Michael Cuscuna - King of the Reissues

[Brad]

 

[Kevin Bresnahan]

"After 40 years of doing Blue Note, there's still a few things unissued and believe me, they're unissued for a very good reason".

I guess we can forget about that Tyrone Washington.

[Rooster_Ties]

On ‎9‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 1:28 PM, Kevin Bresnahan said:

"After 40 years of doing Blue Note, there's still a few things unissued and believe me, they're unissued for a very good reason".

I guess we can forget about that Tyrone Washington.

I've listened to The Trainwreck 100+ times (maybe closer to 200 times? -- I know it never left my car stereo the first 3 months I had it), and I honestly think it's Tyrone's BEST album.  No kidding either.

You can quibble at the verbal sound-effects on that one track -- but iirc, its complete alternate take doesn't have those vocals.  AND, with four (4!) complete, and fully-realized alternates for fully 4 out of the 5 total tracks (all of them consistently executed, without anything even remotely like a breakdown) -- you can clearly tell exactly what was intended, or Tyrone's vision (if you will) for the session.

Herbie's playing (Hancock, cuz there's two Herbies on the date) is masterful.  When Tyrone lays out, it's like Herbie's playing from The All Seeing Eye, but piano-trio only (and what I wouldn't give for a Herbie piano-trio album circa 1968, that sounds like the Valdo Williams on Savoy, or that incredible Hasaan/Roach date).

One supposed gripe about the date is that Herbie (Nichols) and Jack D don't really hook up at times, but I don't hear that at all.  Maybe some of it is just a little tentative, but I just hear a band feeling their way through a thorny set of tunes -- but it's NOT a date that was criminally under-rehearsed or anything.  The heads are complicated, but they all lock in, and on every take too.  And no takes with alternates are especially better or worse, and I'd be hard-pressed to picks 'masters' among the 4 takes with alternates.  Maybe the one 'with' vs. the one 'with-out' the "You're a Mean One, Mr. Grinch"-style vocals.  But I think I actually like the one with vocals a little better, but you could make a case either way.

All in all, it's a fine and cohesive statement.  I'd probably personally pony up $500 to a Kickstarter-type effort to get it released.  And if I thought it was make-or-break, I might even go in for $750 total (but I'd want 20 copies of the resulting CD).  Here's my credit-card, I'll pony that up today.

It's a damn fine album, I don't care what anyone says.  Honestly, I like it even better than Natural Essence (which I quite like).  The one slow tune (hard to call it a 'ballad') from The Trainwreck, is certainly better than the one ballad from Natural Essence, for instance.  The other horns on Natural Essence are great, but honestly -- and I'm being totally serious here -- I think The Trainwreck is right up there with Fuchsia Swing Song, but with more of the energy and 'outness' of All Seeing Eye.

I sure wish it was out there, legit.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Rooster_Ties

[Kevin Bresnahan]

47 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:

I've listened to The Trainwreck 100+ times (maybe closer to 200 times? -- I know it never left my car stereo the first 3 months I had it), and I honestly think it's Tyrone's BEST album.  No kidding either.

You can quibble at the verbal sound-effects on that one track -- but iirc, it's complete alternate take doesn't have those vocals.  AND, with four (4!) complete, and fully-realized alternates for fully 4 out of the 5 total tracks -- you can clearly tell exactly what was intended, or Tyrone's vision (if you will) for the session.  Herbie's playing (Hanckock, cuz there's two Herbies on the date) is masterful.  When Tyrone lays out, it's like Herbie's playing from The All Seeing Eye, but piano-trio only (and what I wouldn't give for a Herbie piano-trio album circa 1968, that sounds like the Valdo Williams on Savoy, or that incredible Hassan/Roach date).

One supposed gripe about the date is that Herbie (Nichols) and Jack D don't really hook up at times, but I don't hear that at all.  Maybe some of it is just a little tentative, but I just hear a band feeling their way through a thorny set of tunes -- but it's NOT a date that was criminally under-rehearsed or anything.  The heads are complicated, but they all lock in, and on every take too.  And no takes with alternates are especially better or worse, and I'd be hard-pressed to picks 'masters' among the 4 takes with alternates. -- Maybe the one 'with' vs. the one 'with-out' the "You're a Mean One, Mr. Grinch"-style vocals).  But I think I actually like the one with vocals a little better, but you could make a case either way.

All in all, it's a fine and cohesive statement.  I'd probably personally pony up $500 to a Kickstarter-type effort to get it released.  And if I thought it was make-or-break, I might even go in for $750 total (but I'd want 20 copies of the resulting CD).  Here's my credit-card, I'll pony that up today.

It's a damn fine album, I don't care what anyone says.  Honestly, I like it even better than Natural Essence (which I quite like).  The one slow tune (hard to call it a 'ballad') from The Trainwreck, is certainly better than the one ballad from Natural Essence, for instance.  The other horns on Natural Essence are great, but honestly -- and I'm being totally serious here -- I think The Trainwreck is right up there with Fuchsia Swing Song, but with more of the energy and 'outness' of All Seeing Eye.

I sure wish it was out there, legit.

I've still never hard the Trainwreck, but I have heard several other unissued Blue Note dates and I agree with you that Michael is being too harsh on some of these dates. Yes, there are warts, but to state that they're all unissued "for a very good reason" is going too far in my estimation.

For instance, I think that Blakey's Jazz Messengers recording from 1959 could be released with some judicious editing, and I've never even heard all the takes. Sure, it would take some track splicing and maybe some synchronization trickery, but with today's music editing programs, probably doable. They do much more with today's modern pop songs. AutoTune anyone?

Ike Quebec's date with Grant Green is different story. I don't think that one is worthy of putting out even though Grant Green plays pretty well on most of it. Truth be told, they all sound wasted to me, much like that Dexter Gordon/Sonny Stitt date that they issued one track from ("Oh, Lady Be Good" on that Lost Sessions Connoisseur CD).

[Rooster_Ties]

1 hour ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

I've still never hard the Trainwreck, but I have heard several other unissued Blue Note dates and I agree with you that Michael is being too harsh on some of these dates. Yes, there are warts, but to state that they're all unissued "for a very good reason" is going too far in my estimation.

I don't think The (supposed) Trainwreck needs any editing at all -- not a whit.  Every take starts solidly, progresses logically, and ends in a conclusive way.  And nobody sounds like they were under the influence of anything.  And -- I swear I'm being honest here -- I think Tyrone's playing is just fantastic, throughout the entire session.  The whole thing is a joy to listen to, imho.

[JSngry]

So...is this cat still got his hands in Mosaic? Please tell me that he does, please.

that dude has really good hair these days, btw. Back in the day, it confused me, it seemed all helmet-y. Now it looks just right. He must have good old-hair genes. Would it be inappropriate to inquire as to his ancestral heritage? I mean, to be that old with hair like that...credit should be given to whatever gene pool he has that has gifted him with this!

His he any relation to Jackie and/or Nadia Cuscuna?

[Brad]

Yes, he’s still there; saw him there at the open house, and the emails from Mosaic about this or that set come from him and Scott. 

[JSngry]

I hope he doesn't entirely relinquish the future selection of the new sets to Wenzel.

[Brad]

Maybe Scott is a Bill Barron fan. 

[JSngry]

Maybe, but I'd prefer to roll those dice on Michael.

[Bluesnik]

I too hope for Cuscuna to be rolling the Mosaic ball for a little longer. Or for pretty longer. And about Bill Barron I finally heard him (didn't know him) after Jim Sangrey's insistence and I liked hima lot. Look in the What are you listening to NOW-thread in a little while.

[Rooster_Ties]

6 hours ago, Brad said:

Maybe Scott is a Bill Barron fan. 

I still think we should all pick a particular 2-3 week period, and everyone call asking about when they can pre-order the upcoming Barron box they'd heard about.

Only half kidding too.  If they got 30 calls about it, would that maybe get them at least thinking about one?  Or how many calls would it take?

[Dan Gould]

Doesn't Bill Barron fit into Lon's HAAG concept (Half-Assed Avant Garde)?  That is, inside/outside guy?  If he's more like Joe Hen than Tyrone, I might give a listen some day.

[JSngry]

Bill Barron is in no way like Tyrone Washington. He's more like, you know, when Joe pushes the harmony, that's Bill Barron's de facto starting point.

He's not a "bluesy" player at all, at least not overtly, but he always swings, and he always has a connection to his underlying structures. His original structure, especially the later ones, are pretty non-song form, but still, structures, repetitive cycles, you can hear where you are at all times.

Two things to consider also - he used his brother all the way to the end, and you know that Kenny Barron ain't gonna do no halfass anything, right?

also, if you're not one to really listen harmonically, his stuff might not sound all that "different". Rhythmically, he swings.

If you're looking for a somewhat easy in to his world, just to see, this will likely be the one for you:

 

[sgcim]

22 hours ago, JSngry said:

So...is this cat still got his hands in Mosaic? Please tell me that he does, please.

that dude has really good hair these days, btw. Back in the day, it confused me, it seemed all helmet-y. Now it looks just right. He must have good old-hair genes. Would it be inappropriate to inquire as to his ancestral heritage? I mean, to be that old with hair like that...credit should be given to whatever gene pool he has that has gifted him with this!

His he any relation to Jackie and/or Nadia Cuscuna?

Up until he started doing some jazz production, I only knew of him as a rock and/or roll DJ on WABC FM (now WPLJ). They told us young boomers they were an 'underground' rock radio station, and there was a guy who called himself 'Brother John'', who told us how much he loved us...

Upon doing a little searching, Brother John was also a Lutheran Minister, who was part of a syndicated format called 'LOVE', which was some sort of unholy mixture of Lutheranism and 'progressive' rock. Back then they called new, unheard rock music 'progressive'. It wasn't what's now known as PROG.

Edited September 27, 2018 by sgcim

[Chuck Nessa]

3 hours ago, Rooster_Ties said:

I still think we should all pick a particular 2-3 week period, and everyone call asking about when they can pre-order the upcoming Barron box they'd heard about.

Only half kidding too.  If they got 30 calls about it, would that maybe get them at least thinking about one?  Or how many calls would it take?

Yeah, and then we can do that with all the cool girls and maybe we can all get what we want.

[JSngry]

If we have cool girls who are into Bill Barron, I say we already have what we want as well as what we need.

 

[Dan Gould]

16 hours ago, JSngry said:

Bill Barron is in no way like Tyrone Washington. He's more like, you know, when Joe pushes the harmony, that's Bill Barron's de facto starting point.

He's not a "bluesy" player at all, at least not overtly, but he always swings, and he always has a connection to his underlying structures. His original structure, especially the later ones, are pretty non-song form, but still, structures, repetitive cycles, you can hear where you are at all times.

Two things to consider also - he used his brother all the way to the end, and you know that Kenny Barron ain't gonna do no halfass anything, right?

also, if you're not one to really listen harmonically, his stuff might not sound all that "different". Rhythmically, he swings.

If you're looking for a somewhat easy in to his world, just to see, this will likely be the one for you:

 

Thanks for the recommended intro ... listened yesterday, didn't hate it, didn't love it.  I agree he swings, but you know how much I prefer more of a blues feeling.  In addition his tone wasn't really appealing to me the way Hank or many other tenors appeal.  

[JSngry]

Bill Barron might not be for you. His tone is more out of Dexter, and he's definitely got a bit of quirk about him.

[Dan Gould]

21 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Bill Barron might not be for you. His tone is more out of Dexter, and he's definitely got a bit of quirk about him.

I was actually going to cite Dex as another more appealing tone. Dex mixed a bit of Jackie Mac?  I don't know, I heard it as more sour than Dex.  I'll listen again I've bookmarked the vid.  Again didn't hate, the familiarity of the tunes certainly helped.

[JSngry]

I thought the standards bight be a good gateway. His originals tend to have structural and harmonic quirks. Nothing at all "outside", just not "typical" structures.

Also, this was his last record (I think?), so his tone is perhaps not as "full blown" as it had been. But definitely traceable back to Dex in basic terms.

Here's a good example of what he was up to in the 80s.

and the 60s, with Booker Ervin:

 

[Dan Gould]

16 minutes ago, JSngry said:

I thought the standards bight be a good gateway. His originals tend to have structural and harmonic quirks. Nothing at all "outside", just not "typical" structures.

Also, this was his last record (I think?), so his tone is perhaps not as "full blown" as it had been. But definitely traceable back to Dex in basic terms.

Here's a good example of what he was up to in the 80s.

and the 60s, with Booker Ervin:

 

Yeah, the 80s wasn't working for me but I saw that Ervin thing on AMG and was curious. Definitely liked that track!