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Swing Bands: Who should I listen to next?


Captain Howdy

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Why tell me, why preach to the converted?

But why at the same time rush those who prefer to FEEL their way into the music? Leave it to them to decide the pace that suits them and don't overcrowd them.

About "every town having its own band"; I was more than tempted - in an attempt to filll out the (territory) picture to suggest to the Captain to check out - in addition to obvious ones such as Boots & His Buddies - The Original Yellow Jackets (no, not that more recent gang ;)), Ike Ragon & His Orchestra or even Carl Cole & His Flint Hill Boys (Who? Yes, them! :D),. But what good at this stage? "Sensory overload" - like Brad said. ;)

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Alphseor Trent was a force of Swing Nature from Texas, the biggest planet on Earth.

You do the math!

But do keep in mind that "sensory overload" is a function of expectation, not of fact. If you know that there's more to be had than any one person can every experience in a full lifetime, never mind a few weeks or months or even years, then resistance dissipates, and overload becomes flow, a big rushing nonstop flow of possibilities, potential and realized, imagined and unimagined, just a ginormous flow of reality urine from the all-giving bladder of life, Go with that flow, because it's all there is.

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23 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Dude, you're talking about several decades worth of music made in a time where every city, town, hamlet, burg, and intersection had bands because that's all there was. Of course there's a lot of names. And you're not going to learn about them all at once, that's impossible, I mean, what, you're going to learn about decades worth of musics made by literally thousands of individuals in one quick easy step? That's not good physics, redo the equation, please.

That's the issue, so to speak, you can't do it in one easy step. It's "paralysis by analysis."

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I blame progress. When I was coming up, I'd read the books and magazines, and listen to the old folks, and I'd hear all these names, only some of whom were in the record stores, and, you know, there was NEW stuff happening all the time, so, you know, you get a mental notepad and it's full of all these names, and it's like, ok, I might want to get to that at some point, and some point could be years, decades wven, and that was ok because there was all sorts of other stuff happening in real time, having a "things to get to" list was ok, because it was a given that you couldn't get to it all at once, especially if you want to be a Modern Man Of What's Happening Now, right?

But now, geez, now it's like there's a "canon" and there's these notions that you gotta know it all and you gotta know it ASAP, and all these completionist anxiety takes root, people start collecting, not for enjoyment but out of guilt, and you know, a thread come up with like 15 or 20 names and it's like ARRRRGHHHHH INFORMATIONAL OVERLOAD, and just stop it y'all, just stop it. You got time, and when you finally do run out of time, it's not like the fate of your eternal soul is going to be affected by whether or not you got around to McKinney's Cotton Pickers or not. It's not an imposed test, it's an self-assignment to be completed at your own pace.

Yeah, there's more music in the air (past, present, and future) that you or me or anybody else in the world can get to, Ever,

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Nevertheless, Alphonsew Trent.

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6 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

@Captain Howdy: As you say you like the Erskine Hawkins Orchestra and have checked out Lucky Millinder, then by all means do check out the Buddy Johnson Orchestra too. His Decca recordings fit your time frame (his Mercury recordings not quite so, and they got their share of pop-ish vocals too).

I've heard Buddy Johnson too. I've been listening to a lot of early R&B so I came to Hawkins, Millinder, Andy Kirk, and Johnson from that direction. I was listening to them as proto-R&B however, so I guess I'll have to go back and listen again as jazz since aside from Hawkins they didn't really make much impression.

I suppose what I was vaguely asking in my OP had to do with the canon and the ranking order. In my mind at least at the top sits Duke, the Count, Benny, and Artie. Those are the giants of the era. Who's next? 

22 hours ago, Brad said:

I guess the question is how much do you want to immerse yourself?

"Immerse" doesn't seem like the right word. I'd like to take a top-down approach from most important to less important, if that's possible. I want to take them one or two at a time, not immerse myself in hundreds of bands at once. 

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1 hour ago, JSngry said:

I blame progress. When I was coming up, I'd read the books and magazines, and listen to the old folks, and I'd hear all these names, only some of whom were in the record stores, and, you know, there was NEW stuff happening all the time, so, you know, you get a mental notepad and it's full of all these names, and it's like, ok, I might want to get to that at some point, and some point could be years, decades wven, and that was ok because there was all sorts of other stuff happening in real time, having a "things to get to" list was ok, because it was a given that you couldn't get to it all at once, especially if you want to be a Modern Man Of What's Happening Now, right?

But now, geez, now it's like there's a "canon" and there's these notions that you gotta know it all and you gotta know it ASAP, and all these completionist anxiety takes root, people start collecting, not for enjoyment but out of guilt, and you know, a thread come up with like 15 or 20 names and it's like ARRRRGHHHHH INFORMATIONAL OVERLOAD, and just stop it y'all, just stop it. You got time, and when you finally do run out of time, it's not like the fate of your eternal soul is going to be affected by whether or not you got around to McKinney's Cotton Pickers or not. It's not an imposed test, it's an self-assignment to be completed at your own pace.

Yeah, there's more music in the air (past, present, and future) that you or me or anybody else in the world can get to, Ever,

This reminds me of the mid '80s when I was in college and my friend and I joked that every music review we read cited either The MC5 or James Brown as an influence on every new record released. These claims always seemed somewhat dubious to me since who had ever heard The MC5 or James Brown? I was vaguely aware of James Brown, had probably heard "Sex Machine" in a commercial or somewhere, but who was The MC5? Today James Brown's complete singles have been re-released, and you can instantly hear The MC5's complete oeuvre on Spotify for free. What a world, what a world.

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46 minutes ago, Captain Howdy said:

I suppose what I was vaguely asking in my OP had to do with the canon and the ranking order. In my mind at least at the top sits Duke, the Count, Benny, and Artie. Those are the giants of the era. Who's next? 

"Immerse" doesn't seem like the right word. I'd like to take a top-down approach from most important to less important, if that's possible. I want to take them one or two at a time, not immerse myself in hundreds of bands at once. 

All I can say is (and I can only speak for myself) - DON'T!!

Listen to whatever you feel like listening to, sample a bit from the bands you want to get an impression of and then explore in more depth what strikes a chord with you - what "gets you".

Top-down is all too educational and limiting. You will be missing out on a lot of colorful dots and speckles out there that brighten up the overall picture (and put flesh on the bones) beyond the "big names". By all means listen to all the Big Names of Swing and explore them in greater depth if you want, but if they don't hit it with you right away then go where you WILL be hit. And revisit them later but do NOT - NEVER! - feel obliged to revisit them with top priority just because there is a "canon". Keep your ears open for what there is but make up your own canon and go from there. This will lead you to where you naturally gravitate. Going where you think you are "supposed" to go isn't the way to do it. And "important" is all relative and subjective.

Example: I have about as many LPs by Duke Ellington or by Benny Goodman as by Count Basie (a lot!) but I listen ot Basie a lot more often and go to Ellington when I am in a special mood and to B.G. mainly for specific soloists. And I've been blown away by Louis Jordan & His Tympany FIve (and actively tried to get his whole output on LP way back ...) long before I expanded my Duke Ellington or Benny Goodman libraries in greater depth (whereas Basie was more of a must-have at that earlier time). And I've always tended to buy Andy Kirk or Lucky Millinder unheard-unseen-untried  rather than Louis Armstrong, for example (not to mention Glenn Miller who was VERY important then yet does not do all that much for me overall). And I have no regrets.

It's even more extreme in the field of Modern Jazz - and I do not in the least feel guilty about it.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Big Beat Steve
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52 minutes ago, Captain Howdy said:

I suppose what I was vaguely asking in my OP had to do with the canon and the ranking order. In my mind at least at the top sits Duke, the Count, Benny, and Artie. Those are the giants of the era. Who's next? 

Well, if you really want to do it like that... :g

T. Dorsey & Barnett for the white bands, Lunceford & Chick Webb for the black bands. Just know that in all cases, you will be confronted with vocals and other such things that you're indicated are not to your immediate appeal. But hey, pop music gonna pop music, right? But also, pop music gonna get it right sometimes and give you exactly what you want. The one I have the hardest time with is Dorsey, but objectively, a great band/organization, especially after Sy Oliver came on board (cf Lunceford). That's a name to look for in general, Sy Oliver, he turns up in a lot of places, including Reprise-era Siantra!

And do find room for Mouzon Trent. The guy only made something like 8 sides total, but they all swing like hell. Just get'em and put them away until the time comes, and if it never comes, hey, estate sale item!

Oh yeah, Woody Herman. The First Herd falls into your general time frame, and that was one crazy band, a bunch of rude motherfuckers who didn't give a damn, and I mean that in the very best way possible. Put them ahead of both Dorsey & Barnett.

imo, of course.

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30 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Oh yeah, Woody Herman. The First Herd falls into your general time frame, and that was one crazy band, a bunch of rude motherfuckers who didn't give a damn, and I mean that in the very best way possible. Put them ahead of both Dorsey & Barnett.

 

The "Band that Plays the Blues" pre-Herd too! ;)

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It’s entirely up to you how you want to approach it and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that’s plan because it’s your plan. On the other hand, I’ve found that listening to one musician may lead you down a different path than you had planned.  You might be on I 95 and all of a sudden you exit for a reason and next thing you know you’re on Route 301. 

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20 minutes ago, Brad said:

It’s entirely up to you how you want to approach it and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that’s plan because it’s your plan. On the other hand, I’ve found that listening to one musician may lead you down a different path than you had planned.  You might be on I 95 and all of a sudden you exit for a reason and next thing you know you’re on Route 301. 

That's true. I haven't made any rules for myself, only rough plans -- and I often fail to follow my own plans. 

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14 hours ago, JSngry said:

That does not rule out Alphonseo Trent, it merely delays the inevitable. Some things are bigger than personal taste, you can run, you can hide, you can absolutely refuse to engage, but still, there they are. There they are.

A discography of 8 songs? Do you think perhaps you're being a tad precious?

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