Idea for Mosaic

[mjzee]

Given the new way of selling that Mosaic seems to have adopted (taking orders before a pressing run), here's an idea for them to make some more money.  There were titles (I'm thinking specifically of the Vee Jays, but there might be others) that Mosaic, for various reasons, stopped selling before the end of their run date or before selling out.  Take the Wayne Shorter/Lee Morgan, for example: Mosaic could take orders for a specific run of that title, which would conceivably be allowed because it's within the 5,000 copies they were allowed to sell.  I'd preorder one.  It might take a phone call to the owners of the Vee Jay masters for approval, but it's hard to see why they'd say no.

[sidewinder]

Wasn’t there a time limit on the two Vee-Jay sets - presumably part of the licence agreement? I remember those two hitting ‘last chance’ pretty abruptly - so abruptly that there was an allmighty scramble to grab the few copies left.

Edited May 5, 2018 by sidewinder

[mjzee]

5 minutes ago, sidewinder said:

Wasn’t there a time limit on the two Vee-Jay sets - presumably part of the licence agreement? I remember those two hitting ‘last chance’ pretty abruptly - so abruptly that there was an allmighty scramble to grab the few copies left.

I recall it being some sort of unspecified problem with the pressing plant.  It was a bit mysterious.

[David Ayers]

The license expired. They had thought it expired the following year but had made an error - hence the sudden disappearance. 

[Kevin Bresnahan]

16 hours ago, mjzee said:

I recall it being some sort of unspecified problem with the pressing plant.  It was a bit mysterious.

There was a big problem at a CD pressing plant. I believe that the pressing plant closed and they threw out the CD stampers, making it expensive for Mosaic to re-press certain titles as they would have to re-cut CD masters at another plant. I know that the Stuff Smith set got caught up in this but I don't about any other titles.

[J.A.W.]

2 hours ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

There was a big problem at a CD pressing plant. I believe that the pressing plant closed and they threw out the CD stampers, making it expensive for Mosaic to re-press certain titles as they would have to re-cut CD masters at another plant. I know that the Stuff Smith set got caught up in this but I don't about any other titles.

Several Select sets were hit by this and became instantly unavailable. However, it is my understanding that the Stuff Smith set was taken off the market because its license was revoked by Verve, not because of the stampers problem, that happened much later; the Smith set disappeared long before the sets whose stampers were thrown out.

Edited May 6, 2018 by J.A.W.

[mjzee]

My point is simply that Mosaic has already put in the work to create these sets, and Ebay has shown that there's a desire in the market for these sets at reasonable prices.  Maybe some phone calls by Mosaic could let these licenses "open up" for another press run.

[gmonahan]

45 minutes ago, mjzee said:

My point is simply that Mosaic has already put in the work to create these sets, and Ebay has shown that there's a desire in the market for these sets at reasonable prices.  Maybe some phone calls by Mosaic could let these licenses "open up" for another press run.

It's possible, I guess, and some of us here would certainly like to see it (!), but one of Mosaic's earliest and most solemn pledges was that "once these sets are gone, they're gone for good" and "they'll never come back." Of course, like a good politician, they could always change their collective minds, though I'd be surprised if they did.

 

 

gregmo

[mjzee]

18 minutes ago, gmonahan said:

It's possible, I guess, and some of us here would certainly like to see it (!), but one of Mosaic's earliest and most solemn pledges was that "once these sets are gone, they're gone for good" and "they'll never come back." Of course, like a good politician, they could always change their collective minds, though I'd be surprised if they did.

 

 

gregmo

I'm not talking about titles that sold out their run (i.e., all 5,000 copies), but those whose sales were interrupted and unexpectedly halted.  Mosaic could make the case that some titles could be brought back because they still hadn't sold out their entire run.

[sidewinder]

I remember that Mosaic ‘Black Friday’ when quite a number of sets disappeared abruptly because of that stamper issue. Off the top of my head, it affected the Dinah Washington and Lou Donaldson big boxes, as well as a whole raft of Selects (Art Pepper, Pacific Jazz Trios, Johnny Mercer, Dexter + probably a few others). Pandemonium panic on the board that day with no stone left unturned to find sets for sale on the internet.

Edited May 6, 2018 by sidewinder

[AllenLowe]

just a thought; I don't really believe it's particularly expensive to create a new CD master for manufacture. I doubt if it's over $200-$300, but I could be wrong.

[gmonahan]

10 hours ago, mjzee said:

I'm not talking about titles that sold out their run (i.e., all 5,000 copies), but those whose sales were interrupted and unexpectedly halted.  Mosaic could make the case that some titles could be brought back because they still hadn't sold out their entire run.

It's funny that you should write that. I remember writing Mosaic way back in the early days--damn near pre-internet--to ask them how come some sets seemed to disappear so fast. They actually printed that letter in one of their flyers (when they used to DO flyers!), and that's when they explained that sets could disappear in TWO ways, one, if the run was exhausted, and two, if the license ran out for whatever reason. I don't think they differentiate about the cause, even if it's a disaster at the pressing plant (where the masters were lost, right?). Once a set is gone, for whatever reason, I very seriously doubt they'll bring it back. But yes, it would be nice if they did!

 

 

gregmo

[medjuck]

They do own the Benedetti recordings   and though I can understand them discontinuing the  box set, perhaps they could release a single or double cd of some of the more or less complete numbers.  And they could make downloads available of the whole thing since the sound isn't so great to begin with. 

Edited May 7, 2018 by medjuck

[mjzee]

15 hours ago, gmonahan said:

It's funny that you should write that. I remember writing Mosaic way back in the early days--damn near pre-internet--to ask them how come some sets seemed to disappear so fast. They actually printed that letter in one of their flyers (when they used to DO flyers!), and that's when they explained that sets could disappear in TWO ways, one, if the run was exhausted, and two, if the license ran out for whatever reason. I don't think they differentiate about the cause, even if it's a disaster at the pressing plant (where the masters were lost, right?). Once a set is gone, for whatever reason, I very seriously doubt they'll bring it back. But yes, it would be nice if they did!

 

 

gregmo

I understand the two ways you mention (sell out and license time out).  My idea involves a THIRD category: titles that, through an unforeseen technical glitch, never reached to the end of one of the two ways.  For example, let's say their inventory got destroyed by a flood.  I think they could successfully argue they should be allowed to do a repressing.  I think it's worth a shot to argue it to the rights holders, and could result in a quick financial shot-in-the-arm for Mosaic.

[king ubu]

Well, I would assume they did consider that option when the destruction of CD masters happened ... and they nixed it. And back then, sales probably still were quite a bit better, so I really don't see this as an option.

Also, wouldn't all those sets have "timed out" by now? My understanding is that only the EMI-held sets (such as the Mobley) would not time out after such and such number of years.

Third, if amassing pre-orders before re-pressing is the way to go nowadays (Bee Hive set), do you think they'd get enough of these to bring back old sets that many do have?

And finally, printing booklets and stuff is probably about as expensive or more expensive compared having CDs pressed ... there has been quite some change/fluctuation in paper/printing quality in the past 10 or so years it seems, some were high gloss, some were sturdy paper, some were rather filmsy, some had cover pages printed on paper of the same weight as the rest (thus they have no real "cover") ... this doesn't inlfuence the whole idea of bringing back sets, but still still would have to be part of considerations I assume.

[Brad]

That sounds a little like some of the Selects which, for reasons unknown to me, didn’t work out. 

[Brad]

Different but similar.  I can’t see Mosaic going for this. 

[sidewinder]

I think the chance of them doing re-pressings of those earlier sets are about the same as me setting foot on Mars. Not going to happen IMO..

Edited May 12, 2018 by sidewinder

[Brad]

Call Tesla! 

[J.A.W.]

5 minutes ago, sidewinder said:

I think the chance of them doing re-pressings of those earlier sets are about the same as me setting foot on Mars. Not going to happen IMO..

Not in a million years. People seem to forget that they pledged never to re-release sets once they're OOP.

Edited May 12, 2018 by J.A.W.

[David Ayers]

Mosaic don’t own the music. They can’t reissue anything.  

[J.A.W.]

54 minutes ago, David Ayers said:

Mosaic don’t own the music. They can’t reissue anything.  

Well, unless a license would be renewed, but, as I said above, they pledged not to reissue any of their OOP sets.

Edited May 12, 2018 by J.A.W.