soulpope

Cannonball Adderley "Swingin' in Seattle: Live at the Penthouse (1966-1967)"

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If you want to make a different type of record, you could take the best solo work from both The Price You Got To Pay To Be Free and The Black Messiah and have just one hellacious Cannonball Adderley - Jazz Alto Saxophone Badass Star record. But nobody involved wanted to make that kind of record, nor am I sure that I'd have wanted them to, really. Although, that's in retrospect.

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On 10/13/2018 at 5:18 PM, Peter Friedman said:

Allen you just did an excellent job of explaining why I much preferred Cannonball's earlier playing. 

I know what you mean; with some players the stretch to "change" can be destructive and forced - I do think Cannonball came by these changes organically; he really seems to get the new music in his own way. I will add that the psychological aspect of this is that bebop was, for a lot of players, a bit of a prison; one very interesting thing we hear in some beboppers in the '60s, '70s and later is a kind of harmonic impatience; they seem to be trying to discard conventional approaches to chords like an old skin (Ammons is another very interesting example; Moody, too).  I find the resulting tension to be quite musically satisfying.

 

Edited by AllenLowe

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9 minutes ago, AllenLowe said:

I know what you mean; with some players the stretch to "change" can be destructive and forced - I do think Cannonball came by these changes organically; he really seems to get the new music in his own way. I will add that the psychological aspect of this is that bebop was, for a lot of players, a bit of a prison; one very interesting thing we hear in some beboppers in the '60s, '70s and later is a kind of harmonic impatience; they seem to be trying to discard conventional approaches to chords like an old skin (Ammons is another very interesting example; Moody, too).  I find the resulting tension to be quite musically satisfying.

 

Also, Adderley seemed to be trying to reach a different, younger audience with those later Capitol records.  That was the era of  Miles heading out to "Bitches Brew" and "Jack Johnson",, Sly and the Family Stone,  the era when Art Blakey and other  notable hard boppers couldn't get a record contract.   Album titles like "The Price You Got to Pay to Be Free" and "The Black Messiah" seem to indicate some where his head was.  

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24 minutes ago, AllenLowe said:

I know what you mean; with some players the stretch to "change" can be destructive and forced - I do think Cannonball came by these changes organically; he really seems to get the new music in his own way. I will add that the psychological aspect of this is that bebop was, for a lot of players, a bit of a prison; one very interesting thing we hear in some beboppers in the '60s, '70s and later is a kind of harmonic impatience; they seem to be trying to discard conventional approaches to chords like an old skin (Ammons is another very interesting example; Moody, too).  I find the resulting tension to be quite musically satisfying.

I agree 100%, Allen. "Harmonic impatience." Well put.

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I mean, the guy literally stood right next to Coltrane for how many gigs? How would he not hear that? And I like the fact that he took his time in figuring out what it meant to him. And increasingly as time passes, i really appreciate how he never made an entire record of just that (and with good reason, that might well have been a boring record, especially if all he had wanted to do was to show HEY, I FINALLY GO IT) but chose to incorporate it into an overall entertainment presentation. i swear, the one time I caught him live (1974? 75?) he had about the best well-rounded presentation I've seen from anybody, ever. Literally something for everybody, and all of it played with enough sincerity - and more than enough polish - to work. For everybody. Good music, real music, for everybody.

Wow, what a concept.

 

 

 

 

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I saw him in the early '60s with Yusef and Nat.  I liked him but he didn't knock me out the way some of people I saw around then did. 

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A few years ago I asked Michael Cuscuna why he never did anything with the “Live” Captitol material (the sextet with Lloyd), he said that was on his list before the bottom fell out of the business.  Besides uncovering more from the date,  he really wanted to deal with the clumsy edits on the released version. 

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On 10/15/2018 at 5:03 PM, JSngry said:

I mean, the guy literally stood right next to Coltrane for how many gigs? How would he not hear that? And I like the fact that he took his time in figuring out what it meant to him. And increasingly as time passes, i really appreciate how he never made an entire record of just that (and with good reason, that might well have been a boring record, especially if all he had wanted to do was to show HEY, I FINALLY GO IT) but chose to incorporate it into an overall entertainment presentation. i swear, the one time I caught him live (1974? 75?) he had about the best well-rounded presentation I've seen from anybody, ever. Literally something for everybody, and all of it played with enough sincerity - and more than enough polish - to work. For everybody. Good music, real music, for everybody.

Wow, what a concept.

 

 

 

 

I regret not being old enough to have heard him live. People I know with good ears — both savvy fans and musicians—tell me exactly what Jim says here re: hearing him in the late 60s and 70s: The presentation was on a super-high level, and the content was always meaty, no matter what bag he happened to be dipping into. We need more of that in jazz — and life.

Coda: The only Cannonball I don’t like is the early stuff on Emarcy; otherwise, it’s all good to me, though I have favorites — Portrait of Cannonball, Live in Europe, Black Messiah. Also, late Cannonball is seriously underrated. But if I had to take one Cannonball solo to a desert island it might be “Love for Sale” in ‘58 with Miles’ sextet. The duet with Louis Hayes on “Easy to Love” from Japan is fucking awesome too. 

Edited by Mark Stryker

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On 10/10/2018 at 11:13 AM, JSngry said:

This could be a really good record.

 

On 10/11/2018 at 0:23 PM, JSngry said:

10+ minutes of Hippodelphia has the potential to be a very good thing...

It is, and it is!

Sound is kinda lowspeed-y, but it cleans up good, As for the music, you can feel presence of real people un-self-consciously engaging with real people in a jazz way.

R-12821113-1543146208-2848.jpeg.jpg

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Started this in the car today, probably going to be in there all week. I think the words that come to mind with both sets are frisky, and one I've never really though about for this band before - limber. Makes me happy!

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It's a very good CD, IMHO. Sound quality 3/5; music 5/5.

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Yeah, now that we're getting to this level of archive (personal tapes, broadcasts, etc.), I'm happy to have lower expectations for "audio quality".

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36 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Yeah, now that we're getting to this level of archive (personal tapes, broadcasts, etc.), I'm happy to have lower expectations for "audio quality".

Same here .... btw is the bass at least audible .... ?

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In my car it was, yeah. That and cheapass earbuds are my only trials to date, but yeah, no problem there.

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8 minutes ago, JSngry said:

In my car it was, yeah. That and cheapass earbuds are my only trials to date, but yeah, no problem there.

Thnx ....

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Roy McCurdy - INSTIGATOR!

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Booker Irving Quartet???

--

My parcel (with Dolphy, Cannon and Etta) was just shipped, guess it'll be a week ... looking foward most of all to the Adderley!

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Is the sound approximately as good as the Jack Wilson live at the Penthouse? Or not as good?

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Don't have the Wilson yet, but honestly, I have minimal notice of any audio insufficiency, and absolutely zero complaints regarding same. It's just a damn good record of a damn good band on a damn good set of nights.

Not just good, damn good.

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In terms of his openness, swing, command/control of the music and of the instrument, the 1966 set might be the best Cannonball record of the 1960s. If not the best, then certainly one of the best. This guy is unfettered and untethered!

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2 hours ago, JSngry said:

In terms of his openness, swing, command/control of the music and of the instrument, the 1966 set might be the best Cannonball record of the 1960s. If not the best, then certainly one of the best. This guy is unfettered and untethered!

O.K.  You sold me.  I'm gettin' it.

. . . That particular Cannonball group with Zawinul was kick ass. ;) 

 

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yep.

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3 hours ago, JSngry said:

In terms of his openness, swing, command/control of the music and of the instrument, the 1966 set might be the best Cannonball record of the 1960s. If not the best, then certainly one of the best. This guy is unfettered and untethered!

1966-67 was the sweet spot for Cannonball in terms of balancing the focus/punchiness of his earlier work and the adventurousness/openness of his latest work

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Didn't he get dental work at some point? I know Sonny Rollins did, but I seem to recall hearing that about Cannonball as well.

But yeah, this record is one of the sweetest of the sweet spots as far as straight-up a lot playing goes.

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