JSngry Posted July 26, 2018 Report Share Posted July 26, 2018 Gotta say, though, that Mark Myers seems a little condescending towards Ernie Caceres, which I don't believe is justified. Ernie Caceres could play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted August 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2018 I'd like to thank those of you who went and voted for Hank in this year's poll. The poll is now closed and we wait to see if he made it. I hope he at least got more than the 618 he got last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted August 16, 2018 Report Share Posted August 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Kevin Bresnahan said: I'd like to thank those of you who went and voted for Hank in this year's poll. The poll is now closed and we wait to see if he made it. I hope he at least got more than the 618 he got last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted October 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 The results are in - Hank is not. Hey, he moved up from 9th place to 6th place. Still got the guitar voting block at play here. BTW, I love me some Ray Charles, but he is not primarily a Jazz musician and certainly not one I pull off the shelf when I want to hear some Jazz. I guess it's time to give up on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKE BBB Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 16 minutes ago, Kevin Bresnahan said: The results are in - Hank is not. Hey, he moved up from 9th place to 6th place. Still got the guitar voting block at play here. BTW, I love me some Ray Charles, but he is not primarily a Jazz musician and certainly not one I pull off the shelf when I want to hear some Jazz. I guess it's time to give up on this. Allan Holdsworth --- 1,482 votes Hank --- 798 votes Gimme a break!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 31 minutes ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:  I guess it's time to give up on this. Buddy Guy placed higher than Hank, and Snarky Puppy won Best Jazz Group. There's no guessing to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted October 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) And BTW - anyone who thinks what I did was wrong because it was some kind of ballot stuffing, look at the numbers for the guitarists. Buddy Guy went from something less than 378 to 798 (well over a 50% increase). Alan Holdsworth went from 947 last year to 1,482 this year (36% increase). Mobley went from 618 last year to 798 this year (22.5% increase, thanks somewhat to many of us here), one of the highest jumps by a non-guitarist. You want ballot stuffing, look no further than those guitar fans. Edited October 23, 2018 by Kevin Bresnahan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 I'm gonna need somebody to explain the whole Snarky Puppy thing to me... No, I take that back. I just don't care. Really just don't care. I've heard all the neo-soul and nu-jazz that they cop all of it from, so I get what it is that people who haven't think they're doing. Explanation would be a waste of time all concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 Just wondering, what is the circulation of guitar mags? Do they overwhelm DB and were there massive campaigns for some of these people? I'm grasping to explain the Buddy Guy showing. I don't have a problem with Ray Charles going in but Buddy is just so divorced from jazz I can't fathom it. yeah, Jazz, Blues and Beyond but really? OK I vote that we turn our attention to Grant Green. Get those guitar heads to get their heads on straight and vote for the deserving ... between them and us I bet we can get him up to the top 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 I actually like Snarky Puppy quite a bit, but I don't consider them Jazz in any way, shape, or form. Not sure what one would consider them. The catch-all Adult Contemporary, maybe?  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted October 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 Something I don't get is the apparent surge in the overall number of votes this year. They did this on-line last year as well and the winner, Wynton Marsalis, only got 1,062 votes with 2nd, 3rd, 4th & 5th garnering ~800 votes each. This year, there are 2 artists with over 1,400 votes, and 4 more with ~800 votes. It almost seems fishy. Unless my campaign got all of you to vote for Ray Charles. I know - it's the Russians! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uli Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 everybody jamming w my man Sharkey is ok in my book  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Dan Gould said: Just wondering, what is the circulation of guitar mags? per Wikipedia, Guitar Player has a circulation of 131,146. There's probably many more publications than just that one, but that's the one that immediately comes to mind. Down Beat's is not listed, but in 2009 it was claimed to be 70,000. That's the only one that has the Down Beat Hall Of Fame. http://www.artsjournal.com/jazzbeyondjazz/2009/07/on_magazines_circulation_figur.html # of Guitar Centers in the US = 269 # of Saxophone Centers in the US = 0 # of guitars you can buy through Guitar Center = 20,042 https://www.guitarcenter.com/Guitars.gc?typeAheadRedirect=true # of saxophones you can buy through Guitar Center = 152 https://www.guitarcenter.com/Saxophones.gc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted October 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 Wait a minute... I just realized that Ray Charles didn't even make the Hall Of Fame list at all last year! WTF?? So which group stuffed the ballot for Ray Charles this year?? It's not a "He died this year" thing either. He died in 2004. This is messed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 I think it's messed up that he hadn't made it until now. He may not be who I go to when I want to listen to "jazz", but otoh, every Ray Charles record I like (which is not all of them, but very many) is dripping with jazzflavor. And you gotta wonder if we'd even have Horace Silver and/or the Jazz Messengers as they became known without Ray Charles very heavily in the mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted October 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 I call BS on this year's vote. Ray Charles wasn't even listed in the polls from 2014, 2015, 2016 or 2017 and then, all of a sudden, he gets almost double the number of votes that the winner got last year? Something is definitely fishy here. There is no way that all of these voters suddenly woke up and realized that Ray Charles deserved a vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 Petition for a recount! Take it all the way to the Supreme Court! Look for the hanging Fatheads! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 DB stuffed the ballot box to make up for the failure to elect him sooner. I bet Hank could have won the Electoral College. Don't sleep on flyover country, y'all.     Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 26 minutes ago, JSngry said: I think it's messed up that he hadn't made it until now. He may not be who I go to when I want to listen to "jazz", but otoh, every Ray Charles record I like (which is not all of them, but very many) is dripping with jazzflavor. And you gotta wonder if we'd even have Horace Silver and/or the Jazz Messengers as they became known without Ray Charles very heavily in the mix. Don't forget about Fathead, who honed his skills with Brother Ray for a decade. I'm with you on not being opposed to him getting the win. Ray was just a monster (in more than one sense of the word) that crisscrossed so many genres, he should be in at least three genre Halls O' Fame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 Fathead, James Clay, Don Wilkerson, Rudolph Johnson, Ray always had boss tenor players, always! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlhoots Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 4 hours ago, JSngry said: I'm gonna need somebody to explain the whole Snarky Puppy thing to me... No, I take that back. I just don't care. Really just don't care. I've heard all the neo-soul and nu-jazz that they cop all of it from, so I get what it is that people who haven't think they're doing. Explanation would be a waste of time all concerned. I don't care either!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted October 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 2014 2015 2016 2017 So Ray got less than 325 votes in 2014, less than 277 votes in 2015, less than 349 votes in 2016 & less than 378 in 2017. And no one at DownBeat thinks it's odd that Ray got 1,764 votes this year? Tell you what, in preparation for next year's vote, can someone point me to an app or a service to stuff this ballot next year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 I mean, they're all great players, but to be honest, so much of it sounds like reversed-engineered DJ music, like, hey, this is different becuase we got real people standing here playing parts, and I'm like, no it's not really different, it's just imitative, But what are they doing, really? Whatever solos they are could have been - and were - played on many many fusion records back when that was a thing. Maybe people are craving a fusion revival. But looking at the components, I just hear a "one from each column" type of esthetic, which, ok, that's a skill of its own, but I don't hear it ever transcending that, never really crossing the road as much as hitching a ride on it. I get that some people don't think that DJs are musicians, but here we go, if musicians are getting their shit from DJs, then what does that say about the musicality of the DJs? Quite a lot, I think, and I don't mean the hype club guys, I mean the guys who are artists about it. I'm glad that people are getting paid, seriously, just don't look to me for my money, that's all. Anyway, I suppose it's jazz in the way that everything else is jazz these days. I'm getting older and crankier literally every minute, so if this is what people want, hey, there it is! Me, I'll just sit here with my thumb up my ass and wait for the next Ursula Rucker joint to drop, whenever that might be, if ever. I do hope she's doing well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 Their music just puts a genuinely happy smile on my face. I can’t listen to a piece like Thing Of Gold and keep from smiling. Nothing wrong with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted October 24, 2018 Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 5 hours ago, JSngry said: Fathead, James Clay, Don Wilkerson, Rudolph Johnson, Ray always had boss tenor players, always! And Tina Brooks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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