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Joe Henderson in Japan

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I've long looked for this album's Japanese version without success. Now it has come to my attention that it was released as "Henderson's Habiliment" by Victor Japan (SMJX-10123) but tracklisting and lenght does not quite match.

"Joe Henderson in Japan" is Round Midnight / Out'n'In / Blue Bossa / Junk Blues  and "Henderson's Habiliment" is Junk Blues / Round Midnight / Blue Bossa / Black Narcissus.  Total timings are 45:01 and approx. 51 min respectively. I don't have the Japanese version, so, is this different from US version?  Out'n'In vs. Black Narcissus? Wonder why it was never (probably) released with both of those tracks. The 8CD complete Milestone box would have been proper place, but even the Japanese have not picked this up, not even a single Japanese CD reissue afaik which is weird considering how special this must have been for them. It's their boys sitting in with mighty Joe Henderson on this one!

 

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Here's what the Lord disco says:

Henderson's Habiliment : Joe Henderson Quartet : Joe Henderson (ts) Hideo Ichikawa (el-p) Kunimitsu Inaba (b) Motohiko Hino (d)
  Live "Junk Club", Tokyo, Japan, August 4, 1971
  'Round midnight (1) World (Jap)SMJX-10123, Milestone MSP9047
  Black narcissus [Out'n in]      -                          -
  Blue bossa (1)      -                          -
  Junk blues (1)      -                          -
Note:

"Black Narcissus" as "Out 'n in" (a retitling of "In 'n out") on Milestone, OJC releases.
Milestone MSP9047 titled "Joe Henderson in Japan"; titles (1) are all edited on this release. This followed a pattern that the U.S. version

aimed at keeping closer towards the usual 40 to 45 minutes per disk format of U.S. LPs, while the Japanese Victor release runs over 51 minutes long.
All above titles also on OJC CD1040-2 [CD], Milestone 8MCD-4413-2 [CD].

Edited by mikeweil

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Lord also lists this here:

  Live "Tokyo Toshi Center Hall", Tokyo, Japan, August 5, 1971
  Sunrise in Tokyo Fontana (Jap)PAT1064, Philips (Jap)FX-8520
  So what        -                     -
  Get magic again        -                     -
Note: All above titles also on Jazz Door 12120 [CD] titled "Sunrise in Tokyo".
All above titles also on Philips (Jap)PHCE-4128 [CD] titled "Joe Henderson And Kikuchi Hino In Concert".

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So all of the various Milestone issues (LP, CD, box set) of the "In Japan" material have used the edited tracks? Makes me want to hear what was left out.

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The Milestone box set obviously has the shortened versions, as they add up to around 45 minutes.

Looking at the releases on discogs, only the Japanese Victor LP SMJX-10123 seems to have the unedited tracks. So Keepnews overlooked this when preparing the box set. 

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s-l1600.jpg

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yeah, been looking for the Japanese version as well -- I've seen it a few times, but always a bit more abused than I'd like at the prices commanded.

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Would that then be a rare quartet(!?) version specifically of "Black Narcissus"?

(I'm not immediately recalling a released performance of that tune by Joe specifically in a quartet-only config.)

Tempting!!

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No, it would not be. It would be, per Lord per Mike Weil (see above):

Note:

"Black Narcissus" as "Out 'n in" (a retitling of "In 'n out") on Milestone, OJC releases.

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Am I misunderstanding something? I thought the original recording of "Black Narcissus" (on the 'Power to the People' album) was a quartet version. 

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15 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

Am I misunderstanding something? I thought the original recording of "Black Narcissus" (on the 'Power to the People' album) was a quartet version. 

I guess I should have been clearer to say a *live* version, which is would have made it more unique - more so than being a quartet only.

(Was only on mobile all day earlier (on the train), and I'd forgotten "BN" was quartet only on PTTP originally.)

 

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Was there ever a "deluxe edition" of this album released with five (5!) tunes??

Because I just stumbled on a two-part still stream-able radio-show that seems to have run 2 weeks ago, that includes 'broadcast' of the complete(?) 5-track version, which you can listen to here:

https://player.fm/series/citr-the-jazz-show-55506/trumpeter-ingrid-jensen-invisible-sounds-for-kenny-wheeler-plus-tenor-saxophone-master-joe-henderson-in-japan

I say two-part, because it's really a super-long 3+ hour show, the first half being Ingrid Jensen -- and the second half being "Joe Henderson In Japan" in it's (supposed) 5-track edition.

The player is down at the bottom, and although it's not super intuitive, you can click your mouse on the grey "progress bar" that runs the entire width of your screen.  There are also clickable "forward 30 seconds" and "backward 30 seconds" buttons down near the bottom too -- and it was only clicking them a whole bunch, did I even realize the almost invisible progress-bar that *will* let you click anywhere within the entire 3+ hour stream until you can sort of get to about the right spot.  (BTW, part of the show where the announcer starts talking about Joe starts at about the 1h:36m:05s mark, followed by the entire "In Japan" 5-track version.)

QUESTION:  Discogs does NOT have any sort of 5-track version of "In Japan" listed on CD -- **was there ever one??  And out of what country??**

PS:  Here's the text-description of the radio-show, in case it ever gets taken down...

  • Two Jazz Features are happening tonight....Ladies and gentlemen A DOUBLE FEATURE! As we were unable to broadcast live last week due to bad weather we are here live tonight and last week's planned Jazz Feature is on tap tonight. Canadian trumpet virtuoso Ingrid Jensen has a new album out and it's a beautiful tribute to the late great composer Kenny Wheeler. Ingrid and tenor saxophonist Steve Treseler, who doubles on clarinet and bass clarinet teams with Ingrid and piano giant Geoffrey Keezer, bassist Martin Wind and drummer Jon Wikan plus a cameo appearance by Ingrid's talented sister Christine on soprano saxophone in a series of Wheeler compositions.The music is fresh and vibrant and recently recorded in 2018 for the Whirwind label. "Invisible Sounds for Kenny Wheeler" explores the many lyrical, poignant and energetic compositional explorations by the immortal Kenny Wheeler. Our second Jazz Feature is called "Joe Henderson in Japan". It features the tenor saxophone giant at his very best supported by a Japanese rhythm section. It was recorded live in a small club full of very vocal enthusiasts. Joe was happy with the band and the audience ambiance and delivered one of his finest performances on record. For years on the domestic recording, only 4 lengthy tunes were issued but tonight we hear the deluxe edition with 5 tunes. Of the many many albums by Joe Henderson, this one stands near the top. Joe, of course was along with Wayne Shorter in the 1960s was someone who set the standard for tenor saxophone playing and he is still very influential today despite his passing in 2001 at age 64. Joe Henderson in Japan....don't miss this one! Tonight's DOUBLE FEATURE! TWO FOR THE PRICE OF ONE!xRTqWNktq54
Edited by Rooster_Ties

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On 6.10.2018 at 0:07 AM, mikeweil said:

Here's what the Lord disco says:

Henderson's Habiliment : Joe Henderson Quartet : Joe Henderson (ts) Hideo Ichikawa (el-p) Kunimitsu Inaba (b) Motohiko Hino (d)
  Live "Junk Club", Tokyo, Japan, August 4, 1971
  'Round midnight (1) World (Jap)SMJX-10123, Milestone MSP9047
  Black narcissus [Out'n in]      -                          -
  Blue bossa (1)      -                          -
  Junk blues (1)      -                          -
Note:

"Black Narcissus" as "Out 'n in" (a retitling of "In 'n out") on Milestone, OJC releases.
Milestone MSP9047 titled "Joe Henderson in Japan"; titles (1) are all edited on this release. This followed a pattern that the U.S. version

aimed at keeping closer towards the usual 40 to 45 minutes per disk format of U.S. LPs, while the Japanese Victor release runs over 51 minutes long.
All above titles also on OJC CD1040-2 [CD], Milestone 8MCD-4413-2 [CD].

Just had a listen to this album as in the Milestone Years box - "Out 'n' In" is exactly that, not a mistitled "Black Narcissus". What now?

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5 hours ago, mikeweil said:

Just had a listen to this album as in the Milestone Years box - "Out 'n' In" is exactly that, not a mistitled "Black Narcissus". What now?

Yeah, I could have sworn I've never heard "Black Narcissus" from this live session.  FWIW, it can be heard at the 2h:21m:45s mark during the 3+ hour radio-show that can be streamed from this link (see my post above)...

https://player.fm/series/citr-the-jazz-show-55506/trumpeter-ingrid-jensen-invisible-sounds-for-kenny-wheeler-plus-tenor-saxophone-master-joe-henderson-in-japan

The tune runs from 2h:21m:45s through about the 2h:34m:50s mark.  Or about 13:05 total.

Also, hitting the play-button on my work-PC today, this came up as an mp3 in my standard media-player (totally differently than at home), so you may not have to jump through the hoops I detailed up above to get to the right time in the stream for this tune.

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I think the most logical explanation, or maybe plausible explanation would be more accurate...  ...is that (maybe?) on the original Henderson's Habiliment release of this album in Japan (on Victor), that the last track really is "Back Narcissus".  The timing, according to the link below, is rather close to the 13:05 length I estimated from the stream I found last night.  On the "...Habiliment" LP, that length is 25-ish seconds longer, but add 5 seconds on the front -- and 20 seconds of applause on the back end (especially since it's the last track on side 2 of the LP), and that could totally be the exact same song length.

https://www.discogs.com/Joe-Henderson-Hendersons-Habiliment/release/8960668

The host of the jazz show on that Vancouver station seems to have been there since the mid-80s, his name is Gavin Walker according to this link.  I should try and reach out and see what the story is on this "deluxe" edition he played, and what the source is.

https://www.citr.ca/radio/the-jazz-show/

 

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So there really are five tracks, and neither the OJC team when they did the reissue CD nor Keepnews when he prepared the box had any clue. The people who maintain the Lord Disco don't have, either - though I admit that they cannot know and listen to everything they list, I wonder what their source for their information was - or it simply was an assumption. That's why I never completely trust any discographical source in the internet, except for those hosted on jazzdiscography.com - and even there you might find minor errors. Serious discographical research is an unforgiving beast. The only guarantee is to get the record and listen yourself.

Edited by mikeweil

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FWIW, I did a search on CDJapan.com (incl. out of print stuff), specifically for "In Japan", and absolutely no version came up at all (out of 6 pages of Joe Henderson releases over the last however man years).

So it doesn't appear to be some recent Japanese CD reissue, best as I can tell.

2 hours ago, Rooster_Ties said:

The host of the jazz show on that Vancouver station seems to have been there since the mid-80s, his name is Gavin Walker according to this link.  I should try and reach out and see what the story is on this "deluxe" edition he played, and what the source is.

https://www.citr.ca/radio/the-jazz-show/

The host seems to have a Facebook page, but I have to confess - I've never been on Facebook.  Just glancing at his page, does it look like something that's actually active? - like could he be contacted through is Facebook page? (Only asking, because it doesn't have any posts and such, like I normally seem to think I've seen before on FB).

https://www.facebook.com/gavin.walker

Here's his bio too...

http://vancouverjazz.com/disc/artists/g_walker.shtml

And there seems to be a contact phone number, in order to book him for gigs.  Worst case, I could call that and see where that gets me.

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I did a really deep search on-line last night for a good hour, every which way I could think of.  Even using the Japanese characters that represented "Joe Henderson" "In Japan" and "Black Narcissus" (which are perfectly good search keys in Google).

Can't for the life of me find any recent re-release of "In Japan" -- let along anything that indicates a 5-track version (vs. the regular 4-track version).

I think "Henderson's Habiliment" did come up more than a few times, but always (seemingly) the old LP (and not some recent CD-reissue of it -- far as I can tell).

Really a puzzle.  Much as I do really like "In Japan" (far as it goes), have to confess to loving the date with nearly the same line-up (plus Terumasa Hino) from almost that exact same date (+/- one day, iirc) -- and about 4-5 other Joe Hendreson "Milestone" dates -- even more.

THING IS, "Black Narcissus" is just about my *absolute favorite* Joe Henderson tune (among many) -- and I'd be hard-pressed not to at least consider picking up an expanded edition of "In Japan" even just for that one track.  [For a good 10 years not, I usually cite "Black Narcissus" and "Beatrice" as my two favorite jazz tunes ever.]

This is really a puzzle.

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There is a version of "Dancing Mist" that was either an extra cut from the Habiliment session or the one on Philips.

and if anyone wants to sell me a NM Habiliment, I'm still looking!

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14 hours ago, Rooster_Ties said:

THING IS, "Black Narcissus" is just about my *absolute favorite* Joe Henderson tune (among many) -- and I'd be hard-pressed not to at least consider picking up an expanded edition of "In Japan" even just for that one track.  [For a good 10 years not, I usually cite "Black Narcissus" and "Beatrice" as my two favorite jazz tunes ever.]

Good enough an excuse to go hunting!

There is one copy of the LP offerered on discogs, but the price asked for is 200 bucks ......

https://www.discogs.com/Joe-Henderson-Hendersons-Habiliment/release/8960668

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12 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

There is a version of "Dancing Mist" that was either an extra cut from the Habiliment session or the one on Philips.

and if anyone wants to sell me a NM Habiliment, I'm still looking!

Seems to be from the one with Terumasa Hino on Philips.  Much as I love the tune "Black Narcissus" -- I'd almost be even more interested in this 18-minute version of "Dancing Mist", which I only became aware of about a year or two ago (nothing more than just stumbling on this entry in Discogs; I've never heard it).  Not enough to pay $113 for it though (or even the $76 a copy sold for back in Oct 2017).  But I'd certainly go $40 on one!

https://www.discogs.com/Masabumi-Kikuchi-All-About-Dancing-Mist/release/7535147

Side 1:  Dancing Mist with Joe Henderson

  • Bass – Yoshio Suzuki
  • Drums – Hiroshi Murakami, Yoshiyuki Nakamura
  • Electric Piano – Masabumi Kikuchi
  • Sopranino Saxophone – Kohsuke Mine  (I suspect this may just be Soprano)
  • Tenor Saxophone – Joe Henderson
  • Trumpet – Terumasa Hino

BTW, the personnel matches the Henderson/Hino date on Philips exactly.

https://www.discogs.com/Joe-Henderson-And-Kikuchi-Hino-In-Concert/release/8233816

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Yeah, couldn't remember and often too lazy to look things up. I have the Philips Henderson record. It's good, but my recollection of Habiliment is that it's better... and neither have "Dancing Mist," so...

Edited by clifford_thornton

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Shame these two rare Japanese performances by and with Henderson are so impossible to get a hold of.  To recap (from above):

  • "Black Narcissus" recorded live with the same band (same date) as he album titled: In Japan (aka the album titled: Henderson's Habiliment as released in Japan, from which this tune might(?) have come (still to be confirmed, iirc).

 

  • and the side-long version of "Dancing Mist" from the Masabumi Kikuchi date above (the one with 4-5 different lengthy versions of the same tune, across 2 LP's no less) -- see my most recent post above this one for details.

About 32 minutes of material, just those 2 tunes combined (13:05 + 18:55 = 32:00 exactly, though presumably some of that is applause and such).  But easily 30 minutes worth, FWIW.

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