Larry Kart Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 The price on Amazon is prohibitive, $71, but if you have any fondness for (arguably) the best band singer of the '30s and '40s and ever see this two-CD set of Forrest transcriptions from 1949-50 at a reasonable price ( (I got it a re-sale shop today for 27 cents!) don't hesitate. Forrest is in superb form, the program is all standards (54 tracks, most of them about 2 minutes, but that's fine; they're all Forrest, hardly any instrumental work), and sound quality on Forrest is quite good. If you don't know her, one way to describe Forrest is that if Judy Garland were a jazz singer, she might have sounded something like this. There's a throb in both their voices, a more or less erotic throb in Forrest's, while what makes Forrest a jazz singer, a least by my lights, is that she subtly reshapes melodies like an improvising instrumentalist -- Benny Carter perhaps. https://www.amazon.com/Complete-World-Transcriptions-Forrest-1999-11-16/dp/B01K8MJT7Y/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1537636742&sr=1-1&keywords=helen+forrest+world+transcriptions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 Is the accompaniment identified at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted September 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 1 hour ago, JSngry said: Is the accompaniment identified at all? Yes -- string orchestra led by Carmen Dragon; leader on the big band tracks not identified, may also be Dragon. Brief trumpet solos by, annotator Scott Yanow speculates, Manny Klein or Andy Secrest. Dragon's name may make the blood run cold, but so far the tracks with strings aren't particularly soupy or swirly; nothing can mess with Forrest anyway; she's in charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlhoots Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 I'd pay 27 cents but not $71!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 24 minutes ago, Larry Kart said: Dragon's name may make the blood run cold ... Indeed ... Another name associated with those (for once) not quite so fond memories when listening by accident and in bewilderment to the extremely MOR-housewife-background-muzak-programming on AFN FM in the mid-to late 70s. And leaving one wondering if this "Carmen" was indeed "man" or not actually "woman" (yes, admittedly I wasn't aware of Carmen Mastren yet, let alone Carmen Leggio, and the name of Carmine Appice known from different listening contexts was NOT the same name, so was no clue at that time ... ) But what would ACTUALLY make me run is the STRING orchestra. Not something I'd associate with the "swing" in "jazz" big bands. But if I ever come across this one at the equivalent of 27c I'll take your word for it that the strings aren't THAT intrusive ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 I only know Carmen Dragon by his later work on Capitol, so there's nothing there that would make me or my blood run, cold or otherwise. Forrest was certainly a star pop singer at the time, so I'd expect "trappings", but I'd also expect her to be totally badass. Neither expectation seems unreasonable in the least! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted September 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 OK -- now some tracks from the Forrest album (her subtle reshaping of "Embraceable You" is really special): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkt4NQ1AAoQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fqPYRikSgc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbMCpjtPWw8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R77jEHNP4RU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apeJs4KiJ58 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted September 24, 2018 Report Share Posted September 24, 2018 (edited) Been listening in to some of them - and sorry, while her voice does have some appeal she would have deserved a different backing. Just IMHO admittedly, but these strings stil stifle the proceedings. Unswinging as they come. Yes I know a more big band-era like big band-ish orchestra backing probably would not have been the motto of the day in this early post-war period but I'll go on record as saying I for one DON'T like and don't dig this. Give me Mildred Bailey or Lee Wiley (to name just two white female singers) any time. Edited September 24, 2018 by Big Beat Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted September 24, 2018 Report Share Posted September 24, 2018 I've never gotten bitten by Bailey, nor wrapped up in Wiley, but Helen Forrest...hell yeah. These arrangements, they don't bother me, but I can see how they could be a distraction for some. But check her out with Goodman & Shaw, she was the/a real deal. Her time had a float that those two didn't, and with the right pulse underneath it...yeah. And she could really work vowels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duaneiac Posted September 24, 2018 Report Share Posted September 24, 2018 9 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said: Give me Mildred Bailey or Lee Wiley (to name just two white female singers) any time. Except Mildred Bailey was, through her mother, of Native American ancestry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted September 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2018 10 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said: Been listening in to some of them - and sorry, while her voice does have some appeal she would have deserved a different backing. Just IMHO admittedly, but these strings stil stifle the proceedings. Unswinging as they come. Yes I know a more big band-era like big band-ish orchestra backing probably would not have been the motto of the day in this early post-war period but I'll go on record as saying I for one DON'T like and don't dig this. Give me Mildred Bailey or Lee Wiley (to name just two white female singers) any time. I'm a fan of all three singers, and/but they're quite different from each other. For me, on these tracks Forrest brings her own fine, urgent, and as Jim says floating time feel to the proceedings. Is it finger-popping swing? Not here, but it shouldn't be, given the material and the moods. Is it it powerfully, meaningfully rhythmic? For me, yes. A different backing? It would have to be just right, and not every overtly swinging small group or big band of that time would have been. This way, the accompanying forces' rhythmic feel, such as it is, leaves Forrest's own rhythmic feel, not mention her considerable sexiness, to be felt quite clearly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted September 24, 2018 Report Share Posted September 24, 2018 Time to post this again.The closer you listen, the better it gets. and this, this is about the most difficult tempo there is, imo (and perhaps all but extinct?). And she is in there. All the way. and here again: I can certainly see how you can sing those songs differently. I don't see how you can sing them better. 47 minutes ago, Larry Kart said: A different backing? It would have to be just right.. At the time, you would have had Axel Stordahl, Paul Weston, and...????? For this kind of gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted September 24, 2018 Report Share Posted September 24, 2018 And if we have to talk about "white singers" (which really, what does that mean, that they come out of a factory?) how many would sing this this song without any "cuteness" to there time or enunciation (which is more than you can completely say about the band). My god, she swung in the most natural of ways, no need to be anything other than her own sweet self. The phrases just rolled out like a feather on the wind, only a feather that knew exactly where it was going to land and hen. She's so unique that way, when she lands, she lands, and everything in between is float. I don't know if it qualifies as "jazz" or not, but jeezus, what difference does it make, somebody has this kind of feel, I'm not going to look for an excuse to not embrace it as fully as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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