Rooster_Ties

Woody Shaw Quintet Vol 1 – At Onkel PO's Carnegie Hall Hamburg 1982

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I'm sure the music on the Shaw is excellent.  Question.  The disc is pricey.  I own a LOT of live Shaw from the 70's/80's.  On the margin, does this disc add anything new in terms of understanding/personnel/repertoire to things like the Half Note label releases, or is it just another typically excellent show from the same period?  For that matter, same question on the Hubbard. Thx.

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Pricey? 16$ I think ...

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7 hours ago, king ubu said:

Pricey? 16$ I think ...

For me, that's pricey.  But that's not my question.

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6 hours ago, felser said:

For me, that's pricey.  But that's not my question.

That's sad - I think music has gotten way too cheap, and if even avid listeners (not just casual consumers) are willing to pay for it ... either way, I'm afraid I'm not familiar enough with all the HighNotes to offer a qualified answer to your question. Off the top of my head I'd say "On Tour Volume 1" is the best of the entire bunch. And that possibly you can skip the Onkel Pö disc, albeit it's very good.

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On 4/21/2018 at 0:21 PM, felser said:

I'm sure the music on the Shaw is excellent.  Question.  The disc is pricey.  I own a LOT of live Shaw from the 70's/80's.  On the margin, does this disc add anything new in terms of understanding/personnel/repertoire to things like the Half Note label releases, or is it just another typically excellent show from the same period?  For that matter, same question on the Hubbard. Thx.

The Hubbard won't do much to change your mind, it's Freddie during the Columbia period really stretching, with a typical set list.  "The Love Connection" is superior to the studio version, and that's the only tune that's fairly unusual in the setlist from official live releases.  I like the album, some excellent Billy Childs work as well.  I do feel the Elvin and Griff/Lockjaw releases are definitely worth having.

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20 minutes ago, CJ Shearn said:

The Hubbard won't do much to change your mind, it's Freddie during the Columbia period really stretching, with a typical set list.  "The Love Connection" is superior to the studio version, and that's the only tune that's fairly unusual in the setlist from official live releases.  I like the album, some excellent Billy Childs work as well.  I do feel the Elvin and Griff/Lockjaw releases are definitely worth having.

Thanks.  Yeah, I'm definitely looking at the Elvin.  

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9 hours ago, felser said:

Thanks.  Yeah, I'm definitely looking at the Elvin.  

The Elvin is intense, Carter Jefferson on tenor, many tunes clock in at 20 to 30 minutes, and Marvin Horne on guitar who apparently lives in NY, and has been woefully under represented on records.  His name, Dwayne Armstrong, Fumio Karashima and Andy McCloud were all new names to me.  I have to wonder if the Griff/Lock concert was part of a Norman Granz JATP package considering the time frame? Griff had appeared with Basie on Pablo that summer at Montreux and Lockjaw had already been recording for them.

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Anyone with the vinyl of either the Elvin or Woody - do the song lengths that exceed the "recommended" lengths for an LP side have a negative effect on the sound?  I'd like to have these on vinyl but if the sound is compromised, I suspect I will just buy the CDs.  Thanks in advance.

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13 minutes ago, Jay said:

Anyone with the vinyl of either the Elvin or Woody - do the song lengths that exceed the "recommended" lengths for an LP side have a negative effect on the sound?  I'd like to have these on vinyl but if the sound is compromised, I suspect I will just buy the CDs.  Thanks in advance.

I have the Woody Shaw set on vinyl and I have not noticed any adverse effects on sound quality. The longest side is the A side with 19:28 minutes, which is nothing unusual. As mentioned earlier, opposite to the information given on the cover and on discogs etc., "Diane" is part of the D side, not of the C side. The sound (and pressing) quality of this set is very high. My only criticism is related to the use of paper inner sleeves (which I immediately replaced upon receipt of this set).

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That Woody Shaw Group with Steve Turre, Mulgrew Miller, Stafford James and Tony Reedus was fantastic. After that european tour they recorded for "Elektra Musician", which was a hopeful label led by former CBS boss Bruce Lundvall.
There´s an interview with Woody at the end, were he referred to a "tedious tour through Europe they had done before".
I still had the opportunity to hear that great group early in 1983, but I think after 1983 Woody disbanded and for the last unhappy years he had to travel much as a single with pick up groups, though there were still great moments when he had Gary Allen etc., but the last time I saw him in Vienna was a very painful experience.....

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The tunes on the Shaw are not  on the other live CD's by this group. so I ordered it and am realling looking forward to it.  Also ordered the Elvin Jones and am looking to get the Hubbard.   The final Shaw albums on Muse (Setting Standards, Solid, Imagination) were not enjoyable experiences for me, nor was the "In Your Own Sweet Way" album (though maybe I need to revisit them).  Maybe just a case of heightened expectations on my part given what had preceded them, but they were really tame affairs to my ears.

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1 hour ago, felser said:

The final Shaw albums on Muse (Setting Standards, Solid, Imagination) were not enjoyable experiences for me, nor was the "In Your Own Sweet Way" album (though maybe I need to revisit them).  Maybe just a case of heightened expectations on my part given what had preceded them, but they were really tame affairs to my ears.

Agree, Shaw's final Muse dates aren't so hot.

But "In Your Own Sweet Way" has always been one of Shaw's very best live dates, bar none (any era), at least for me.  It's a disc I've bought whenever I've found used copies, just to give to people, it's that good.

Edited by Rooster_Ties

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1 hour ago, Rooster_Ties said:

Agree, Shaw's final Muse dates aren't so hot.

But "In Your Own Sweet Way" has always been one of Shaw's very best live dates, bar none (any era), at least for me.  It's a disc I've bought whenever I've found used copies, just to give to people, it's that good.

I have it, will give it another listen,  thanks.

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2 hours ago, felser said:

I have it, will give it another listen,  thanks.

Be sure to report back! - re: "In Your Own Sweet Way".  I also thought this new Woody Shaw things was kinda pricy (and I already have a ton of live Woody Shaw), do I really need any more?  Probably not,  How can I really justify it?

But in a fit a weakness, I tacked it on an order with some other stuff from Dusty Groove -- and I couldn't be more pleased with how damn good it is.  I wish there were some full-length uploads to YouTube that I could link to.

Honestly, this "Onkel PO's Carnegie Hall Hamburg 1982" thing is one of THE very best Woody Shaw live dates I've ever heard.  Red hot performance, and fantastic sound quality (and actually, I'm really *not* a stickler about sound quality, normally) -- but the overall quality of this new one really stood out to me, right from the very first spin - in just about every way.

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6 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:

Be sure to report back! - re: "In Your Own Sweet Way".  I also thought this new Woody Shaw things was kinda pricy (and I already have a ton of live Woody Shaw), do I really need any more?  Probably not,  How can I really justify it?

But in a fit a weakness, I tacked it on an order with some other stuff from Dusty Groove -- and I couldn't be more pleased with how damn good it is.  I wish there were some full-length uploads to YouTube that I could link to.

Honestly, this "Onkel PO's Carnegie Hall Hamburg 1982" thing is one of THE very best Woody Shaw live dates I've ever heard.  Red hot performance, and fantastic sound quality (and actually, I'm really *not* a stickler about sound quality, normally) -- but the overall quality of this new one really stood out to me, right from the very first spin - in just about every way.

Just getting a long, live "Katrina Ballerina" alone was enough to  pull me in.

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5 hours ago, Rooster_Ties said:

Be sure to report back! - re: "In Your Own Sweet Way".  I also thought this new Woody Shaw things was kinda pricy (and I already have a ton of live Woody Shaw), do I really need any more?  Probably not,  How can I really justify it?

But in a fit a weakness, I tacked it on an order with some other stuff from Dusty Groove -- and I couldn't be more pleased with how damn good it is.  I wish there were some full-length uploads to YouTube that I could link to.

Honestly, this "Onkel PO's Carnegie Hall Hamburg 1982" thing is one of THE very best Woody Shaw live dates I've ever heard.  Red hot performance, and fantastic sound quality (and actually, I'm really *not* a stickler about sound quality, normally) -- but the overall quality of this new one really stood out to me, right from the very first spin - in just about every way.

I may have to get this if you rank it that high.

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1 hour ago, CJ Shearn said:

I may have to get this if you rank it that high.

I'm sure some YouTube uploads of a track or two will materialize at some point - no harm in waiting until that day, and making a more fully informed choice.

That said, the whole thing just burns!

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I am enjoying both the Hubbard and the Shaw.  Great opportunity to contrast the two trumpeters, bands and tunes.  Giving the edge to the Shaw, but having Caliman is nice on the Hubbard.  

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On 4/21/2018 at 10:47 AM, JSngry said:

Do, if you wanted a Po' Boy sandwich before, after, or during a show, could you get one at the Onkel Pö's Carnegie Hall Deli?

No more Carnegie Hall Deli in NYC :(

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Thanks to Rooster_Ties for recommending this outstanding release. After reading this thread, I was inclined to listen to the 2-lp version of this release. Thrilled with the music, sound and 2-lp packaging !

Edited by charlesp

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58 minutes ago, Brad said:

No more Carnegie Hall Deli in NYC :(

Po Carnegie Hall!

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4 hours ago, Brad said:

No more Carnegie Hall Deli in NYC :(

Oh no, did not know this. Hope Katz's is still around. I used to go to Katz for a pastrami sandwich about twice per year when I was visiting NYC to work with a client 13-15 years ago. Every time, an elderly lady attending their customers recognized me and chatted with me. It was unbelievable given the number of customers she must have seen every day. Sorry for being off-topic.

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As far as I know Katz's is still around. There is still a Carnegie Deli in Vegas but obviously it's not the same thing. 

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