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Opinions sought for another PD label


GA Russell

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I hope everyone had a Merry Christmas, and that Santa brought what you wanted!

There is another (apparently) European pd label that looks interesting.  I don't see a name.  Here is an example, its Cal Tjader release:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071WV6NT3/

Let me say up front that the Not Now/Real Gone releases are just too low-fi for this fan.  On the other hand, I am content with the Jasmine releases I have.

Does anyone have an opinion of the quality of this label's sound?  And by the way, what's its name?

PS - OK, I now see that the label's name is apparently Documents or maybe The Intense Media.

Edited by GA Russell
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Documents is one of the names the German label Membran has operated under (or maybe they're a subsidiary label, who knows).

The Membran and Documents output is sketchy, quality-wise. Some sets are clearly straight copies of the Chrono Classics, and, to my ears, sound fine. Other sets are sourced god-knows-where and CEDARed (or similar) to hell and back. My approach has been to avoid their releases unless I really cannot find it anywhere else.

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1 hour ago, lipi said:

My approach has been to avoid their releases unless I really cannot find it anywhere else.

That's the way I approach their releases. I've never heard one that sounded better than other reissues. Copied from other CDs and worked over a bit, that's all it seems to be. 

In the case of the Tjader box, the compilation is a bit odd, as some of the original releases already had tracks from different session thrown together.

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40 minutes ago, mikeweil said:

In the case of the Tjader box, the compilation is a bit odd, as some of the original releases already had tracks from different session thrown together.

Maybe so, but as for these "original releases", were they the FIRST-TIME releases of the tracks or were they (early) reissues of material released before (not counting the transitions from 10" to 12", of course)?

It was not rare for record labels to compile an LP from different sessions (that weren't necessarily ALL complete) for their first-time release - even in the 50s. See Pacific Jazz LPs, for example. So if the policy of this reissuer is to pack COMPLETE LPs in their original release format onto the reissue wihtout any further discographical fine-tuning (not surprising, considering this is a budget label) then this looks quite logical to me. Except that maybe some might prefer other LPs if you do not reissue them ALL in one package. So I cannot see anything odd about this, not least of all because (as we all know) other reissuers get by with reissuing just the measly contents of one single LP on one CD - and nothing else to fill out (even halfway) the remaining playing time. ;)

I think us reissue listeners/collectors ought to get away from the notion that reissues NEED to be strictly chronological all the time. There are many approches to programming a platter and each one has its benefits and drawbacks.

 

Edited by Big Beat Steve
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I've had some Membran sets, and they are pretty awful.  Definitely sub-Real Gone, about on par with Not Now.  BTW, Real Gone has sounded pretty good in recent years, they cleaned up their act from the early releases, sort of like Collectables did in the USA.

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3 minutes ago, felser said:

BTW, Real Gone has sounded pretty good in recent years, they cleaned up their act from the early releases, sort of like Collectables did in the USA.

I agree, felser.  I picked up two Real Gone CDs this year. Both of them were co-released with Dusty Groove -- Cannonball's The Price You Got to Pay to Be Free and Johnny Lytle's Soul Rebel / People & Love.  Both have excellent sonics and were very professionally done in general.  I had no idea that they were sub-par in the past, since these two CDs were the first recordings that I purchased on that label.

I also agree with you assessment of Membran. Stay away. Not good.

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2 hours ago, JSngry said:

Is this the same Membran that did those mega classical boxes a while back, the 8,000,000 CDs for 50 cents things?

How were those, anyway? I never tried them, the old if it's too good to be true then it probably isn't thing.

No idea about these but I have several of their 4-CD box sets covering specific areas of early post-war R&B (Shouters, Nasty, Boogie Woogie Goodies, Fine Brown Sugar) as well as Western Swing/Honky Tonk (Swingbillies) and then their pre-1945 German dancebands sets (that you might classify as jazz, semi-jazz and not even quite semi-jazz) that were very good for what they were. I.e. if you were able to pick them up at the prices they sold at Zweitausendeins for, for example, they were fine (I even tend to like the Charlie Parker "No Noise" set as car CD player fodder). Decent fidelity, quite well compiled. The sets mentioned above of course duplicate other reissues but have some occasional rarer stuff thrown in that wasn't that easy to buy elsewhere off the shelf at that time. I've found them handy when DJ-ing occasionally as they help you avoid having to carry around an even larger number of LPs or CDs (than you bring along anyway) that you'd spin for only one or two tracks that happen to be on these compilations too. And the German pre-war dance band sets even had a rather huge share of really obscure stuff by orchestras undocumented elswehere (not even in Horst H. Lange's discography) and to the best of my knowledge had not even been reissued by Robert Hertwig on Bob's Music.  Whoever compiled those German sets went to great lengths to proceed off the beaten tracks of the usual suspects.

Edited by Big Beat Steve
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I would like to point out that there are at least two "Real Gone" labels. The one that Dusty Groove is involved with, "Real Gone Music" is more recent and is a legitimate company that licenses titles for release and does a very good job. The other I know of is a PD label that does not license source material not release cds with great sonics.

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13 minutes ago, jazzbo said:

I would like to point out that there are at least two "Real Gone" labels. The one that Dusty Groove is involved with, "Real Gone Music" is more recent and is a legitimate company that licenses titles for release and does a very good job. The other I know of is a PD label that does not license source material not release cds with great sonics.

Didn't realize that, jazzbo. Thanks for pointing it out. :tup 

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9 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

Maybe so, but as for these "original releases", were they the FIRST-TIME releases of the tracks or were they (early) reissues of material released before (not counting the transitions from 10" to 12", of course)?

It was not rare for record labels to compile an LP from different sessions (that weren't necessarily ALL complete) for their first-time release - even in the 50s. See Pacific Jazz LPs, for example. So if the policy of this reissuer is to pack COMPLETE LPs in their original release format onto the reissue wihtout any further discographical fine-tuning (not surprising, considering this is a budget label) then this looks quite logical to me. Except that maybe some might prefer other LPs if you do not reissue them ALL in one package. So I cannot see anything odd about this, not least of all because (as we all know) other reissuers get by with reissuing just the measly contents of one single LP on one CD - and nothing else to fill out (even halfway) the remaining playing time. ;)

I think us reissue listeners/collectors ought to get away from the notion that reissues NEED to be strictly chronological all the time. There are many approches to programming a platter and each one has its benefits and drawbacks.

 

Of course I know all that, but Tjader's first period for Fantasy has some really bad examples of releases haphazardly thrown together from vault material, with incorrect personnel credits and recording dates (if they were mentioned at all). Some LPs were programmed with great care and made the albums pieces of art in themselves, others were the extreme opposite. Knowing all of Tjader's music I can say that most of it would benefit a lot from a chronological presentation with completed sessions - being well aware that session order is impossible to reconstruct as Fantasy rather soon stopped assigning master numbers and were very casual about keeping files. Duncan S. Reid and yours truly found out many details that the label obviously does not about and never cared to research properly.

It all depends, but in the case of Tjader I had to make a point. Only few of these albums deserve that term. I can name them, if you want.

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Mike, as far as I'm concerned, you're always welcome to inform us of Cal Tjader facts and trivia!

The emails I receive from oldies.com suggest that Not Now and Real Gone are two labels of the same company.  But I don't see that on the net.
https://www.discogs.com/label/419015-Real-Gone
http://www.notnowmusic.com

Real Gone Music is linked with Warner, among others.
http://www.realgonemusic.com

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11 hours ago, mikeweil said:

Of course I know all that, but Tjader's first period for Fantasy has some really bad examples of releases haphazardly thrown together from vault material, with incorrect personnel credits and recording dates (if they were mentioned at all). Some LPs were programmed with great care and made the albums pieces of art in themselves, others were the extreme opposite. Knowing all of Tjader's music I can say that most of it would benefit a lot from a chronological presentation with completed sessions - being well aware that session order is impossible to reconstruct as Fantasy rather soon stopped assigning master numbers and were very casual about keeping files. Duncan S. Reid and yours truly found out many details that the label obviously does not about and never cared to research properly.

I figured it was something like this in the case of your expert topic of Cal Tjader but I really would not expect or count on budget labels like this to go into any sort of discographical research and reprogramming (though personally I often prefer chronological reissues too).

And generally speaking (as my remark was intended) I do understand the approach of those who prefer to listen to albums the way they were originally released (including those here on the forum who have stated they burn their own CD-Rs in album release order from chronological box sets). It does make sense to ALSO experience the music the way it was originally released and try to recapture the impression those original releases made. It is not the only possible approach, of course, but it is a valid one IMO.

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6 hours ago, GA Russell said:

Mike, as far as I'm concerned, you're always welcome to inform us of Cal Tjader facts and trivia!

The emails I receive from oldies.com suggest that Not Now and Real Gone are two labels of the same company.  But I don't see that on the net.
https://www.discogs.com/label/419015-Real-Gone
http://www.notnowmusic.com

Real Gone Music is linked with Warner, among others.
http://www.realgonemusic.com

People are often confusing Real Gone (EU) and Real Gone Music (US). The former is a European public-domain label, while the latter is a US label that reissues licensed material and has nothing to do with the EU label. The people at Real Gone Music are not very happy with the "name confusion", but they can do nothing about it. This is the US label: Real Gone Music

Real Gone (EU) and NotNow are indeed linked.

Edited by J.A.W.
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3 hours ago, J.A.W. said:

People are often confusing Real Gone (EU) and Real Gone Music (US). The former is a European public-domain label, while the latter is a US label that reissues licensed material and has nothing to do with the EU label. The people at Real Gone Music are not very happy with the "name confusion", but they can do nothing about it. This is the US label: Real Gone Music

Real Gone (EU) and NotNow are indeed linked.

Couple things on that.  The PD Real Gone is now doing business as Reel to Reel.  They are pumping the same sets back out on that label with the same content and slightly modified artwork.  Believe me, they are a few steps above Not Now Music for Jazz Releases.  Real Gone/Reel to Reel gives recording year and personnel info for each jazz album in their sets, which Not Now does not do as far as I can tell,  and the sound is consistently much better on Real Gone/Reel to Reel than on Not Now.  They don't at all feel like the same company.  That being said, they are both definitely some steps below Fresh Sound and Avid Jazz.  

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