Scott Dolan Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 10 hours ago, Chuck Nessa said: Am I the only one to be irritated by all this crap? Nope. Though I'm actually more amused than irritated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffcrom Posted January 26, 2019 Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 I picked up the CD edition of Musical Prophet today, and I'm thoroughly enjoying it. There has been some speculation earlier in this thread about the relationship of the new takes here to those issued on the 2014 Japanese Muses CD. I got curious and compared the tracks today; here's the deal: "Alone Together" on Muses is the same as the alternate take on Musical Prophet. "Love Me" on Muses is the same as alternate take 2 on Musical Prophet. "Iron Man" on Muses is unique - no alternate take of this tune appears Musical Prophet. "Muses" and "Mandrake" on Muses are different takes from those on Musical Prophet - even though there are two takes of "Muses" on the new album, the Muses take is a third, different version. Muses is obviously sourced from a tape several generations removed from Dolphy's tapes that were used for Musical Prophet, but the additional unique material makes it well worth keeping, in my opinion. And by the way, the take of Bob James' "A Personal Statement" (aka "Jim Crow") on the Musical Prophet album is a different take from the one released on Other Aspects 30 years ago. Hope this info is helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam_44 Posted January 26, 2019 Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 21 minutes ago, jeffcrom said: I picked up the CD edition of Musical Prophet today, and I'm thoroughly enjoying it. There has been some speculation earlier in this thread about the relationship of the new takes here to those issued on the 2014 Japanese Muses CD. I got curious and compared the tracks today; here's the deal: "Alone Together" on Muses is the same as the alternate take on Musical Prophet. "Love Me" on Muses is the same as alternate take 2 on Musical Prophet. "Iron Man" on Muses is unique - no alternate take of this tune appears Musical Prophet. "Muses" and "Mandrake" on Muses are different takes from those on Musical Prophet - even though there are two takes of "Muses" on the new album, the Muses take is a third, different version. Muses is obviously sourced from a tape several generations removed from Dolphy's tapes that were used for Musical Prophet, but the additional unique material makes it well worth keeping, in my opinion. And by the way, the take of Bob James' "A Personal Statement" (aka "Jim Crow") on the Musical Prophet album is a different take from the one released on Other Aspects 30 years ago. Hope this info is helpful. This is info I've been hoping to find. I don't have Muses and have passively been looking for it. I'll keep looking but glad to have this set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 My copy is on the way. I wonder if this is addressed in the notes? The Grant Green in France also was missing a couple of tracks that were floating around elsewhere, I was assuming no good source was found for those tracks. Bertrand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 Have to admit that the packaging of this is so stunning that I broke down and ordered a copy. Should be here Friday. I'm a sucker. I wonder how many are left. A buddy of mine got one last week that was numbered in the upper 1900's, and it's a limited release of only 3000 from what I've read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 On 1/26/2019 at 10:19 PM, jeffcrom said: And by the way, the take of Bob James' "A Personal Statement" (aka "Jim Crow") on the Musical Prophet album is a different take from the one released on Other Aspects 30 years ago. I hadn't anticipated anything even remotely related to Other Aspects would be included on this newly expanded Iron man/Conversations set (aka Musical Prophet). It's not for everyone, and I don't listen to it all the time -- but Other Aspects is a really fascinating album. So does the version of "A Personal Statement" (which I'm only gathering from your post, jeffcrom, is an alternate version of "Jim Crow" from Musical Prophet)... ...does the version of "A Personal Statement" also include the opera singer? - who iirc, is a soprano? I can't remember if her name is known (the Wikipedia article for Other Aspects seems to think she's unnamed/unknown). If she is included in this new version of "Jim Crow" (aka "A Personal Statement) -- do the Musical Prophet liners identify her?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medjuck Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 34 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said: I hadn't anticipated anything even remotely related to Other Aspects would be included on this newly expanded Iron man/Conversations set (aka Musical Prophet). It's not for everyone, and I don't listen to it all the time -- but Other Aspects is a really fascinating album. So does the version of "A Personal Statement" (which I'm only gathering from your post, jeffcrom, is an alternate version of "Jim Crow" from Musical Prophet)... ...does the version of "A Personal Statement" also include the opera singer? - who iirc, is a soprano? I can't remember if her name is known (the Wikipedia article for Other Aspects seems to think she's unnamed/unknown). If she is included in this new version of "Jim Crow" (aka "A Personal Statement) -- do the Musical Prophet liners identify her?? And according to the notes the Bob James who wrote and play son Jim Crow is the smooth jazz Bob James! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, medjuck said: And according to the notes the Bob James who wrote and plays on Jim Crow. is the smooth jazz Bob James! Really?!?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffcrom Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Rooster_Ties said: I hadn't anticipated anything even remotely related to Other Aspects would be included on this newly expanded Iron man/Conversations set (aka Musical Prophet). It's not for everyone, and I don't listen to it all the time -- but Other Aspects is a really fascinating album. So does the version of "A Personal Statement" (which I'm only gathering from your post, jeffcrom, is an alternate version of "Jim Crow" from Musical Prophet)... ...does the version of "A Personal Statement" also include the opera singer? - who iirc, is a soprano? I can't remember if her name is known (the Wikipedia article for Other Aspects seems to think she's unnamed/unknown). If she is included in this new version of "Jim Crow" (aka "A Personal Statement) -- do the Musical Prophet liners identify her?? Yes - same piece, same personnel, different takes. The Musical Prohpet booklet devotes two pages to the history and circumstances of the piece. Bob James (who started as an avant-garde guy) wrote it for the ONCE Festival at the University of Michigan in 1964. James wrote it for his trio (Ron Brooks, bass; Bob Pozar, drums) with guests Dolphy and counter-tenor David Schwartz - that's a male singer, not a female. The day after it was performed at the festival, James took the group into the University of Michigan radio station and recorded two takes. When it was issued on Other Aspects, nobody knew anything about it except that it had been found in Dolphy's tape collection. It was assumed to be a Dolphy composition and given the title "Jim Crow," but James' actual title was "A Personal Statement." 2 hours ago, bertrand said: My copy is on the way. I wonder if this is addressed in the notes? The Grant Green in France also was missing a couple of tracks that were floating around elsewhere, I was assuming no good source was found for those tracks. Bertrand. The notes make a point of saying that there was more material from the sessions. "For the record, we're not releasing every take. There are still some that remain 'in the vaults.' We only wanted to include the best of the best." I get that, but everybody hears things differently, and I think the take of "Iron Man" on Muses is fascinating. I would have loved to hear that in the excellent sound of Musical Prophet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Rooster_Ties said: I hadn't anticipated anything even remotely related to Other Aspects would be included on this newly expanded Iron man/Conversations set (aka Musical Prophet). It's not for everyone, and I don't listen to it all the time -- but Other Aspects is a really fascinating album. Spot on appraisal, IMO. I remember when I finally got it and sat down and listened to it. I thought, why all the hate for this album? Yeah, it's different, but still incredibly fascinating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 hour ago, jeffcrom said: James wrote it for his trio (Ron Brooks, bass; Bob Pozar, drums) with guests Dolphy and counter-tenor David Schwartz - that's a male singer, not a female. Just dialing up the "Jim Crow" take from Other Aspects on Youtube while I'm at work, and damn if that isn't a counter-tenor. Heck, the liners to Other Aspects just might even mention that -- but for all these years, I always assumed it was a Mezzo or something or another (maybe a 1st alto, or whatever). But I never dreamed it was a male-alto (essentially). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 2 hours ago, jeffcrom said: Bob James (who started as an avant-garde guy)... Well, yes and no,,, First album (for Mercury) was "advanced inside" But then, he did the ESP record, of which I am not overly fond, and yeah, THAT one was out there. But then he cam bac inside and the rest is history. I'm thinking that after the ESP album was when he did the Sarah Vaughan gig. I did not know until fairly recently that he was a discovery of Quincy Jones. Connecting all those dots from Mercury to Sarah Vaughan to CTI, that all makes sense. The ESP record, though, is immensely WTF?-ish, and even if I don't like it, I still LOL at it being a Bob James record. It's nice to know that the guy went there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.D. Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 24 minutes ago, JSngry said: Well, yes and no [Bob James started out as avant-garde],,, First album (for Mercury) was "advanced inside" But then, he did the ESP record, of which I am not overly fond, and yeah, THAT one was out there... I read Bob James's bio on All Music Guide with great interest (quoted below), and I think he was pretty avant-garde going back to his college days: During the first semester of his sophomore year [at U of Michigan], he transferred to Berklee College of Music, in Boston, Massachusetts. James dug deep into free jazz with area musicians and formed his own trio... After graduating from Berklee, James moved to New York, where he met Bernard Stollman from ESP-Disk. He brought the impresario a tape he'd produced with his own trio and some classmates from his days in Ann Arbor, namely composers/sound artists Robert Ashley and Gordon Mumma from the Once Group. Ashley and Mumma definitely qualify as avant-garde. Ashley is a personal favorite, composer of the epic (IMO) Perfect Lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 Well, there you go, I didn't know that pre-history, especially that the ESP record predated Mercury. Learn new things every day, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.D. Posted January 31, 2019 Report Share Posted January 31, 2019 I'd rather not quote any more of the All Music Guide bio, but the Mercury (rel. 1963, apparently while James was still in college?) does predate the ESP (rel. 1965). Quincy Jones signed James to Mercury after his band won a collegiate competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 31, 2019 Report Share Posted January 31, 2019 That Bob James is just one hot mess, ain't he! Who'd have thunk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medjuck Posted January 31, 2019 Report Share Posted January 31, 2019 The other piece of new (to me at least) information from the Robin D.G. Kelley notes is that Prince Lasha, Charles Moffett, Dewey Redman and clarinetist John Carter were all in a Fort Worth high school band with Ornette Coleman. And I hadn't realized before I read it in the notes that Dolphy led only for studio session in his life and three of them were in 1960. Also seems that nobody has a bad word to say about him as a person (except the trumpeter Eddie Armour). Sort of like Coltrane: in a documentary about Trane there's a wonderful moment where Elvin Jones says with complete sincerity: "He was a saint." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted January 31, 2019 Report Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 hour ago, medjuck said: The other piece of new (to me at least) information from the Robin D.G. Kelley notes is that Prince Lasha, Charles Moffett, Dewey Redman and clarinetist John Carter were all in a Fort Worth high school band with Ornette Coleman. And I hadn't realized before I read it in the notes that Dolphy led only for studio session in his life and three of them were in 1960. I. M. Terrell! Other alums include King Curtis, Cornell Dupree and Julius Hemphill. http://blog.pshares.org/index.php/ornette-coleman-and-the-color-of-fort-worth/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.D. Posted January 31, 2019 Report Share Posted January 31, 2019 13 hours ago, JSngry said: That Bob James is just one hot mess, ain't he! Who'd have thunk? Yeah, I was amazed. Going to have to start thinking of Bob James the same way I do of Chick Corea: extremely talented guy, but the way he applies that talent is not always to my taste... [Disclosure: I own a number of Corea recordings, but none by James.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted January 31, 2019 Report Share Posted January 31, 2019 Back before I became interested in Jazz and I mean way back, I had a few of his albums. I think this is one I liked but it’s probably been 30+ years since I listened to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.D. Posted January 31, 2019 Report Share Posted January 31, 2019 (edited) Back in the early '90s, I occasionally listened to a NYC smooth jazz radio station "CD 101.9". (At that time I didn't know much about jazz, only had a few Miles recordings and a few by his ex-sidemen, e.g. Jarrett, Corea.) Bob James got a lot of play there, seemed to be one of the most talented performers in that genre. Edited January 31, 2019 by T.D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted January 31, 2019 Report Share Posted January 31, 2019 Not sure if this promo-video has been posted here yet, fwiw... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.D. Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 Thanks, nice video. Will have to buy this release (has been on the wish list)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam_44 Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 On 1/30/2019 at 10:35 AM, Scott Dolan said: Have to admit that the packaging of this is so stunning that I broke down and ordered a copy. Should be here Friday. I'm a sucker. I wonder how many are left. A buddy of mine got one last week that was numbered in the upper 1900's, and it's a limited release of only 3000 from what I've read. The CD is limited? Where is the #? Or are you talking Vinyl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 The LP is sold out according to the Resonance website but there is no mention there of the CD bring limited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_forumlogo.png.a607ef20a6e0c299ab2aa6443aa1f32e.png)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.