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Larry Kart

Charlie Rouse redux

163 posts in this topic

I'm one of those who has, with a few exceptions, never cared much for Rouse's work with Monk. To me, he seemed semi-trapped within Monk's pieces and by Monk's comping, more or less sounding out what was given. Aware of some Rouse in a non-Monk setting that was quite  good --  e.g. his own c. 1960 album for Epic "Yeah" -- I was pleased to come across "Sphere on Tour" (Red) from 1985 and find that Rouse sounded quite relaxed and inventive.

https://www.amazon.com/Sphere-Charlie-Rouse-Buster-Williams/dp/B002PORE9E/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1530750336&sr=1-3&keywords=sphere+on+tour

From "Yeah":
 

 

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Rouse's 1974 Strata East date, Two Is One, has long been a serious deep favorite of mine, going back maybe 20 years (for me), though I can't remember exactly when I first heard it.

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6 hours ago, Larry Kart said:

.... I was pleased to come across "Sphere on Tour" (Red) from 1985 and find that Rouse sounded quite relaxed and inventive.

https://www.amazon.com/Sphere-Charlie-Rouse-Buster-Williams/dp/B002PORE9E/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1530750336&sr=1-3&keywords=sphere+on+tour

"Sphere On Tour" is by far the loosest recording by the whole group and comes highly recommended ....

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I also find Rouse a much more interesting tenor man on recordings that do not include Monk.

His recordings as leader on Jazzland, Storyville and Uptown are all very good. There are others as a sideman also well worth hearing.

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One of my favorites:

Leapin%27_and_Lopin%27.jpeg

Also check out his band Le Jazz Modes with Julius Watkins.  Also Bossa Nova Bacchanal (Blue Note), with the extra track from 1/22/65.

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14 hours ago, Rooster_Ties said:

Rouse's 1974 Strata East date, Two Is One, has long been a serious deep favorite of mine, going back maybe 20 years (for me), though I can't remember exactly when I first heard it.

I might add that Two Is One (1974) really pushes a LOT of buttons for me, in ways I would have never guessed from any sort date that Charlie Rouse was on (let alone leader of).

I've long thought at times, it almost sounds like something Steve Coleman might have been listening to, in terms of early M-BASE influences.  Not in every detail, but in the overall rhythmic/mathematical complexity of it all (or at least the impression I'm left with).

And quite seriously, given what sorts of dates Rouse was on and led before, in 1974 who the hell could have ever foreseen Two Is One being a Charlie Rouse(!) date?!!  Include it on any blindfold test circa 1975-80, and I can't imagine anyone guessing Rouse.

I'd love to know more about Two Is One, actually.  It's such an out-of-left-field sort of date.  The line-up is below (from Wikipedia).  Practically all these guys were a generation younger (I'd have to guess).  The only other name I know is Stanley Clarke (of course) -- is there anyone else on this album that I should be more aware of?

  1. Bitchin'" (George Davis) - 7:19
  2. "Hopscotch" (Joe Chambers) - 7:18
  3. "In a Funky Way" (Davis) - 4:52
  4. "Two Is One" (Charles Rouse) - 11:16
  5. "In His Presence Searching" (David Lee) - 9:29

Lineup:

Edited by Rooster_Ties

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41b3f9e192.jpg

Outstanding .... feat. ingenious arrangements by Don Sickler ....

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I think Charlie Rouse's playing with Monk was terrific. It was a perfect match. I doubt that few other sax players could have meshed so perfectly with Monk.

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57 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:

I might add that Two Is One (1974) really pushes a LOT of buttons for me, in ways I would have never guessed from any sort date that Charlie Rouse was on (let alone leader of).

I've long thought at times, it almost sounds like something Steve Coleman might have been listening to, in terms of early M-BASE influences.  Not in every detail, but in the overall rhythmic/mathematical complexity of it all (or at least the impression I'm left with).

And quite seriously, given what sorts of dates Rouse was on and led before, in 1974 who the hell could have ever foreseen Two Is One being a Charlie Rouse(!) date?!!  Include it on any blindfold test circa 1975-80, and I can't imagine anyone guessing Rouse.

I'd love to know more about Two Is One, actually.  It's such an out-of-left-field sort of date.  The line-up is below (from Wikipedia).  Practically all these guys were a generation younger (I'd have to guess).  The only other name I know is Stanley Clarke (of course) -- is there anyone else on this album that I should be more aware of?

  1. Bitchin'" (George Davis) - 7:19
  2. "Hopscotch" (Joe Chambers) - 7:18
  3. "In a Funky Way" (Davis) - 4:52
  4. "Two Is One" (Charles Rouse) - 11:16
  5. "In His Presence Searching" (David Lee) - 9:29

Lineup:

David Lee played with Sonny Rollins around this time.  Azzedin Weston is Randy's son.

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52 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:

I might add that Two Is One (1974) really pushes a LOT of buttons for me, in ways I would have never guessed from any sort date that Charlie Rouse was on (let alone leader of).

I've long thought at times, it almost sounds like something Steve Coleman might have been listening to, in terms of early M-BASE influences.  Not in every detail, but in the overall rhythmic/mathematical complexity of it all (or at least the impression I'm left with).

And quite seriously, given what sorts of dates Rouse was on and led before, in 1974 who the hell could have ever foreseen Two Is One being a Charlie Rouse(!) date?!!  Include it on any blindfold test circa 1975-80, and I can't imagine anyone guessing Rouse.

I'd love to know more about Two Is One, actually.  It's such an out-of-left-field sort of date.  The line-up is below (from Wikipedia).  Practically all these guys were a generation younger (I'd have to guess).  The only other name I know is Stanley Clarke (of course) -- is there anyone else on this album that I should be more aware of?

  1. Bitchin'" (George Davis) - 7:19
  2. "Hopscotch" (Joe Chambers) - 7:18
  3. "In a Funky Way" (Davis) - 4:52
  4. "Two Is One" (Charles Rouse) - 11:16
  5. "In His Presence Searching" (David Lee) - 9:29

Lineup:

You do know Airto, right?  Also, Calo Scott's presence is a always a good indicator. Metzke's played with Paul Motian and on some of Barbieri's Impulse dates which isn't too shabby. david Lee's on Zawinul's self-titled solo album, I think 

I need to get a copy of "Two Is One" as I only know it from YouTube. Looks like a cheap vinyl reissue is about at the moment which might be the way forward given the cost of other editions.

I'm going to listen to those YouTubes right now with Steve Coleman in mind. I like that idea

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17 minutes ago, Stonewall15 said:

I think Charlie Rouse's playing with Monk was terrific. It was a perfect match. I doubt that few other sax players could have meshed so perfectly with Monk.

I'll go along with this minority report.

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4 minutes ago, jlhoots said:

I'll go along with this minority report.

Well then, count me in as well. :) 

When he played with Monk he approached his solos in exactly the same way Monk did, by playing with and reworking the main theme. 

I found this to be brilliant, and a definitive breath of fresh air over the Coltrane/Rollins/Griffin styles that came before. They were great, mind you, but none encapsulated the awkward brilliance of Monk’s tunes like Rouse did. 

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8 minutes ago, jlhoots said:

I'll go along with this minority report.

Less of a minority all the time.

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9 hours ago, chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez said:

this ones real good- distributed by casabalanca.....so we can thank KISS for this one i guess

R-1244632-1436399665-3432.jpeg.jpg

 

 

 

One of the few Rouse dates that I didn't like all that much. I suppose if I was more into that era's Jazz, I would dig it more.

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"I doubt that few other sax players could have meshed so perfectly with Monk."

That's my complaint about Rouse with Monk, in effect -- the mesh was so perfect that Rouse was pretty much swallowed-up, made extraneous. He had more to say IMO when he was more in charge.

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I like Charlie Rouse's playing with Monk. I think he captured Monk's sound more than other saxophonists did.

And I'll thrown this Rouse date into the mix. Very fine playing by Red Rodney too.

71UJM0g2qmL._SL1067_.jpg

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11 minutes ago, Larry Kart said:

"I doubt that few other sax players could have meshed so perfectly with Monk."

That's my complaint about Rouse with Monk, in effect -- the mesh was so perfect that Rouse was pretty much swallowed-up, made extraneous. He had more to say IMO when he was more in charge.

Yeah, but how can you discount how he was so in tune with Monk that he completely rebuilt his style to play in that vein.

IMO, that is wildly impressive. 

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I have to chime in with my love for Bossa Nova Bacchanal; Rouse shines in what is (for me, at least) an unobvious context.  It is also fun hearing Kenny Burrell alongside Rouse.  Burrell and the relatively obscure Chauncey Westbrook, whose solos make me lament his slim discography, work well together.  I'm glad that Blue Note got around to reissuing it as a Conn. 

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I think I like every Rouse leader and co-leader date I've heard. . . .

But. . . I love Rouse with Monk. For me a great combination. Especially with Frankie Dunlop in the drum chair.

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b319597870ff2643b61228850fdefb8f9b714f4e

Another sideman goodie ....

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Don´t overlook this album ...

33162313ir.jpg

CHARLIE ROUSE: EPISTROPHY. LANDMARK LCD-1521-2 [1989]

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3 hours ago, Scott Dolan said:

Yeah, but how can you discount how he was so in tune with Monk that he completely rebuilt his style to play in that vein.

IMO, that is wildly impressive. 

Impressive in that it's not easy to do but also, I would say, submissive, and/or suppressive  of Rouse's own considerable virtues. Again, I can think of few Monk-Rouse recordings (though there are some, e.g. "Live at the It Club") ) where Rouse's contribution to the proceedings was much more than a matter of shadowing Monk's line and his comping.

P.S. Also, though this runs counter to what seems to be the common view, I pretty much can't stand Frankie Dunlop, with all his cute coy "tinkle-bang" shadowing of Monk. At least Rouse is never cute or coy. I much prefer all the other all the drummers I can think who played with Monk -- off the top of my head,  Max, Blakey, Klook,  Philly Joe, Shadow Wilson, Ben Riley, Art Taylor. Who am I forgetting?

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I believe Larry made a very strong point when he suggested that Monk, in effect, took over Rouse which decreased his originality and creativity.

The Monk recordings with Rouse are enjoyable to me, but are (in my view) well below albums like Brilliant Corners and Monk's Music where soloists such as Sonny Rollins, Coltrane and Ernie Henry add excitement and great richness that one rarely finds from Rouse with Monk.

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