miles65

New Woody Herman Mosaic

245 posts in this topic

Is the cost differential due to shipping, duties, or a combination?

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9 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Is the cost differential due to shipping, duties, or a combination?

What do you mean, exactly?

As with any imported product, this product of course is more expensive if you buy it in an import country.

And in my case the (domestic) cost in the US PLUS overseas shipping PLUS customs duties due on arrival here were a wee $5 above what the list price of the imported product was at Jazzmessengers (incuding shipping because their box set prices include shipping to other countries in the EU). I.e you pay more for the product but save on shipping and customs. In my case it almost was a draw between the two options.

BUT - as discussed in the Savory thread, of course customs duties and associated "handling" (i.e. ripoff) charges vary (e.g. by country) and may make buying in the US substantially more expensive. OTOH it is a rare occurrence that a large box set slips through customs without any duties being charged (in which case you'd save by buying in the US). So that's that ...

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I really didn't mean anything specific, don't know enough. But your explanation helped, thanks!

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Just got an e-mail from Mosaic stating that they are getting close to 700 pre orders they needed to go ahead.

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1 hour ago, ghost of miles said:

We needed about 700 orders so we wouldn't be underwater on this and we are getting close to the mark. We have decided to move ahead with the project and are targeting an end of year release date/early 2019.

Very nice that they mentioned specifically how many orders they thought they needed to go/no-go with this set.  Doesn't mean the calculus will always be the same for every set going forward, but I appreciate their transparency in divulging even this one specific detail.

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1 hour ago, Rooster_Ties said:

Very nice that they mentioned specifically how many orders they thought they needed to go/no-go with this set.  Doesn't mean the calculus will always be the same for every set going forward, but I appreciate their transparency in divulging even this one specific detail.

Also sounded like they were apologizing to JSngry (or someone much like him), i.e. the reference to "pressure."

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Posted (edited)

Welcome to the new Mosaic business model.  Given the collapse of the CD market, this decision is not the least bit surprising.  I like the concept.  Mosaic is more fortunate than most  in that they have a very loyal, established and excitable audience.  I also believe this change will give folks like us a much bigger say in what gets done, or doesn't, in the future.  Who knows?  Maybe even sets from the likes of an Earl Bostic or a Bill Barron or a Clifford Jordan will not be as far out of the question as they have been in the past.  On the downside, if your musical taste lies on the fringes, I doubt you'll see much that will make you happy.  What Mosaic is saying very clearly is that they can no longer afford to take risks or carry inventory.

Edited by Dave James

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4 hours ago, mjzee said:

Also sounded like they were apologizing to JSngry (or someone much like him), i.e. the reference to "pressure."

I doubt that they care what I think. They shouldn't.

But they should get their shit together and come correct going forth!

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Dave James said:

Welcome to the new Mosaic business model.  Given the collapse of the CD market, this decision is not the least bit surprising.  I like the concept.  Mosaic is more fortunate than most  in that they have a very loyal, established and excitable audience.  I also believe this change will give folks like us a much bigger say in what gets done, or doesn't, in the future.  Who knows?  Maybe even sets from the likes of an Earl Bostic or a Bill Barron or a Clifford Jordan will not be as far out of the question as they have been in the past.  On the downside, if your musical taste lies on the fringes, I doubt you'll see much that will make you happy.  What Mosaic is saying very clearly is that they can no longer afford to take risks or carry inventory.

We will probably only see concepts proposed that they think will have appeal to a large cross section of buyers. I know this is a pipe dream and probably has been discussed but partnering with Concord and their Fantasy labels could yield a lot of possibilities.  

Edited by Brad

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Ricky Riccardi put up a post on Facebook a couple of days ago that seems to indicate the Louis Armstrong 1950s Columbia set planning is proceeding apace... said they hope to make an announcement by the end of this year.  But that's one I'm sure they feel more confident about in terms of ultimate overall sales.  

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6 hours ago, Dave James said:

Welcome to the new Mosaic business model.  Given the collapse of the CD market, this decision is not the least bit surprising.  I like the concept.  Mosaic is more fortunate than most  in that they have a very loyal, established and excitable audience.  I also believe this change will give folks like us a much bigger say in what gets done, or doesn't, in the future.  Who knows?  Maybe even sets from the likes of an Earl Bostic or a Bill Barron or a Clifford Jordan will not be as far out of the question as they have been in the past.  On the downside, if your musical taste lies on the fringes, I doubt you'll see much that will make you happy.  What Mosaic is saying very clearly is that they can no longer afford to take risks or carry inventory.

I still want --- nay, demand! -- a set of Benny Goodman's '30s sides. They've done every other major band leader -- Duke, Count, Artie, Jimmie Lunceford, three Woody Hermans,  and Benny's Columbia sides -- but his best period remains neglected.

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Posted (edited)

16 hours ago, JSngry said:

Is the cost differential due to shipping, duties, or a combination?

Shipping costs per set are lower when ordering more than one set; customs and import tax depends on the amount billed by Mosaic; but the most important is the $ - € exchange rate. You will get the idea when you look at the differing prices charged by JazzMessengers for same size sets imported at different times.

Edited by mikeweil

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9 hours ago, Captain Howdy said:

I still want --- nay, demand! -- a set of Benny Goodman's '30s sides. They've done every other major band leader -- Duke, Count, Artie, Jimmie Lunceford, three Woody Hermans,  and Benny's Columbia sides -- but his best period remains neglected.

Most of BG's Victors have been reissued on cd before. When that's the case, Mosaic tends to be a lot more hesitant, but I guess it's always possible--maybe a Savory set of Goodmans, assuming they could ever get the Estate to clear it.

I think this whole business of trying to be sure they had enough preorders to do the Herman set was an improvisation, and my guess is they didn't know when they started it that 700 would be the magic number. I agree with those who argue that if they're going to do this in the future, they need to give us a number from the gitgo. I have the distinct sense, though, that this has been a learning process for them!

 

 

gregmo

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I'm in. Just preordered this set, together with the Savory and the Teddy Wilson. Autumn listening guaranteed! 

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As soon as jazzmessengers have it in stock, I’ll be on to this set. :)

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32 minutes ago, gmonahan said:

Most of BG's Victors have been reissued on cd before. When that's the case, Mosaic tends to be a lot more hesitant, but I guess it's always possible--maybe a Savory set of Goodmans, assuming they could ever get the Estate to clear it.

I think this whole business of trying to be sure they had enough preorders to do the Herman set was an improvisation, and my guess is they didn't know when they started it that 700 would be the magic number. I agree with those who argue that if they're going to do this in the future, they need to give us a number from the gitgo. I have the distinct sense, though, that this has been a learning process for them!

 

 

gregmo

When I saw Scott a few months ago, he said that the Goodman and Ellington estates had thus far been uncooperative with respect to allowing the issue of material from Savoy.  

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On 28/08/2018 at 0:23 PM, Big Beat Steve said:

Still they have never been cheap and their box sets above all rely on extremely high standards (to the extent that they often really are too much of a good thing

This applies exactly to the Jutta Hipp box, which is marvelous. It has a very heavy coffeetable book with text in German and English, that's very, very good. With memries from Hipp and wartime stories. And even some of her drawings and paintings.

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Posted (edited)

41 minutes ago, Bluesnik said:

This applies exactly to the Jutta Hipp box, which is marvelous. It has a very heavy coffeetable book with text in German and English, that's very, very good. With memries from Hipp and wartime stories. And even some of her drawings and paintings.

Except that the Jutta Hipp box is NOT from Bear Family but from Micha Gottschalk who runs the BE!SHARP and BE!JAZZ labels. 

He's the one I alluded to in an earlier post. His books are truly excellent that IMO rank on a level with those of Bear Family but he uses P.D. music material which is a financial advantage (and the saying goes that some were a bit underwhelmed when aurally checking some of the material on his BE!SHARP reissues). Though in fairness it needs to be said that apparently his MOD Records box set, for example, had the blessings of some surviving musicians from those sessions.

Edited by Big Beat Steve

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Posted (edited)

But I bought it from Bear Familiy :huh:, but now I see it's an Be! jazz release and Micha Gottschalk is credited as the producer of the box. And I was sure it was from Bear Family... Thanks for pointing that out.

Edited by Bluesnik
note on Gottschalk added

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35 minutes ago, Bluesnik said:

But I bought it from Bear Familiy :huh:, but now I see it's an Be! jazz release. And I was sure it was from Bear Family... Thanks for pointing that out.

:D An oversight that can easily happen. The overall presentation is smilar and the books can hold their own. You know the first box set I bought from that label (out of only 2 so far admittedly - the other one is the MOD Records set) was the "Texas Box" on the BE!SHARP label featuring Texas rockabilly. This was the label's first box set and the seller I bought it from told me that when the Bear Family people first saw the book to that one they were in tears. :lol:

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8 hours ago, jazztrain said:

When I saw Scott a few months ago, he said that the Goodman and Ellington estates had thus far been uncooperative with respect to allowing the issue of material from Savoy.  

Yes, that's what I heard about the Goodmans from Loren Schoenberg when I talked to him a few years ago. He said the Estate wanted way too much money.

 

 

 

gregmo

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15 hours ago, gmonahan said:

Most of BG's Victors have been reissued on cd before. When that's the case, Mosaic tends to be a lot more hesitant

Aside from numerous half-assed best-of comps, RCA has released four quality compilations:
The Birth of Swing (1935-6)
The Harry James Years
The Harry James Years, Vol 2
The Centennial Collection

The Birth of Swing was complete, while the two Harry James Years were selective. The Birth of Swing was released in 1991 and while I don't think it sounds bad it could surely benefit from new mastering. The Harry James Years, Vol 2 on the other hand sounds truly awful.

Those are the official releases. There are also three Hep discs which duplicate much of the material above but provide some additional good transfers:
Plays Jimmy Mundy
Plays Fletcher Henderson
Plays Fletcher Henderson, Vol 2

If you have all of the above titles, you'll still be 31 sides short of the complete RCA discography, so you'll need these Chronological Classics to fill in the gaps:
Chronological Classics 1936-37
Chronological Classics 1937
Chronological Classics 1937-8
Chronological Classics 1938
Chronological Classics 1938 Vol. 2
Chronological Classics 1938-9
Chronological Classics 1939

Granted, most of those 31 are vocals, but I think a Mosaic box is warranted just to pull all this stuff togehter. The last Lester Young box complied stuff that was easier than this to find on CD.

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@Captain Howdy:

Since you seem to have explored this body of recordings thoroughly:

Assuming you have all the RCA Bluebird twofer LPs from the 70s, would you have all of these (minus the alt. takes probably) that we're talking aobut here?

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There are also the six volumes of "The Indispensable Benny Goodman" on RCA's European Black and White series, and that label's Complete Small Groups set.

 

 

gregmo

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Posted (edited)

14 hours ago, gmonahan said:

There are also the six volumes of "The Indispensable Benny Goodman" on RCA's European Black and White series, and that label's Complete Small Groups set.

I wasn't aware of The Indispensables, but I've always been under the impression that those Jazz Tribune titles were generally pretty poor audio quality. They used the vinyl masters didn't they? The Complete Small Groups set is quite nice, but I was only talking about the orchestral sides. I assume that if Mosaic were to release a box it wouldn't include the small groups.

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16 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

@Captain Howdy:

Since you seem to have explored this body of recordings thoroughly:

Assuming you have all the RCA Bluebird twofer LPs from the 70s, would you have all of these (minus the alt. takes probably) that we're talking aobut here?

No, I don't have any vinyl nor even a turntable. :o

Edited by Captain Howdy

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