Larry Kart Posted August 18, 2018 Report Share Posted August 18, 2018 Just played this 1954 RCA album for the first time in many years and found it quite interesting. Personnel is the Herman band of the time with NYC additions/subs: Collins, Al Porcino, Charlie Walp, or John Howell, trumpets; Sonny Russo, Billy Byers, trbs.; Dick Meldonian, Al Cohn, Bill Perkins, Richie Kamuca, Jack Nimitz, saxes, Jimmy Raney, guitar; Nat Pierce, piano, Red Kelly, bass, Chuck Flores, drms., arrangements Cohn and Pierce. Understandably more tight-knit than the typical NYC studio band of the time — the saxes are particularly together, but then the trumpets and the trombones are too, and I’ve always liked Flores’ Don-Lamond-inspired (or so I assume) drumming. This was a good period for Cohn’s writing I think — all his charts here sound fresh, and while there are a good many soloists, no piece sounds like a string of solos; Al’s writing is always there. Collins’ mellow, more or less neo-Hackett and/or Don Fagerquist-like horn is attractive, and all the other soloists are in fine form — the Pierce original “Donna Mia” inclues a long chase sequence with Perkins and Cohn that is very intense, a real joust of styles and ideas. My old LP has a complete list of soloists, but oddly it doesn’t mention that (obvious to the ear) on two tracks Collins and another trumpeter do the chase thing. Probably it was Walp; Howell was a lead player I think. Only drawback, for my taste, is that Kamuca only gets one solo; this was good time for him too. There was a previous Collins RCA album, “Horn of Plenty,” which I used to have, but it’s disappeared. I was hoping that Fresh Sound had combined the two on one CD, but no such luck, though they have issued them separately. Mark Myers did a nice interview with Collins (then 85) a few years ago on Jazz Wax. Collins left the business in 1962 because he had a grim sense of where he’d probably be in later years, got a degree in library science and became a librarian (natch) — a profession that he liked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 (edited) Thanks for bringing this to everybody's attention again. This was among a host of Fresh Sound** facsimile reissue LPs of 50s jazz I bought unheard-untested in the very late 90s/early 2000s. I gave it a listen but somehow it did not immediately grab me the way others from this reissue series and period (though Al Cohn charts, for ex., mostly are a safe bet with me) so it went back into the racks and has not been pulled out often. Time to spin it again, then ... **Edit: Just checking my pressing: While I bought it along with lots of Fresh Sounds actually this one is an older pre-Fresh Sound reissue pressed by Iberofon for RCA in 1983. I now remember the Spanish leased a lot from other countries at that time and also did a lot of this kind of facsimiles (when reissues in other countries were still marred by ineptly "modernized" covers). I bought several from other labels (e.g. Capitol) during a stay in Spain in 1983. Edited August 19, 2018 by Big Beat Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 Cal Tjader engaged the Herman trumpet section with Dick Collins for a 1954 session, the first ever that Fantasy recorded in stereo, it is part of "Tjader Plays Mambo". However the trumpets do not solo. Dick and his brother Bob both were members of Dave Brubeck's Octet which Tjader joined in 1948; trombonist Bob and Tjader were close friends and shared a sailboat. Will have a look for those RCA albums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 This reminds me of a call I received from Collins' son after we issued the Mingus "West Coast" material on Uptown. He wanted to tell us his father was in the trumpet section on the Fentone sides. He said his dad was really proud of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 34 minutes ago, Chuck Nessa said: This reminds me of a call I received from Collins' son after we issued the Mingus "West Coast" material on Uptown. He wanted to tell us his father was in the trumpet section on the Fentone sides. He said his dad was really proud of it. Just added a note on the discography page of the booklet of my copy of this set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted August 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 Some excerpts from Marc Myers' interview with Collins: Some passages from Collins' Jazz Wax interview: JW: Who did you room with (with Herman)? DC: Trumpeter John Howell. I learned a lot from him about playing trumpet in a section. Certain things you learn by sitting next to a guy in a band. Not talking but by listening and locking into what the lead player is doing. I was the jazz trumpet. The first chair in Woody’s band was John or Al Porcino. JW: What’s special about the lead trumpet? DC: When you have four trumpets playing, they all have to move around on a sheet of music like one instrument. In the trumpet section of a good band, you learn how to play intuitively. You learn how to make the same mistake the lead trumpeter makes. That’s how close the horns have to be and how hard they have to be listening to the lead player. JW: Was trumpeter Burt Collins a relation? DC: Not at all. We just happened to have the same last name. Woody used to drive him nuts. Woody would fool around by announcing, “That was Burt Collins, Dick Collins’ Jewish brother.” That was Woody. It really burned Burt to be compared to anyone. JW: You were featured on Nat Pierce and the Herdsmen for Fantasy in 1954. DC: Actually, that was my session but Nat took over the whole thing. It was my date. He just arranged it. But somewhere along the way he became the leader instead of just the piano player. He just made himself the leader, New York style [laughs]. I just let it happen. Nat never said anything and neither did I. W: You knew Al Cohn, who was on both [RCA] albums. DC: Al and I got along real well. One night he came up to my hotel room. I had no booze or pot. Al didn’t ask for anything. He just sat down and wrote a chart on the bed. We talked and he wrote while we talked. JW: Which song was it? DC: The Long Night—on Horn of Plenty. He had nothing to drink, not even a Coca-Cola. He just wrote and talked. It was amazing to watch him work. JW: Who introduced you to Cohn? DC: Trumpeter Al Porcino. I remember the three of us were standing together. Al Cohn turned to me and said, “That’s Cohn, without an ‘e’ ” [laughs]. That’s pure Al. I mean, who would even bother to say that? Al, that’s who. Al would just sit down and blow. He was amazing. JW: Why did you cut back and stop recording in 1962? DC: The business was slowing down. I said to myself, “Someday you’re not going to be 30 anymore. You’re going to be 65 and then 70, and everything will have changed. What will you be doing?” The answer, invariably, was, “Nothing.” I had no real skills other than playing the horn. I only had an undergraduate degree. JW: What did you do? DC: I decided to get a masters degree in library science. I went back to school and became a librarian in the pubic library system in Los Angeles. I worked there for 15 years and today I’m living on that pension. I don’t have to worry about a Saturday night, as some older musicians do. JW: Did the people who worked with you at the library know who you were? DC: No. I kept those worlds separate. I was still playing locally at night. I’d work during the day at the library and play at Disneyland at night in Anaheim for a week or a month. I joined the local union in Orange County so I could do that. JW: Did you enjoy being a librarian? DC: I loved it. Too many people look down on the job but it’s as honorable an occupation as any other. Eventually I was hired by Cal Tech to help the university create a special library for earthquake engineering. I had to read all the books to determine which ones we should have on the shelves. I jumped right in and had a ball. JW: Do you have any regrets? DC: Just one. I wish I didn’t drink so much early on. JW: How did you manage to play so beautifully? DC: Thank you. Maybe because I liked to memorize song lyrics before blowing on the melody. My dad raised me that way. A new piece of sheet music would come in and we’d start learning the lyrics and melody at the exact same time. P.S. Collins' early trumpet teacher was Red Nichols’ father. From part I of the Collins interview: Starting at age 6, I took lessons from Red Nichols’ father, who lived in San Jose. When I first went over to his place, he tied a trumpet from the chandelier. When I reached out to grab the horn, he said not to touch it, that I had to learn to play the trumpet while it hung there without putting my hands on it. The point was to teach me the right way to blow. So I had to approach the instrument delicately. JW: How did you do it? DC: I had to learn to blow without pressing my mouth into the mouthpiece. The whole idea was hands off, easy treatment and no force. Nichols was a great guy. He'd take three or four kids out to the park, and we'd sit around a tree. He’d have a half a crate of apples out there, and we'd eat them while we talked. I ran into Red Nichols [pictured] years later and told him I had studied trumpet with his father. Red said, “Yeah, so what?” JW: Didn’t he get along with his dad? DC: Apparently not. I think Red’s father gave him hell. Like Conrad Gozzo’s father, who told him, “If you make one mistake that’s one. Second mistake, that’s two." After the third mistake, his father would whack him with rolled up paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 An interesting read. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 5 hours ago, Chuck Nessa said: This reminds me of a call I received from Collins' son after we issued the Mingus "West Coast" material on Uptown. He wanted to tell us his father was in the trumpet section on the Fentone sides. He said his dad was really proud of it. Thanks for that info - I will have to add Collins to the personnel of that session in which Tjader played drums. The second revised edition of S. Duncan Reid's Tjader bio with my disco is coming up sooner than we thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 (edited) On 18/08/2018 at 1:44 AM, Larry Kart said: There was a previous Collins RCA album, “Horn of Plenty,” which I used to have, but it’s disappeared. I was hoping that Fresh Sound had combined the two on one CD, but no such luck, though they have issued them separately. On 18/08/2018 at 1:44 AM, Larry Kart said: 'Horn of Plenty' is not as interesting as 'King Richard'. It resembles those 'mood' albums that came out in thé 50's. Can't remember why I kept those Dick Collins LP's when I sold my vinyls. Stiill have the two . The Fresh Sound vinyls were excellent reissues. 'Horn of Plenty' has the original foldout cover plus liner note in spanish by Jordi Pujol. One added attraction for me in 'King Richard' are the trombone solos by Billy Byers. Loved Byers writing which are generally acknowledged but his trombone work remains sadly underappreciated. Edited August 20, 2018 by brownie Errors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted August 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 Yes, that's some of the best Byers I know. Do you know and have any thoughts about his RCA Jazz Workshop album or his "Byers's Guide," neither of which I've heard? 3 minutes ago, Larry Kart said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 Unfortunately unhave any of Byers albums anymore. Had the Jazz Workshop LP and enjoyed it then. Grew a strong liking to Byers trombone when I found out he was playing the sublime introduction and ending to Dinah Washington 'Mad About thé Boy',. I remember suggesting Mosaic several years ago to issue à box set with all those RCA Jazz Workshops. They seemed interested but nothing happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Friedman Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 (edited) I had both King Richard and Horn of Plenty on the original RCA LP’s. Bought them when they were first issued. Years later I sold them when I acquired the two sessions on RCA CD’s. Always liked both of them. Edited August 20, 2018 by Peter Friedman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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