Kevin Bresnahan Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 https://variety.com/2018/music/news/vinyl-mastering-ron-mcmaster-capitol-studios-retirement-1202850575/amp/ He worked to almost 70 years old. That's older than I want to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed S Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) Wow - time flies. I still have most of the original McMastered Blue Note CDs I picked up in the 90s. Hope that doesn't start a controversy - but I'm pretty easy to please Congrats to Ron for a long and distinguished career Edit: Just voted for Hank Mobley for the Downbeat HOF. Made me think of all the Ron McMaster Mobley CDs I have. Time to give one or two a spin. Edited July 17, 2018 by Ed Swinnich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonnymax Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 4 hours ago, Ed Swinnich said: ... I still have most of the original McMastered Blue Note CDs I picked up in the 90s. Hope that doesn't start a controversy - but I'm pretty easy to please... I don't think your favorable opinion of McMaster's work is as controversial as it might have been 10-15 years ago. I think his even-handed approach to remastering many of those Blue Note classics yielded more pleasing, "natural" results as compared to some of the more compressed, exaggerated high-end ("hot") reissues that followed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwbol Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) Looking at other early jazz CD reissues, better results than McMaster achieved in the late 80s early 90s were certainly attainable. I agree they sound more natural than a lot that followed, but that is more due to the cynicism with which the later reissue campaign was handled. Letting an ageing, somewhat deaf Van Gelder butcher all those 24bit reissues is unforgivable. When it comes to McMaster, I especially dislike the later 20bit and 24bit BN Connoisseurs, Mosaics, etc. Edited July 17, 2018 by erwbol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFrank Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 I found out recently that he's a friend of an old friend of mine. I'm hoping I get to meet him someday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 6 hours ago, Ed Swinnich said: Congrats to Ron for a long and distinguished career. I've never even considered upgrading my McMaster remastered cds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 Still got all of mine too - and never felt any reason to change them. Wishing him a good retirement ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clunky Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 I think he did a great job on the whole. The McMaster CDs from the late 80s to 90s have stood the test of time pretty well. Hope he enjoys his retirement and can reflect on a job well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonnymax Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, erwbol said: Looking at other early jazz CD reissues, better results than McMaster achieved in the late 80s early 90s were certainly attainable. I agree they sound more natural than a lot that followed, but that is more due to the cynicism with which the later reissue campaign was handled. Letting an ageing, somewhat deaf Van Gelder butcher all those 24bit reissues is unforgivable. When it comes to McMaster, I especially dislike the later 20bit and 24bit BN Connoisseurs, Mosaics, etc. I doubt anyone would disagree with the first sentence in your post. Then again, a lot of remastered reissues sounded much worse during the early days of the compact disc. The rest of your statement is, in my opinion, a load of crap. I've read the argument that Rudy's remasters sound the way they do because his hearing was impaired before, and I don't buy it. I believe Rudy gave reissue producers exactly what they wanted, more or less. The perceived limits of new media and changing listeners' tastes led many to believe that music with exaggerated highs and lows, compression and louder volume sounded better. We asked for it, and RVG complied. As far as McMaster's work on the Connoisseurs and Mosaics go, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. I have a much more favorable opinion of these reissue programs, as I'll wager do many of our brethren. Edited July 17, 2018 by sonnymax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 No gripes about the Mosaic McMasters from me either ! My favourite remasterings were the ones by Malcolm Addey though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwbol Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 7 minutes ago, sidewinder said: My favourite remasterings were the ones by Malcolm Addey though. Exactly. The Andrew Hill Mosaic Complete Blue Note Sessions (1963-66) clearly shows that Addey was able to do better with 16 bit technology than McMaster. Compare Black Fire and Point of Departure. Addey also did better with 24bit in general(Connoisseurs and Select 16). Also, Addey's Smoke Stack from the Mosaic is much better than the Larry Walsh 20bit Connoisseur, the sessions' two basses particularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwbol Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) 46 minutes ago, sonnymax said: I doubt anyone would disagree with the first sentence in your post. Then again, a lot of remastered reissues sounded much worse during the early days of the compact disc. The rest of your statement is, in my opinion, a load of crap. I've read the argument that Rudy's remasters sound the way they do because his hearing was impaired before, and I don't buy it. I believe Rudy gave reissue producers exactly what they wanted, more or less. The perceived limits of new media and changing listeners' tastes led many to believe that music with exaggerated highs and lows, compression and louder volume sounded better. We asked for it, and RVG complied. As far as McMaster's work on the Connoisseurs and Mosaics go, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. I have a much more favorable opinion of these reissue programs, as I'll wager do many of our brethren. Rudy Van Gelder began mastering louder that was usual at the time at least since 1992. See Joe Henderson's Lush Life: The Music of Billy Strayhorn and compare with other Joe Henderson Verve CDs from that era not recorded by Van Gelder (So Near, So Far and Big Band). This style is carried over into Van Gelder recordings of the late 90s. See for example Van Gelder's Osby, Shim, Moran, Harris New Directions and compare with Shims second Blue Note Turbulent Flow released around the same time. In the late eighties this was not yet the case, see Rudy's recording of Andrew Hill's Eternal Spirit for Blue Note in 1989. A very fine sounding digital recording. The producers indeed got exactly what they wanted, hence my accusation of cynicism. They knew from decades of experience they were selling crap to a bunch of ignoramuses (like myself when I started collecting in 1998) and didn't care, except most likely for sales figures. And what a brand name Van Gelder was, and as a result of roughly 10 years of shitty remasters no longer completely is. I don't think 'we asked for it' at all. Certainly not people who were long time listeners in the late nineties, and also not ignoramuses like myself who were trusting record companies to bring out the best possible product they could at the time. After all, dedicated people were involved on behalf of the companies, right? As for the reports on Van Gelder's hearing, the extreme white hot treble boost of last decade's remasters fits those rumours nicely, I believe. Edited July 17, 2018 by erwbol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted July 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 1 hour ago, erwbol said: I don't think 'we asked for it' at all. Certainly not people who were long time listeners in the late nineties, and also not ignoramuses like myself who were trusting record companies to bring out the best possible product they could at the time. After all, dedicated people were involved on behalf of the companies, right? Buyers certainly did "ask for it". The Rudy Van Gelder series was born in Japan. The Japanese paid Rudy to remaster a small number of titles as a limited release. Demand was so high there and here, that they removed the "limited release" from it and sold a bunch. I recall a lot of people who had previously complained about Ron McMaster's CDs buying all of these up - pre-ordering them, in fact. It got to the point where the US arm of Blue Note couldn't ignore the demand. As a result, the RVG series was born. In fact, the first batch of US issues were taken from the Japanese masters, right down to the near mono sound. Michael Cuscuna had to have RVG re-master them for US release to widen the soundstage. So to put it this way - US buyers caused this series to cross over the Pacific. We "asked for it" by buying so many of those mini-LPs from Japan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwbol Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 So a segment of the Japanese and American buying public asked for it, and this confirms all this started out as a marketing stunt. Quality control went out the window. It is no surprise to me that in America where capitalism is so unchecked and which has slowly turned into a Mickey Mouse democracy this is simply accepted. Personally, I think it is immoral to master these works of art to the standard someone with a $200 stereo system might enjoy best. Don't like it? Go find another hobby. Well, in the case of movies and television, sure, I'll stop watching. But I can't stop caring about jazz, so I am pissed off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 40 minutes ago, erwbol said: It is no surprise to me that in America where capitalism is so unchecked and which has slowly turned into a Mickey Mouse democracy this is simply accepted. Personally, I think it is immoral to master these works of art to the standard someone with a $200 stereo system might enjoy best. Don't like it? Go find another hobby. Well, in the case of movies and television, sure, I'll stop watching. But I can't stop caring about jazz, so I am pissed off. That sounds kinda funny, coming from someone who is a subject of a King. You've got a choice - transfer the original LPs to digital...unless you are not happy with how the original BN vinyl sounds also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwbol Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clunky Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 In some ways it feels as if the argument has come full circle. First McMaster got panned and RVG's masterings praised, then voices of concern were raised re RVG and some started professing that the McMasters' were the real deal all along. Meanwhile Malcolm Addey is ok but Larry Walsh not ok. My take as someone who really cares about the music is that none of this really matters. Advantages of certain masterings are always overstated as are the deficits of others. Personally I'm more fond of the McMasters I have as I've owned these longer and they feel part of my initial jazz education, when I bought sessions more slowly. By the time RVGs came along my basic jazz education was complete and then I hoovered up any sessions I didn't have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted July 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 19 minutes ago, erwbol said: This is funny as heck but... you really cannot equate an RVG CD to that picture on the right. I get it that you think they all sound like crap but you are not in the majority on that, at least for every RVG CD. Look, I am not a huge fan of the sound of many of these RVG CDs either, but quite a few of them presented the recording in its best sound on CD at the time. I would also note that these RVG CDs are nowhere near as hot as many of today's remasters, particularly in the rock genre. Those TOCJ-9XXXX remasters are ear bleeders in comparison to the RVG CDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjzee Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Clunky said: In some ways it feels as if the argument has come full circle. First McMaster got panned and RVG's masterings praised, then voices of concern were raised re RVG and some started professing that the McMasters' were the real deal all along. Meanwhile Malcolm Addey is ok but Larry Walsh not ok. My take as someone who really cares about the music is that none of this really matters. Advantages of certain masterings are always overstated as are the deficits of others. Personally I'm more fond of the McMasters I have as I've owned these longer and they feel part of my initial jazz education, when I bought sessions more slowly. By the time RVGs came along my basic jazz education was complete and then I hoovered up any sessions I didn't have. I agree; get the music first. It's funny that the same CD can sound so different from one stereo system to another. There really is no reference standard. Just enjoy the music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 What is up with him referring to himself in the third person? I noticed it the first time and went looking for an errant quote mark but then he says it again. "Ron doesn't bounce back like he did." "Ron just needs a little more time." Weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 20 minutes ago, Dan Gould said: What is up with him referring to himself in the third person? I noticed it the first time and went looking for an errant quote mark but then he says it again. "Ron doesn't bounce back like he did." "Ron just needs a little more time." Weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Wood Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 For the longest time I had thought this was Ron McMaster: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlhoots Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 If / when you get to my age, you'll be happy just to hear the music in any format. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, Stefan Wood said: For the longest time I had thought this was Ron McMaster: Maybe the inside of Bill Savory’s shed ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin V Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 Congratulations to Ron McMaster on a fine career. Here's to a happy retirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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