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Jazz's Transition to CDs


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5 minutes ago, Big Beat Steve said:

But reel-to-reel playback devices were still FAR more numerous among home audio devices then then and for several years afterwards. Cannot find many traces for those fat, huge 8-track cartridge tapes in these catalogs, though. They really must have been a real niche thing over here.

I've heard that reel-to-reel was more popular in Europe than the US. I can say with certainty that I did not personally know anyone with a reel-to-reel deck back in my early audiophile days. It wasn't until well into college that I met a few older music fans with one. I don't even remember the last time I heard one. I seem to remember an equation back then where reel-to-reel typically = tube amplification. :)

4 minutes ago, Scott Dolan said:

Pretty sure the cartridges were the same size, Kevin. 4-track played at a higher speed for higher fidelity. 

Think of it like the difference between EP and LP on your old VCR. 

No matter - I am 100% sure that I never saw/heard one. :)

Edited by Kevin Bresnahan
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7 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Reel-to-Reel was actually considered audiophile at one point.

Oh without a doubt!! I probably couldn't afford one back then even if I wanted to. I only came close to buying one well after I was out in the working world and only because I was offered the deck with a bunch of tapes - mostly classical. I just couldn't fit the damn thing into my listening room. It was huge. I was also not a huge fan of the rewinding process.

Edited by Kevin Bresnahan
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I'm wanting to say that there was a slight difference in dimension between 4 & 8 track, that you couldn't get them to fit in the slot interchangeably. But don't quote me on that, and if it was, it was minimal.

Pretty sure that they both played at the same speed, though, 3 3/4 IPS.

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Cartridges were all but non-existent in Sweden, and probably in other Northern European countries as well. As a young boy in the late 70s, I was extremely interested in both cars and sound equipment, and I can remember exactly one car with a cartridge player (a late 60s Ford). Also, I rememeber one home with some kind of console cartridge player. Everybody else had compact cassettes at home. Almost noone I knew (of) had anything other than a plain AM/FM radio in the car at that time.

As for reel-to-reel, we had one, but not many others in our hood had.

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17 minutes ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

I've heard that reel-to-reel was more popular in Europe than the US. I can say with certainty that I did not personally know anyone with a reel-to-reel deck back in my early audiophile days. It wasn't until well into college that I met a few older music fans with one. I don't even remember the last time I heard one. I seem to remember an equation back then where reel-to-reel typically = tube amplification. :)

That's quite possible. Those reel-to-reel units were all over the place as THE home recording medium in the 50s and 60s. Not audiophile throughout, not cheap but something to save your bucks for in many circles.

I remember copying a few reel to reel radio shows from such a device onto cassette in the early 80s. No problem with a suitable adapter. But I have never owned a reel-to-reel unit myself (compared to cassettes they WERE unwieldy and fiddly and the nostalgia bug had not bitten). Which may have led me to a blunder (of sorts). When I bought a virtually complete collection of 1953-90 issues of the German JAZZ PODIUM magazine about 14-15 years ago the seller also asked me if I was interested in buying a reel-to-reel tape recording of the Stan Kenton concert in Berlin in 1953 he had made as a teenager when he attended the concert. I declined, not owning a playback unit and knowing that at least part of the concert had been released on vinyl. It may well have been a mistake, though (but i did get the program booklet of this concert along with the lot of mags ;)).

Edited by Big Beat Steve
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6 minutes ago, JSngry said:

I'm wanting to say that there was a slight difference in dimension between 4 & 8 track, that you couldn't get them to fit in the slot interchangeably. But don't quote me on that, and if it was, it was minimal.

Pretty sure that they both played at the same speed, though, 3 3/4 IPS.

That’s correct. Just found this:

The Stereo-Pak differs from Stereo 8 in its ¼" magnetic tape contains four data (music) tracks, whereas 8-tracks have twice the tracks in the same amount of space. Thus, 4-track tapes have the potential for higher audio fidelity.” 

For some reason I thought the higher fidelity came from higher tape speed. 

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1 minute ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

On without a doubt!! I probably couldn't afford one back then. I only came close to buying one well after I was out on the working world and only because I was offered the deck with a bunch of tapes. I just couldn't fit the damn thing into my listening room. It was huge. I was also not a huge fan of the rewinding process.

Sony made really good RTRs that also offered "sound on sound" recording, meaning that you could bounce tracks and overdub. They were about as big as two turntables with dust covers. I still have mine, actually. It still powers up, but the belts are old and it plays slowly. I hijacked a big lot of my old high school tapes and also bought jazz RTRs in Half-Prices (you can still find some there) just for grins, but unless and until I get the player tuned up, they're useless, and may very well be even if. Tape stretches when left untouched, especially if rewound before storing.

The whole thing's a pain in the ass from a consumer standpoint, but at the time, a 7 1/2 IPS reel of an album that was relatively virgin could top an LP. Could, mind you, not would. not even.

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3 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

Cartridges were all but non-existent in Sweden, and probably in other Northern European countries as well. As a young boy in the late 70s, I was extremely interested in both cars and sound equipment, and I can remember exactly one car with a cartridge player (a late 60s Ford). Also, I rememeber one home with some kind of console cartridge player. Everybody else had compact cassettes at home. Almost noone I knew (of) had anything other than a plain AM/FM radio in the car at that time.

As for reel-to-reel, we had one, but not many others in our hood had.

8 track car players were ubiquitous in the late 70's in New England. Nearly every one of my friend's cars had one. One of my friends had a 1972 Buick Skylark that he put one in. He got the Doors debut album stuck in it and it would only play track 4, which was the song "The End". It would ONLY play "The End". I went on a 2 and a half hour drive in that car and he kept playing it & playing it... with Morrison droning "This is the end" and all of us in the car screaming, "NO IT ISN'T!!!!!!!" :)

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2 minutes ago, Scott Dolan said:

For some reason I thought the higher fidelity came from higher tape speed. 

Correct correlation, wrong application. :)

And the commercial RTRs, they did have a higher tape speed (some played at 3 3/4, but anything that was serious played @ 7 1/2. And I think they were wider tape, too (I could be wrong about that). So, in principle, especially waaaaay back in the day, your could have a home experience that very closely mirrored what was on the master tape. Thus the audiophile appeal, especially in classical music.

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14 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Correct correlation, wrong application. :)

And the commercial RTRs, they did have a higher tape speed (some played at 3 3/4, but anything that was serious played @ 7 1/2. And I think they were wider tape, too (I could be wrong about that). So, in principle, especially waaaaay back in the day, your could have a home experience that very closely mirrored what was on the master tape. Thus the audiophile appeal, especially in classical music.

If you still own a reel-to-reel machine, you can actually get a clone of several master tapes: https://tapeproject.com/jazz/. I'd actually love to hear one or two of these master tape clones on a good setup. Maybe a nice tube amp? :D

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It seems like one vital audio format has been completely overlooked-  that is, records which came on the backs of cereal boxes!

Cereal+Records.jpg

That's where jazz really missed the boat.  They could have hooked a whole generation of kids just by putting some Horace Silver on the back of Honeycomb or Art Blakey on Alpha-Bits or Sonny Criss on Super Sugar Crisp.  Start your day with a nutritious breakfast including juice, toast, eggs, cereal and Monk.:lol:

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Oh, my player was an "all in one", meaning that it came with its own detachable speakers. You could run a line out, though. It sounded pretty good doing that when playing back gigs and rehearsals. You could also run a turntable into it, which made it a perfect companion for being on the road...every town had record shops, so there was no reason to buy them and then wait until you got home to hear them!

But hell, the machine I have is pretty close to 50 years old now. Hardly worth it, except as sentimental clutter. Of which I have no shortage....On of my kids' friends, now well into his 20s and a total digital geek (he's doing programming for Apple now) was over last year, and I mentioned reel to reel, and his eyes nearly popped out of his head when I told him I had one in my closet. He had never seen one, machine or tape, so I got it out and put a reel on, and he's looking at the technology for speed change and play transport and all this and just about shitting himself about how totally analog the whole thing was, every single part of it.

Of course, that was when I found out that the tapes and the machine were both crippled to a significant degree, but the kid couldn't care less. It was like he was in a time machine and was communing face-to-face with his ancestors. That part of it was pretty cool.

I think this is my model?

vintage-sony-tc-630-reel-to-reel-audio-r

People got them the home studios these days, that's nothing new. It's just a lot more compact and efficient technology now.

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27 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Oh, my player was an "all in one", meaning that it came with its own detachable speakers. You could run a line out, though. It sounded pretty good doing that when playing back gigs and rehearsals. You could also run a turntable into it, which made it a perfect companion for being on the road...every town had record shops, so there was no reason to buy them and then wait until you got home to hear them!

 

Do you mean you actually had the turntable in your car or that you recorded the Lps to tape and then played them back in  your car? 

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No, I had a turntable along that I ran through the tape deck's internals and played the records that way, in the room, not on the road. The speakers came with the deck,  and when it was all assembled, they formed the "cover" of the deck. Easily transportable like that, at least by 1981 standards. When you stayed in a town for a week or two, this was a really handy setup.

We travelled by van and played cassettes there.

Of course, the trunk I carried the records in was not particularly easily transportable, especially after a trip to L.A. or Chicago, or Las Vegas, anywhere that had a Tower and/or a good used store tor two, but, hey, analog reality.

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1 minute ago, Big Beat Steve said:

:D

34203007ni.jpg

A bit of a tight squeeze for LP's, though. ;)

Weren't these special LPs? I've been told that it was a miserable failure. Supposedly, the records skipped on bumps and after about 10 plays, the record was white from the tracking force needed to keep the needle in the groove.

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I don't know about this particular brand (fitted to Chryslers) but those I know of (e.g Philips AUTO-MIGNON) all played normal 45s. The pickup weight was enormous, though, to keep the record from skipping (i.e. skipping too obtrusively) with the car in motion.  A common nickname here was "record planer". :lol:

Talking about retro value, those Auto Mignons, if in good condition play relatively well and fetch insane prices among collectors. I was seriously contemplating buying one in 1983 or so to go with my 1957 car but with student funds being low this was out of reach. But the prices of that time would make it a steal today.

Edited by Big Beat Steve
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6 hours ago, Daniel A said:

Cartridges were all but non-existent in Sweden, and probably in other Northern European countries as well. As a young boy in the late 70s, I was extremely interested in both cars and sound equipment, and I can remember exactly one car with a cartridge player (a late 60s Ford). Also, I rememeber one home with some kind of console cartridge player. Everybody else had compact cassettes at home. Almost noone I knew (of) had anything other than a plain AM/FM radio in the car at that time.

As for reel-to-reel, we had one, but not many others in our hood had.

8 track cartridge players were reasonably common in cars and stereo music centres over here up to the mid 1970s (e.g in Ford Cortinas with dice and furry dashboards). The likes of Sanyo were fairly ubiquitous.

Edited by sidewinder
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My first car had an 8-track player, back in the mid-1970s. I liked it because I didn't have much money, and every discount department store in America (Woolworth's, K-Mart, etc.) had a rack of cut-out 8-track tapes for a dollar apiece. I found some amazing stuff in those racks - Wayne Shorter on Blue Note, Gil Evans' Ampex album, that Vee-Jay Young Lions album with Lee Morgan and Shorter, Jimmie Lunceford (!), a good bit of Charlie Parker....

In high school I borrowed an eight track recorder and recorded a bunch of original music as a gift to a girl. I "overdubbed" by recording piano parts, then playing them back on another 8-track player with a mic in front of a speaker as I played saxophone into the other mic. Sad to say, all that effort didn't get me anywhere with the girl. I'd like to hear that tape, though.

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I never was at all a fan of the 8-track, which was starting to die out by the time I started seriously collecting in 1978.  I was into rock music at the time and found some good deals, although I thought the sound quality was poor.  I think the only jazz 8-track I ever bought was a Nat Adderley date from the 70's.

 

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