Breaking: Ford to discontinue its sedans in the US market

[GA Russell]

Ford will concentrate on SUVs and trucks for the US.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=Ford+US+sedans&filters=tnTID%3a"4D1CFC31-9EAE-463f-812C-23B669DA37B9"+tnVersion%3a"2445564"+segment%3a"popularnow.carousel"+tnCol%3a"32"+tnOrder%3a"327b3406-7741-4d8f-8312-ba472ff9d8d5"&FORM=BSPN01&crslsl=4332&efirst=27

[Kevin Bresnahan]

They seem to have a short memory. During the last spike in gas prices, when they shot up to almost $4.00 a gallon, a lot of people dumped their gas-guzzling SUVs and started buying more fuel efficient cars. I know someone who picked up a 2 year old mint Ford Explorer that cost almost $50K new for around $8K. If this happens again, their decision to focus on these poor gas mileage trucks & SUVs may backfire.

[/NO POLITICS INTENDED/] And BTW, this is a direct result of the new administration (no names please) rolling back the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards two weeks ago. If the CAFE MPG standards were still in place, there is no way that Ford could do this as their fleet's average gas mileage will not come anywhere near the old federal standard of 54.4 MPG by 2025. [/NO POLITICS INTENDED/]

[Scott Dolan]

Wow! Talk about an end of an era! 

Surprising since the Fusion seems to be everywhere these days. 

At least the Mustang will live on. 

[JSngry]

Let's talk about all the high-profile (in the height sense) trucks and SUVs that are everywhere. At what point do we address the parking lot dangers that come with mixing bigass vehicles and normal (or are they now abnormal?) cars, where you can't back out of a parking space without silently squealing because you can't see shit on either side? Or the longer than life trucks that extend inches over the fire line even after being fully pulled up to the curb?

People can drive what they like, that's the beauty of USA INC. but danger lurks in an outdated parking paradigm.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

FWIW, my wife & I are on our 6th Toyota in the past 20 years, with 4 of them being hybrids and one of those hybrids being a plug-in model - my current ride - a 2017 Toyota Prius Prime. In the summer on my 63 mile commute, I average over 65 mpg by combining hybrid gas with pure electric driving. Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, Chevrolet, Volvo, BMW and other car companies have all committed themselves to making higher mileage cars by turning to hybrid gas/electric cars. What did Ford do? They licensed Toyota's hybrid system and dropped it into the Focus and Edge, in the process jacking the price up thousands of dollars beyond the regular gas-propelled model.

I think it was clear that Ford was doing this to plod along toward compliance with CAFE standards. They failed to market their hybrids, failed to stock them at many dealers, failed to work to control the costs (making them tougher to sell) and in general, everything in their power to keep Ford hybrids from ever being a "player". They probably didn't care if they sold 10 of them a year - they only seemed to make them for the sole reason of raising their fleet average.

As much as I am a fan of "Buy American" as anyone (and two of our Toyotas were made here), a part of me hopes that this backfires on Ford forcing them to have to get back to making more fuel efficient cars and less trucks & SUVs. As Jim mentions above, Ford's insistence on catering to the "monster truck" fanbase, is not only causing problems for other drivers, it isn't doing anything for our environment nor, when you come right down to it, our economy. These huge trucks burn gasoline in large quantities. If I had a Ford F250 instead of my Prius, my commuting gas costs would quadruple (at least). Taking a price of gas at $2.70, my commute cost would go from $5.20/day to $20.80/day. That's $104 a week and almost $5,000 over a year.

I'm too lazy to comb through the web for the environmental reasons this sucks. I would hope everyone here already knows this anyway.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Kevin Bresnahan

[Patrick]

My wife and I are quite pleased with our 2014 Ford Fusion hybrid. Is the Fusion franchise such a money loser competing against similar not huge (or tiny) vehicles from other makers? Or is Ford management over-correcting given the CAFE relaxation?

[Scott Dolan]

My guess is the Fusion doesn't do well alongside market competitors like the Accord, Altima, and Camry. Though I've not looked at the numbers. The Fusion is a really nice car, though. 

[T.D.]

10 hours ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

They seem to have a short memory. During the last spike in gas prices, when they shot up to almost $4.00 a gallon, a lot of people dumped their gas-guzzling SUVs and started buying more fuel efficient cars. I know someone who picked up a 2 year old mint Ford Explorer that cost almost $50K new for around $8K. If this happens again, their decision to focus on these poor gas mileage trucks & SUVs may backfire.

[/NO POLITICS INTENDED/] And BTW, this is a direct result of the new administration (no names please) rolling back the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards two weeks ago. If the CAFE MPG standards were still in place, there is no way that Ford could do this as their fleet's average gas mileage will not come anywhere near the old federal standard of 54.4 MPG by 2025. [/NO POLITICS INTENDED/]

+1 on all counts.

In the mid 20-oughts, all the US auto mfrs did the same thing, only to go bankrupt in the economic downturn.

Anecdote: when I started in the finance business in 1983, I learned that Wall St. considered all the US automakers so stupid that their stocks traded at puny multiples of book value, and the investment community preferred that the car companies pay out the largest dividends possible rather than reinvesting the profits and pissing the money away. (This was a shocking letdown, as I grew up in the Midwest and had high respect for those industrial titans.) I don't think a heck of a lot has changed.

Edited April 27, 2018 by T.D.

[Dave Garrett]

I saw an AutoWeek piece that essentially theorized that sedans were on the cusp of becoming obsolete, as buyer preferences were increasingly trending in favor of so-called "crossover" vehicles that ride higher than a sedan and have considerably more cargo space - basically a similar form factor to an SUV, but the size of a sedan as opposed to a truck. I'd expect Ford to focus (pun fully intended) on developing crossover vehicles, not just trucks and SUVs, and I believe this has been mentioned in a few of the more in-depth pieces out there, but it's being overlooked in favor of the "OMG FORD'S GETTING OUT OF THE CAR BUSINESS!!!!111!!!" clickbait.

[JSngry]

2 minutes ago, Dave Garrett said:

.."crossover" vehicles that ride higher than a sedan and have considerably more cargo space - basically a similar form factor to an SUV, but the size of a sedan as opposed to a truck...

You mean like the Murano? I guess people like those, ther's enough of them out there, but I like sitting lower to the ground, not higher. The higher up I sit, the less connected to the road I feel. Judging by the way a lot of those things are driven in traffic, perhaps that's the idea, to make your car your own isolated kingdom, above everybody else. Just what we need, more of that...

[Dave Garrett]

7 minutes ago, JSngry said:

You mean like the Murano? I guess people like those, ther's enough of them out there, but I like sitting lower to the ground, not higher. The higher up I sit, the less connected to the road I feel. Judging by the way a lot of those things are driven in traffic, perhaps that's the idea, to make your car your own isolated kingdom, above everybody else. Just what we need, more of that...

Yeah, like the Murano or the Honda CR-V. I can't stand the "elevated living room on wheels" feeling either - I prefer my ass to be a few inches above the pavement. Then again, I freely admit I'm completely out of step with the target market of new car buyers, as I also prefer light weight, nimble handling, manual transmissions, and a minimum of electronic crap, which is probably why my daily driver is a 19-year-old Honda. 

[Scott Dolan]

1 hour ago, Dave Garrett said:

I saw an AutoWeek piece that essentially theorized that sedans were on the cusp of becoming obsolete, as buyer preferences were increasingly trending in favor of so-called "crossover" vehicles that ride higher than a sedan and have considerably more cargo space - basically a similar form factor to an SUV, but the size of a sedan as opposed to a truck. I'd expect Ford to focus (pun fully intended) on developing crossover vehicles, not just trucks and SUVs, and I believe this has been mentioned in a few of the more in-depth pieces out there, but it's being overlooked in favor of the "OMG FORD'S GETTING OUT OF THE CAR BUSINESS!!!!111!!!" clickbait.

The piece I read about this mentioned that they are going to make a Focus crossover. So I'd say your assessment is spot on. Ford really can't afford (pun desperately meant, though it doesn't even work) to drop every car line but the Mustang and expect to stay in business simply selling SUV's and Trucks. 

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

You mean like the Murano? I guess people like those, ther's enough of them out there, but I like sitting lower to the ground, not higher. The higher up I sit, the less connected to the road I feel. Judging by the way a lot of those things are driven in traffic, perhaps that's the idea, to make your car your own isolated kingdom, above everybody else. Just what we need, more of that...

I actually LOVE my Nissan Juke, which is classified as a "sport crossover". Mostly because it's a turbocharged roller-skate that comes with 7" of ground clearance (.3" higher than the mid-size Nissan Pathfinder SUV!) which makes it very good in snow, AND this old man doesn't have to step down as far to enter and exit. It's essentially a faster Miata that handles moderate snow accumulations, and is FAR more comfortable to get in and out of. 

So, yeah. More of that, please! 

57 minutes ago, Dave Garrett said:

 Then again, I freely admit I'm completely out of step with the target market of new car buyers, as I also prefer light weight, nimble handling, manual transmissions, and a minimum of electronic crap, which is probably why my daily driver is a 19-year-old Honda. 

You'd probably love a Juke. The SV 6spd manual version that I have is a svelte 2900lbs with 188HP, hits 60 in 6.7 seconds and is fairly bare bones, outside of the ICON system it comes with. Though, the nice part about that is you can choose Normal, Sport, or Eco mode. Naturally I always use Sport, as it increases acceleration and tightens the steering so you don't get that feather lite over-boosted steering that has become the norm over the past couple of decades. As you can imagine, Eco mode makes baby Jesus cry...

Edited April 27, 2018 by Scott Dolan

[Dave James]

At least some of Ford's decision to withdraw from this market was driven by its increasing focus (no pun intended) on self-driving cars.  

[Dave Garrett]

1 hour ago, Scott Dolan said:

You'd probably love a Juke. The SV 6spd manual version that I have is a svelte 2900lbs with 188HP, hits 60 in 6.7 seconds and is fairly bare bones, outside of the ICON system it comes with. Though, the nice part about that is you can choose Normal, Sport, or Eco mode. Naturally I always use Sport, as it increases acceleration and tightens the steering so you don't get that feather lite over-boosted steering that has become the norm over the past couple of decades. As you can imagine, Eco mode makes baby Jesus cry...

"Svelte" is relative. My Civic Si is 2600 lbs, and my '90 CRX was 2100 lbs, but given current Federal safety standards it's practically impossible to mass-produce cars that light anymore. 

Overboosted power steering is a corollary to the increasing shift to drive-by-wire technologies, where direct mechanical linkages are replaced by electronic or electromechanical systems. On many new cars, for example, the throttle pedal is no longer directly connected to the throttle body, but merely acts as a sensor that transmits inputs to an electronic controller that in turn operates the throttle body. No doubt it increases fuel system efficiency, and every bit of efficiency will be needed to meet CAFE standards.

[GA Russell]

You car guys would know better than me:

1) Didn't the discontinuation of classes signal the beginning of the end of both AMC and Studebaker?

2) Are the crossovers higher off the ground more likely to roll over?

Edited April 27, 2018 by GA Russell

[JSngry]

I'm not a car guy (except that I'll only drive a car, not a truck or an SUV, although I did drive an 18 wheeler 100 or so yards in an empty field once), but I did to a road trip from Dallas to Corpus in the back seat of a Murano and have never been so uncomfortable in my life. We almost bought a CR-V off a friend until Brenda drove it and liked the high elevation less and less the longer she drove. I was glad I didn't have to exercise veto power, becuase I looked at the size of the tires on that thing, did a little mental pricing, and figured fuck that, that's too much for tires.

Smaller and wirier might be happening in this class, but hopefully we're bought our last cars, an Accord with 70K and an Avalon w/only 60K. Knock on wood, they'll last us for the duration.

[Scott Dolan]

31 minutes ago, Dave Garrett said:

"Svelte" is relative. My Civic Si is 2600 lbs, and my '90 CRX was 2100 lbs, but given current Federal safety standards it's practically impossible to mass-produce cars that light anymore. 

True enough. But my Juke is a 2011, and neither of those cars will get you to 60 as fast (once went toe to toe with a BMW Z4, neither of us won). The Si may dance as nimbly, though. Depending on the model year. 

I had a 2000 Celica GT. 2495lbs. 140HP. Fun car, but 60 came at a rather snooze-inducing 8.5 seconds. Weight doesn't always tell the story. Even in the twisties. 

32 minutes ago, GA Russell said:

 

2) Are the crossovers higher off the ground more likely to roll over?

Nah, not with the suspensions they are putting under them these days. 

[catesta]

4 hours ago, Dave Garrett said:

I saw an AutoWeek piece that essentially theorized that sedans were on the cusp of becoming obsolete, as buyer preferences were increasingly trending in favor of so-called "crossover" vehicles that ride higher than a sedan and have considerably more cargo space - basically a similar form factor to an SUV, but the size of a sedan as opposed to a truck. I'd expect Ford to focus (pun fully intended) on developing crossover vehicles, not just trucks and SUVs, and I believe this has been mentioned in a few of the more in-depth pieces out there, but it's being overlooked in favor of the "OMG FORD'S GETTING OUT OF THE CAR BUSINESS!!!!111!!!" clickbait.

Yep, they're all going to be doing it, not just Ford. A lot of the manufacturers are already zeroed in on the "crossover" and smaller SUV type vehicles. 

[Dave Garrett]

1 hour ago, Scott Dolan said:

True enough. But my Juke is a 2011, and neither of those cars will get you to 60 as fast (once went toe to toe with a BMW Z4, neither of us won). The Si may dance as nimbly, though. Depending on the model year. 

I had a 2000 Celica GT. 2495lbs. 140HP. Fun car, but 60 came at a rather snooze-inducing 8.5 seconds. Weight doesn't always tell the story. Even in the twisties. 

0-60 times are only one measurement. I prefer to look at the entire package, namely, is it fun to drive? There are plenty of cars that are faster than mine in a sprint to 60, but that doesn't make me wish I were driving something else. Judging from the eye-opening prices low-mileage, well-preserved '99-00 Sis have been fetching on Bring A Trailer lately, lots of other people feel the same way. 

But should one so desire, one of the main reasons Hondas of that vintage acquired such a legendary reputation among enthusiasts was how well they responded to tuning, particularly how easy it was to get big power out of the venerable 1.6/1.8 liter B-series motors. One example among many:

 

[Scott Dolan]

I’ve never been in a lightweight, short wheelbase car that wasn’t a blast to drive! Unless it was wildly underpowered. 

The Juke doesn’t lack power. Or extreme corner carving ability. No tuning needed. 

But, if you insist. Why toy with a sluggish C5 Vette when you can take on the fastest production car in the world? 

 

[Guy Berger]

How much of this decision i

On 4/26/2018 at 8:28 AM, Kevin Bresnahan said:

They seem to have a short memory. During the last spike in gas prices, when they shot up to almost $4.00 a gallon, a lot of people dumped their gas-guzzling SUVs and started buying more fuel efficient cars. I know someone who picked up a 2 year old mint Ford Explorer that cost almost $50K new for around $8K. If this happens again, their decision to focus on these poor gas mileage trucks & SUVs may backfire.

[/NO POLITICS INTENDED/] And BTW, this is a direct result of the new administration (no names please) rolling back the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards two weeks ago. If the CAFE MPG standards were still in place, there is no way that Ford could do this as their fleet's average gas mileage will not come anywhere near the old federal standard of 54.4 MPG by 2025. [/NO POLITICS INTENDED/]

From what I understand, the gas mileage differential between Ford's sedans and crossovers is very small

[Kevin Bresnahan]

45 minutes ago, Guy Berger said:

From what I understand, the gas mileage differential between Ford's sedans and crossovers is very small

That could be true, but the reason for this is that Ford has done little to enter the fuel efficient car world. They licensed Toyota's hybrid system and their resulting hybrid casr/SUVs weren't very good compared the other car makers' hybrids due to their poor implementation. When your sedans only get 26 MPG highway, it's pretty easy to make a crossover that gets the same.

The current administration's decision to relax the MPG standards let Ford off the hook for their inability to make very fuel efficient cars. Yes, they have improved their trucks' MPG, but even with their improvements, at best they're still half of most hybrid cars. At the rate they were going, there was no way they were going to be able to get their fleet average up to 54.4 MPG.

8 hours ago, Dave Garrett said:

I saw an AutoWeek piece that essentially theorized that sedans were on the cusp of becoming obsolete, as buyer preferences were increasingly trending in favor of so-called "crossover" vehicles that ride higher than a sedan and have considerably more cargo space - basically a similar form factor to an SUV, but the size of a sedan as opposed to a truck. I'd expect Ford to focus (pun fully intended) on developing crossover vehicles, not just trucks and SUVs, and I believe this has been mentioned in a few of the more in-depth pieces out there, but it's being overlooked in favor of the "OMG FORD'S GETTING OUT OF THE CAR BUSINESS!!!!111!!!" clickbait.

I wonder if these market trend analysts ever consider how these trends are influenced by the automakers' own advertisements? After all, the number one selling beer in the US is Bud Light. That must mean that this beer is the beer everyone wants, right? It has nothing to do with the bombardment of advertising aimed at making this so. No way!

[Scott Dolan]

But hasn’t Ford started to move away from their hybrid models and more into the Ecoboost line? I haven’t been in the market for a new car, so I’ve kind of lost track. But I mostly see Ecoboost vehicles on the road around here. 

[Kevin Bresnahan]

5 hours ago, Scott Dolan said:

But hasn’t Ford started to move away from their hybrid models and more into the Ecoboost line? I haven’t been in the market for a new car, so I’ve kind of lost track. But I mostly see Ecoboost vehicles on the road around here. 

Yes - my point exactly. Ford demonstrated that they had no intention of working toward 54.4 MPG. There was no way Ecoboost was going to get them there. Smaller vehicles, fuel cell vehicles, electric vehicles and hybrid vehicles are what they needed to do. Ford has improved their fleet average quite a bit in the past decade, but they wanted to be allowed to sell trucks, bigger trucks and huge trucks because they are easier to sell, have bigger margins and require no engineering skills to make. Screw the economy. Screw the environment. Screw our reliance on oil. They just want to make money.

FWIW, most car companies are no different. Toyota sells a lot of trucks so that even though their product line is filled with vehicles that get over 35 MPG, to as high as 54 MPG, their fleet average is only 25.1, a little over Ford's 24.83. So Toyota is happy too. Who knows - maybe Toyota will make this announcement next?

Look, I get that the CAFE MPG standards were going to be tough to meet. But it seems like many car companies, Ford in particular, had no intention of even trying. They've been crying "Woe is me" since the day these standards were announced.

At the same time, Volvo announced that their entire line will be electric or hybrid electric by 2020, including their SUVs. Go Volvo. They get it.

I'd like to add something here too...

During the last surge in gas prices, I lost count of the times I had people come up to me as I filled up my Toyota Prius and ask me how I liked my car and how many miles per gallon it got. Again, if gas prices spike, people will regret that they have to gas up their land barge.

Edited April 28, 2018 by Kevin Bresnahan

[Scott Dolan]

The last time we hit $4.20 a gallon here was when I dumped my HEMI Charger and the 14mpg my heavy right foot had restricted it to. 

I had no intention of getting a Prius because I wasn’t willing to give up THAT much power. Oddly enough, about a year later a co-worker needed me to drive her up to the dealership to pickup her husbands car. She had a Prius and had me drive it back from the dealer. I was actually blown away by two facts completely unknown to me:

1. Those suckers are FAR, FAR roomier inside than they look from the outside.

2. They may not have a HEMI or turbo under the hood, but they are FAR, FAR from being slow! 

I gained a whole new perspective and respect for the Prius that day. Although the little joystick thing is still really weird to me. Though my son just bought a used Chrysler 200, and you turn a dial to shift it into gear. Bizarre.