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BFT 177 reveal and discussion thread


felser

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Thanks to the few who participated, and to anyone else who may have given it a listen, and thanks to Bill and Thom for their work on coordinating and hosting/posting.  Have a safe and blessed New Years.

 

1 – Billy Parker – "Dance of the Little Children"

A nice upbeat cut from his Strata-East Album "Freedom of Speech".  Lonnie Liston Smith's little brother Donald Smith on piano and vocals, the Bridgewater brothers on the horns.

 

02 – Charles Earland – “Happy Cause I’m going home”

From his album “Intensity”.  Just a song that makes me very very joyful to hear, and it seemed like a great follow up to the first cut.

 

03-Charles Rouse – “Bitchin”

Unusual cut for the Monk stalwart, from his Strata-East album “Two is One”.

 

04– Cedar Walton/ Hank Mobley – “House on Maple Street”

From the Cobblestone album “Breakthrough”.  I love the Walton/Jones/Higgins rhythm section on this one from early 1972 (was this their first together?), and of course they went on to record many classic albums throughout the rest of the decade.

 

05 - Kings in Exile – “Bullwimp”

From the Dennis Gonzalez released album “Witness”, though he does not play on this cut (or on a lot of others on the album).  Burnett Anderson is the trumpet player here.  The tenor player is our own Jim Sangrey.  Mark Menikos plays violin and composed the cut.

 

06 - Trio Encompas – “Jetlag Blues” 

People compared that the sax player to Chico Freeman, Arthur Blythe, and David Murray, and gave this very high marks.  It is actually our own Thom Keith on tenor. 

 

07 - Elvin Jones –“Lycra Too”

From the wonderful Atlantic album “Midnight Walk” with Thad Jones, Hank Mobley, and Dollar Brand/

 

 

08 – Art Ensemble of Chicago – “Fundamental Destiny”

From the album of the same name.  It was new to me, and has become my favorite AEC album.  Don Pullen guests on piano on this album.

 

09 - Gary Bartz – “BAM”

From the marvelous “Home” album, live at the Left Banke.  Woody Shaw and Albert Dailey.  Where’s the CD?  People looking for a gem to lease and reissue, how about this one?

 

10 – Hastings Street Experience -  “Yes Lord”

From their self-titled mid-70’s album, which I love beyond all objective reason.  Wonderful  Detroit time and place vibes.   Vocals by Motown ace Kim Weston.

 

11 - Rascals – “It's Love”

From the “Groovin” album, which went top 5 pop in 1967.   Hubert Laws and Chuck Rainey guest.  This is the album where the Rascals opened up their sound, and it sits as their masterpiece.  Classic singles in “Groovin’”, “How Can I Be Sure”, “A Girl Like You”, and the earlier recorded “You Better Run”, and lots of wonderful experiments.  30 minutes of bliss.  They don’t make ‘em like this anymore (and rarely did then).  If at all interested, don’t sleep on it.

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Can't blame you Felser as I already made the same decision during the compiling of my last test this month. There just aren't that many deeply interested in participating anymore.  We also seem to have cast aside at some point in the last 14+ years the idea of commenting on the music in the absence of an actual guess. We used to give stars to the tracks, just like in DB and pithy abbreviations DKDC bloomed.

The bloom is way off the BFT's rose nowadays.

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I do not share the dark thoughts which the two of you have presented here. I have gone back and read Blindfold Tests from past years. When Big Al was the moderator, he unilaterally discontinued the Blindfold Tests about eight years ago due to his perception of a lack of interest. The members disagreed and the Tests were continued. There have been several seeming ebbs and flows of interest over the years.

It can be as simple as five members having significant new responsibilities in their lives at once, and all of a sudden the discussions seem less active. I know of some members who are temporarily not commenting as often, because of serious issues in their lives.

I think that we have had excellent Blindfold Tests all year in terms of music presented. I know that I have loved them. I think that the Blindfold Tests provide enjoyment to the members who listen.

Several members have told me in private messages that they love the music on the Blindfold Tests, but do not think that they have very insightful comments to make about the music in some months, so they just love the music privately.

We may have to adjust our thinking toward the idea that we are providing something nice and wonderful to the world, whether or not the world gives us instant loving back.

I do not think that we can expect to have the kind of discussions which took place when the BFT was first started. Way back then, there was no streaming of music. You could not listen to just about any music ever recorded on Youtube.  Even downloading of music was not nearly as common. The members received their Blindfold Tests in mailed physical CD-Rs. which made it all seem more special, especially as there was no other free way to obtain new music.

People did not have smartphones back then to distract them. It was a slower, quieter time.

But that does not mean that the Blindfold Tests have no value today. I think that they definitely do.

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14 hours ago, Hot Ptah said:

Several members have told me in private messages that they love the music on the Blindfold Tests, but do not think that they have very insightful comments to make about the music in some months, so they just love the music privately.I

It would mean a lot to the people preparing the BFT's if those people would take 30 seconds to either send an IM to the person who prepared the BFT or make a post that says "Hey, enjoyed it, thanks" or something.  From the posts, I have no way to know if anyone other than Bill, Thom, Jim and myself listened to or even noticed the BFT.  Apart from my BFT itself, the reveal should have generated some sort of discussion on cuts 5 and 6 if anyone else was paying attention.

13 hours ago, tkeith said:

Just my $.02, but I'll miss BOTH your tests if you got that route.  I also cordially invite you both to hang here in NH if you find yourself up here for a bevvy and some listening, regardless of what happens with respect to the BFT.

I'm gonna take you up on that some time!   I have a friend in Nashua we also want to visit, not sure how far that is from you.

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14 hours ago, Hot Ptah said:

But that does not mean that the Blindfold Tests have no value today. I think that they definitely do.

The value to the presenter lies in the feedback & participation and relative to the time spent preparing the tracks its severely diminishing returns at this stage.   The last couple of BFTs I have consciously decided "screw it" and just picked or deleted a track with no real consideration of tracking or interest.  This goes in, this comes out, what does it really matter hardly anyone is going to post anyway.

There was a time in the past when there was regular participation at a deep level from folks like Jim R. and Big Al, neither of whom are even around to participate (I in fact sent an email to Jim R. a couple of tests ago encouraging him to check out mine which had some guitar tracks picked for him - no response.)  I'm thrilled that Jeff C says he will check my last effort, he has always been an excellent participant, as are you, Jim S., and Thom.  Not quite the same ...

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22 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

The value to the presenter lies in the feedback & participation...

and for me, the feedback even more than the participation. If I get a few people who have really listened to the material and can speak to it specifically (and not necessarily approvingly, just specifically), that's good enough for me.

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7 hours ago, felser said:

It would mean a lot to the people preparing the BFT's if those people would take 30 seconds to either send an IM to the person who prepared the BFT or make a post that says "Hey, enjoyed it, thanks" or something.  From the posts, I have no way to know if anyone other than Bill, Thom, Jim and myself listened to or even noticed the BFT.  Apart from my BFT itself, the reveal should have generated some sort of discussion on cuts 5 and 6 if anyone else was paying attention.

I'm gonna take you up on that some time!   I have a friend in Nashua we also want to visit, not sure how far that is from you.

'Bout an hour.

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On ‎12‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 5:02 PM, felser said:

Thanks to the few who participated, and to anyone else who may have given it a listen, and thanks to Bill and Thom for their work on coordinating and hosting/posting.  Have a safe and blessed New Years.

 

 

 

1 – Billy Parker – "Dance of the Little Children"

 

A nice upbeat cut from his Strata-East Album "Freedom of Speech".  Lonnie Liston Smith's little brother Donald Smith on piano and vocals, the Bridgewater brothers on the horns.

I found this track very enjoyable.. I had never heard of Billy Parker or this album. I count on you for my annual late year hit of previously unknown to me, and very appealing, Strata-East tracks.

 

 

02 – Charles Earland – “Happy Cause I’m going home”

 

From his album “Intensity”.  Just a song that makes me very very joyful to hear, and it seemed like a great follow up to the first cut.

I have this album and played it often at one time! I forgot this song though. It is a great album.

 

 

03-Charles Rouse – “Bitchin”

 

Unusual cut for the Monk stalwart, from his Strata-East album “Two is One”.

It is an unusual cut for Charlie Rouse. I saw him live and he did not sound like this. Of course I have also heard him on a great many albums. Another previously unknown to me, Strata-East gem!

 

On ‎12‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 5:02 PM, felser said:

 

 

 

04– Cedar Walton/ Hank Mobley – “House on Maple Street”

 

From the Cobblestone album “Breakthrough”.  I love the Walton/Jones/Higgins rhythm section on this one from early 1972 (was this their first together?), and of course they went on to record many classic albums throughout the rest of the decade.

 

Another album I was not familiar with at all. I love that rhythm section too.

 

05 - Kings in Exile – “Bullwimp”

 

From the Dennis Gonzalez released album “Witness”, though he does not play on this cut (or on a lot of others on the album).  Burnett Anderson is the trumpet player here.  The tenor player is our own Jim Sangrey.  Mark Menikos plays violin and composed the cut.

 

I love this track and never heard of the album or Burnett Anderson or Mark Menikos. I really like everyone's playing. Thanks for including Jim Sangrey! Without knowing who was playing, I just thought of this as a top notch 1970s cut in a style that is immensely appealing to me, with excellent playing by everyone. .

 

06 - Trio Encompas – “Jetlag Blues” 

 

People compared that the sax player to Chico Freeman, Arthur Blythe, and David Murray, and gave this very high marks.  It is actually our own Thom Keith on tenor. 

I love this track! I absolutely did not know it was Thom Keith, and thought it was a heavyweight tenor player who I just could not quite identify. Thom, you are great! Thanks for introducing me to this and hearing Thom in a blindfold test format.

 

 

07 - Elvin Jones –“Lycra Too”

 

From the wonderful Atlantic album “Midnight Walk” with Thad Jones, Hank Mobley, and Dollar Brand/

I thought I had heard just about everything that the great Elvin Jones had recorded, but I was not familiar with this album. His playing did not sound like Elvin Jones to me, when I did not know who it was. I guess that is the beauty of a blindfold test, to surprise the listener who does not have the preconceived notions about the musicians from knowing in advance who they are.

 

 

 

 

08 – Art Ensemble of Chicago – “Fundamental Destiny”

 

From the album of the same name.  It was new to me, and has become my favorite AEC album.  Don Pullen guests on piano on this album.

I commented on this great track in the Discussion. It is a real favorite of mine. I have not played this AEC album in awhile but I will play it now again.

 

 

09 - Gary Bartz – “BAM”

 

From the marvelous “Home” album, live at the Left Banke.  Woody Shaw and Albert Dailey.  Where’s the CD?  People looking for a gem to lease and reissue, how about this one?

Oh, I agree. This should definitely be reissued on CD. I had never heard this before. I thought of it as a top level track with a very appealing edge to it.  I would love to hear the rest of the album.

 

 

10 – Hastings Street Experience -  “Yes Lord”

 

From their self-titled mid-70’s album, which I love beyond all objective reason.  Wonderful  Detroit time and place vibes.   Vocals by Motown ace Kim Weston.

 

I lived in Ann Arbor from 1978-81 but never heard of this group. There was a lot of great local music in nearby Detroit, only some of which I was able to see live at the time. I do not place Kim Weston, even after knowing it is her. I just listened to her "Take Me In My Arms" and can't match her voice there to her voice here. Nevetheless, I find this track very appealing!

 

11 - Rascals – “It's Love”

 

From the “Groovin” album, which went top 5 pop in 1967.   Hubert Laws and Chuck Rainey guest.  This is the album where the Rascals opened up their sound, and it sits as their masterpiece.  Classic singles in “Groovin’”, “How Can I Be Sure”, “A Girl Like You”, and the earlier recorded “You Better Run”, and lots of wonderful experiments.  30 minutes of bliss.  They don’t make ‘em like this anymore (and rarely did then).  If at all interested, don’t sleep on it.

I agree. The Rascals were very talented and this is a great cut.

 

Superb Blindfold Test, with just the right mixture of sheer immediate listening enjoyment, depth of interest, surprises, and Strata-East previously unknown to me. Your Blindfold Test has become a December treat tradition for me, and this may be the best one yet.

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Per the other discussion, it's also worth noting that I had encouraged Webb City to give this test a listen.  He had a rough month at work and had forgotten about it until I messaged him on a different issue.  He sent me his comments, but I'll encourage him to post them to the thread.

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I gotta tell you, that #4 track ended up cracking me up. the first few listens, I did not know what it was. It sounded "familiar" but I could not connect any dots...I do remember thinking about the tenor player, that is was the way I would have liked to play if I had the chops to play like that. But felser kept saying these weird things, like pay more attention to Track 4, and I'm like what is this motherfucker talking about? :g

And then after several days, I don't know what did it, but a dim light came on and said, oh, hey, is that ME? And then I listened some more and realized, oh yeah, that's me, listen to how raggedy the chops are, I guess I DID have the chops to play like that, too bad they weren't better, I'd have played better.

But then...what record was this? I still couldn't get that. But you know, internet has it all and soon enough ah, yes, THAT thing. "Bullwhimp" was a Mark Menikos composition that had a whole lot more to it than made the record, it was a full on, multi-sectioned take on Western/Cowboy songs that ended with the very little bit that opens the cut. That type of editing...

Anyway, it's funny how you hear playing one way when you think it's somebody else, and then a totally different way when you know it's you (or anybody else besides who you thought it was). True objectivity is a challenge, to put it mildly.

As for Mark, our paths have not crossed paths for 30 years or so now. We both played in an edition of the Beledi ensemble. He's a great player, with an intense "perfectionist" personality and here's the best bio I can find of him: http://www.brothers3.us/mark.htm

Burnett Anderson...that's a story...he was - and still is, imo - the most organic trumpeter I've ever worked with. He was a master at playing changes and playing "free", the type of guy who didn't have to change voices to change idioms. Just a wonderful player and person. He was a respected band director in the area, had a family, played all the gigs, sitting on a certain top of a certain world.

And then one day he was gone. Literally overnight, nobody's really figured out the specifics, but he literally disappeared. We found out that he ended up in California and maybe had a plan in going out there, but you talk about a mystery...

All I can find out about him now is this: http://www.nighttunes.net/NightPeople.htm

I would call him the Dupree Bolton of Texas, but he didn't have the vices that Bolton did. Something else, maybe, but at this point, irrelevant. He was a sweet guy and a beautiful player. End of story for me.

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I didn't participate - I kinda know most of John's interests aren't mine - but I always read the reveal and must have scanned so quickly  I didn't even notice Jim and Thom made it on to this test. Must at least check out those two tracks (and I'm kicking myself for missing the opportunity to ID the two Mobley tracks. I'd hope I'd have gotten those.

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8 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

I didn't participate - I kinda know most of John's interests aren't mine - but I always read the reveal and must have scanned so quickly  I didn't even notice Jim and Thom made it on to this test. Must at least check out those two tracks (and I'm kicking myself for missing the opportunity to ID the two Mobley tracks. I'd hope I'd have gotten those.

No doubt in my mind you've have nailed The House On Maple Street.

8 hours ago, JSngry said:

I gotta tell you, that #4 track ended up cracking me up. the first few listens, I did not know what it was. It sounded "familiar" but I could not connect any dots...I do remember thinking about the tenor player, that is was the way I would have liked to play if I had the chops to play like that. But felser kept saying these weird things, like pay more attention to Track 4, and I'm like what is this motherfucker talking about? :g

And then after several days, I don't know what did it, but a dim light came on and said, oh, hey, is that ME? And then I listened some more and realized, oh yeah, that's me, listen to how raggedy the chops are, I guess I DID have the chops to play like that, too bad they weren't better, I'd have played better.

But then...what record was this? I still couldn't get that. But you know, internet has it all and soon enough ah, yes, THAT thing. "Bullwhimp" was a Mark Menikos composition that had a whole lot more to it than made the record, it was a full on, multi-sectioned take on Western/Cowboy songs that ended with the very little bit that opens the cut. That type of editing...

Anyway, it's funny how you hear playing one way when you think it's somebody else, and then a totally different way when you know it's you (or anybody else besides who you thought it was). True objectivity is a challenge, to put it mildly.

As for Mark, our paths have not crossed paths for 30 years or so now. We both played in an edition of the Beledi ensemble. He's a great player, with an intense "perfectionist" personality and here's the best bio I can find of him: http://www.brothers3.us/mark.htm

Burnett Anderson...that's a story...he was - and still is, imo - the most organic trumpeter I've ever worked with. He was a master at playing changes and playing "free", the type of guy who didn't have to change voices to change idioms. Just a wonderful player and person. He was a respected band director in the area, had a family, played all the gigs, sitting on a certain top of a certain world.

And then one day he was gone. Literally overnight, nobody's really figured out the specifics, but he literally disappeared. We found out that he ended up in California and maybe had a plan in going out there, but you talk about a mystery...

All I can find out about him now is this: http://www.nighttunes.net/NightPeople.htm

I would call him the Dupree Bolton of Texas, but he didn't have the vices that Bolton did. Something else, maybe, but at this point, irrelevant. He was a sweet guy and a beautiful player. End of story for me.

Awesome story!  I feel like there is no much I need to learn about all the people who participate here.  Gotta figure out this retirement plan so I can get TO that!

 

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11 hours ago, JSngry said:

I gotta tell you, that #4 track ended up cracking me up. the first few listens, I did not know what it was. It sounded "familiar" but I could not connect any dots...I do remember thinking about the tenor player, that is was the way I would have liked to play if I had the chops to play like that. But felser kept saying these weird things, like pay more attention to Track 4, and I'm like what is this motherfucker talking about? :g

And then after several days, I don't know what did it, but a dim light came on and said, oh, hey, is that ME? And then I listened some more and realized, oh yeah, that's me, listen to how raggedy the chops are, I guess I DID have the chops to play like that, too bad they weren't better, I'd have played better.

But then...what record was this? I still couldn't get that. But you know, internet has it all and soon enough ah, yes, THAT thing. "Bullwhimp" was a Mark Menikos composition that had a whole lot more to it than made the record, it was a full on, multi-sectioned take on Western/Cowboy songs that ended with the very little bit that opens the cut. That type of editing...

Anyway, it's funny how you hear playing one way when you think it's somebody else, and then a totally different way when you know it's you (or anybody else besides who you thought it was). True objectivity is a challenge, to put it mildly.

As for Mark, our paths have not crossed paths for 30 years or so now. We both played in an edition of the Beledi ensemble. He's a great player, with an intense "perfectionist" personality and here's the best bio I can find of him: http://www.brothers3.us/mark.htm

Burnett Anderson...that's a story...he was - and still is, imo - the most organic trumpeter I've ever worked with. He was a master at playing changes and playing "free", the type of guy who didn't have to change voices to change idioms. Just a wonderful player and person. He was a respected band director in the area, had a family, played all the gigs, sitting on a certain top of a certain world.

And then one day he was gone. Literally overnight, nobody's really figured out the specifics, but he literally disappeared. We found out that he ended up in California and maybe had a plan in going out there, but you talk about a mystery...

All I can find out about him now is this: http://www.nighttunes.net/NightPeople.htm

I would call him the Dupree Bolton of Texas, but he didn't have the vices that Bolton did. Something else, maybe, but at this point, irrelevant. He was a sweet guy and a beautiful player. End of story for me.

That is an amazing story about Burnett Anderson!

That is so interesting that you did not recognize your own playing at first.

Edited by Hot Ptah
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