can't think of the title right now, but I thought that there were a few classical SACDs that didn't have a stereo mix... wait... thinking about it more, I may be confusing this with several DVD-A discs. For instance, Natalie Merchant's "Tiger Lilly" DVD-A does not have a stereo mix on it.

Edited by Kevin Bresnahan

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Kevin- many thanx for explaining my SACD problem.

I play my SACDs on a Sony DVD player and cannot default to the stereo mode. Stereo/Multi-channel SACD for a Stereo-

Edited by Stonewall15
Correction.

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Is the stereo version of KOB on SACD remastered? Or is it from the CD master? 

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2 hours ago, Stonewall15 said:

Kevin- many thanx for explaining my SACD problem.

I play my SACDs on a Sony DVD player and cannot default to the stereo mode. I would like to trade my "Kind Of Blue" Stereo/Multi-channel SACD for a Stereo-only version. Anyone- please PM me if you are interested in trading.

Do SACDs play on DVD players?  What about Blu Ray players? 

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2 hours ago, Stonewall15 said:

Kevin- many thanx for explaining my SACD problem.

I play my SACDs on a Sony DVD player and cannot default to the stereo mode. I would like to trade my "Kind Of Blue" Stereo/Multi-channel SACD for a Stereo-only version. Anyone- please PM me if you are interested in trading.

Which Sony player do you have? At the least, it should have the ability to downmix to stereo. Also, if the player has multichannel capability, it really, really should have a setting somewhere to have it default to the stereo sector on the SACDs. Not everyone has a surround setup but most have at least stereo one.

From your previous posting history, it looks like you have the Sony BDP-BX37. On page 25 of the owner's manual ( https://docs.sony.com/release//BDPS370_BX37.pdf ), it says that there is a setting to change the SACD playback from multichannel to stereo.

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It also says that you have the ability to turn on downmix, but I still think that should be done only if you can't switch to the stereo playback sector of your SACD.

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BTW - if you do have the Sony BDP-BX37 and you're still using the HDMI connection for SACD playback, you should try hooking up a pair of audio RCA cables to the stereo output on the back of the player (run it to an AUX or CD input on your preamp/receiver) so that you can compare the two DACs (the one in the player vs. the one in your external DAC that you're running your HDMI cable to). The results might surprise you. The reason I say this is that if you are using the HDMI for SACD audio, the player is converting it to PCM and then your external DAC is converting that PCM to analog. The stereo outputs will probably be straight DSD to analog.

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2 hours ago, Scott Dolan said:

The 1997 Columbia release had already corrected the speed to restore it to the correct pitch. 

Is the SACD from the MoFi remaster? 

What?  The SACD is MoFi's remastering.  I presume that MoFi remastered from a correct speed tape.  I can't recall exactly how the speed was corrected for the '97 release, whether it involved running the tape at a different speed or using a safety copy that was correct speed.  There are two different considerations here.  One is what the source tape was and the second is whether a new master was created from the source tape.  In the case of the MoFi release the answer is that a new master was created from the source tape.

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So MoFi only released it on SACD, or did they also release it on CD? 

And I'd have to go back and read the liner notes for the '97 release. Pretty sure they said they used the original master tapes, and corrected the speed while remastering. 

edit

Just found this: 

"For decades, musicians were aware that when playing along with side one of Kind of Blue it was necessary to retune their instruments to a slightly sharper pitch so as to be in tune with the recording. This anomaly was rectified in 1992 with the release of the gold Mastersound reissue of Kind of Blue, using the tape recorded at the correct pitch from the safety machine. The 1997 reissue went a step further, remixing the safety tape (at the correct pitch) and offered the only known alternative take of the whole session, the composition that opens with four bars of Bill Evans’ ‘Peace Piece."

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26 minutes ago, Scott Dolan said:

So MoFi only released it on SACD, or did they also release it on CD? 

Mobile Fidelity stopped releasing CDs years ago, they only do hybrid SACDs and LPs nowadays. I've got most of their Miles Davis SACDs and they're terrific.

Miles Davis hybrid MFSL SACDs

Edited by J.A.W.

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Is there a discernable difference between the MoFi remaster and the Legacy Edition? 

And can hybid SACDs be played on a regular CD player? 

Edited by Scott Dolan

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11 minutes ago, Scott Dolan said:

Is there a discernable difference between the MoFi remaster and the Legacy Edition? 

And can hybid SACDs be played on a regular CD player? 

I have the 2CD Legacy Edition and the MFSL hybrid SACD of Kind of Blue, but never compared them, so I can't comment. Others did and preferred the MFSL because it sounded warmer.

"Hybrid" means that the disc has both a CD-layer and an SACD-layer, so yes, a hybrid SACD can be played on most regular CD-players, though in my experience some older players, from the 1990s for example, occasionally do have problems, which modern CD-players usually don't have. I have a 3-year-old Naim CD5 XS CD-player and never had a problem.

Edited by J.A.W.

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I just got done doing a comparison between the 1997 release and the Legacy Edition. There is a very, very small difference. Most notably the bass being slid back in the mix ever so slightly, and the piano being moved slightly inside the original hard left pan. 

Pretty sublime, but only if you’re REALLY listening closely. 

 

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3 hours ago, Scott Dolan said:

So MoFi only released it on SACD, or did they also release it on CD? 

And I'd have to go back and read the liner notes for the '97 release. Pretty sure they said they used the original master tapes, and corrected the speed while remastering. 

edit

Just found this: 

"For decades, musicians were aware that when playing along with side one of Kind of Blue it was necessary to retune their instruments to a slightly sharper pitch so as to be in tune with the recording. This anomaly was rectified in 1992 with the release of the gold Mastersound reissue of Kind of Blue, using the tape recorded at the correct pitch from the safety machine. The 1997 reissue went a step further, remixing the safety tape (at the correct pitch) and offered the only known alternative take of the whole session, the composition that opens with four bars of Bill Evans’ ‘Peace Piece."

I'm really confused. (As I  often am.) Is the '97 release the Legacy release? And I never thought of the alternative take of Flamenco Sketches as opening  with Peace Piece but as referencing Some Other Time (which morphed into Peace Piece on Riverside). IIRC Evans even quotes Some Other Time in his solo on the alternate take of Flamenco Sketches. 

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No, the Legacy Edition is the 50th anniversary release from 2009. Different masters/mixes. 

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So the '97 release was the cd with the original cover and the alternate take of Flamenco Sketches?  And it was the first one after the Gold one to have the correct speed?  And  how does the Gold one (which is one of the ones I have) compare to the MoFi?  I have the gold disc, the SACD  (which is multi Channel and stereo), the Legacy edition, a  "DualDisc"  which has the stereo edition on one side and a DVD as well as a multi Channel 5.1 version on the other.  And of course I have it all again in the Miles/Trane box set.  I use to have  the Lp and the  first cd issue.  Am I crazy?   (I also own three cd versions of "Ellington Indigoes". )  

Edited by medjuck

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6 hours ago, medjuck said:

So the '97 release was the cd with the original cover and the alternate take of Flamenco Sketches?  And it was the first one after the Gold one to have the correct speed?

Correct.

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On ‎4‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 0:34 PM, Kevin Bresnahan said:

Which Sony player do you have? At the least, it should have the ability to downmix to stereo. Also, if the player has multichannel capability, it really, really should have a setting somewhere to have it default to the stereo sector on the SACDs. Not everyone has a surround setup but most have at least stereo one.

From your previous posting history, it looks like you have the Sony BDP-BX37. On page 25 of the owner's manual ( https://docs.sony.com/release//BDPS370_BX37.pdf ), it says that there is a setting to change the SACD playback from multichannel to stereo.

Kevin- you are correct- my player is the Sony BDP-BX37. Thanx to your information I was able to re-set the playback mode and now I can play my "Kind Of Blue" SACD.

I use the optical output from my player which goes to a separate DAC and then to my pre-amp. Is this satisfactory instead of using the RCA cables?

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