miles65

New Hank Mobley Blue Note Set

156 posts in this topic

Although most of this material was issued on CD at one time or another in the '80s or '90s, all of this music is out of print.

This gives me pause...not for myself, but just thinking that those original CDs are 20+ years old. This new set might be the last/best chance to get them for going forth.

As the response here shows, us old guys already have them. So the market should be for the not so old guys. But will they be interested? Let's hope so. Dippin' should be allowed to live forever.

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I am very surprised, no astonished, to hear about this, in the context of Mosaic apparently fizzling out. Who needs a Mobley set?? If ever there was a player whose output was well issued, ...

A much better idea would be a 1950s Savoy set. Or something else other than this.

However, I hope that this set sells well for them, though. They know more about the business than I.

Mjzee, I have the Blue Note Works CD of "Dippin' " and it sounds fine. By the time they did a later, U.S., version, there was a tape flaw that is not heard on the BNW CD - the tapes having aged more since then.

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8 minutes ago, Shrdlu said:

 

Mjzee, I have the Blue Note Works CD of "Dippin' " and it sounds fine. By the time they did a later, U.S., version, there was a tape flaw that is not heard on the BNW CD - the tapes having aged more since then.

Which brings up another reason to question the assertion of best sound ever due to improved converters, blah blah blah. These tapes have been used, some many times, since those 15-25 year old remasters came out. Who says there aren't  other new tape flaws from SHM, SACD or over-priced vinyl transfers?

I'll admit its surprising to think that all of these are OOP in all different forms though.  Ultimately for this music to live BN is going to have to go the download route for the whole catalog.  I don't see a lot of younger people grabbing such a large box set when they are more or less conditioned to expect it in a different form and mostly free.

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54 minutes ago, Brad said:

Although I initially intended to pre-order this set, I'm heading to the fence as I have all the individual CDs and I'm not sure I need another box set, not to mention that I tend to listen to his earlier work more than later recordings. 

I only have about 3 of the individual CDs, but that's because I listen to the earlier work more often. Still likely to preorder -  I just have to consider how often I'll listen to albums like A Caddy for Daddy, and also do an "arbitrage calculation" of how much it'd cost to amass the constituent CDs I lack. The "remastering" hype doesn't grab me.

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In my brief experience of seller, I tend to think that new vinyl box sets sell more then cd, I mean I sold much more vinyls then cd box sets, I basically sold all my 45rpm BN reissues in three months, so it appears that high quality vinyl  BN reissues are still hot in the market.

Obviously the Mosaic crew has a view better then mine, considering they staying in the market for so long.

Edited by porcy62

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I said I was glad this set was coming out, and I am (even if I already have all of it on CD already, every last take).  And I guess I was primarily glad that others might get to hear this material again, since this is probably my favorite era of Hank's output (or much of it anyway).

And maybe I shouldn't be a nattering nabob (and I'm hesitating posting this), but it's really hard not to see an obvious cost comparison between a set like this -- 8 CDs for $136.00 (or $17 per disc) from Mosaic -- vs. the cost/value of something like the recent (and legit!! - aren't these particular ones legit??) "5 original albums" series of Blue Note artists...

This Lee Morgan "5 original albums" set is only $18.22 for 5 CD's (or $3.64 per disc).

https://www.amazon.com/5-Original-Albums-CD/dp/B07C8Q5873

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Dpopular&field-keywords=5+Original+Albums+blue+note&rh=n%3A5174%2Ck%3A5+Original+Albums+blue+note

Or perhaps more fairly, if you want to acknowledge that this new Mobley set isn't just 8 CD's -- but rather 12 full albums, then $136 comes out to $11.33 per album (spread over 8 discs, at $17 per disc).

Never the less, even using the "per album" metric, the Mosaic is *still* fully 3X as expensive (or 7.4X as expensive, in terms of the # of CD's).

New transfers, I know.  New liners too.  And that other cheapo set is just 'repressings' of existing masters (not 'pressings' I realize, but you get my point), and probably no liners at all.

Still, I'd reckon someone would have to REALLY be on-board with Mosaic already (multiple past purchasing experiences) before getting this new Mobley set.  Not trying to second guess them -- I'm sure they'll sell enough to merit doing the set.  Just some observations.  FWIW, I was very much on the fence about buying the Bee Hive box, since 2/3rds of it didn't look quite like my cup of tea (on paper), but I **DID** buy a copy of the Bee Hive (as a show of support for all their efforts), and I'm quite happy with it.

 

But I guess I'm saying on second thought, I'm even more surprised at this new Mobley set, given the proliferation of MUCH less expensive multi-disc sets of similar material that have hit the market in recent years.

 

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6 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:

I said I was glad this set was coming out, and I am (even if I already have all of it on CD already, every last take).  And I guess I was primarily glad that others might get to hear this material again, since this is probably my favorite era of Hank's output (or much of it anyway).

And maybe I shouldn't be a nattering nabob (and I'm hesitating posting this), but it's really hard not to see an obvious cost comparison between a set like this -- 8 CDs for $136.00 (or $17 per disc) from Mosaic -- vs. the cost/value of something like the recent (and legit!! - aren't these particular ones legit??) "5 original albums" series of Blue Note artists...

This Lee Morgan "5 original albums" set is only $18.22 for 5 CD's (or $3.64 per disc).

https://www.amazon.com/5-Original-Albums-CD/dp/B07C8Q5873

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Dpopular&field-keywords=5+Original+Albums+blue+note&rh=n%3A5174%2Ck%3A5+Original+Albums+blue+note

Or perhaps more fairly, if you want to acknowledge that this new Mobley set isn't just 8 CD's -- but rather 12 full albums, then $136 comes out to $11.33 per album (spread over 8 discs, at $17 per disc).

Never the less, even using the "per album" metric, the Mosaic is *still* fully 3X as expensive (or 7.4X as expensive, in terms of the # of CD's).

New transfers, I know.  New liners too.  And that other cheapo set is just 'repressings' of existing masters (not 'pressings' I realize, but you get my point), and probably no liners at all.

Still, I'd reckon someone would have to REALLY be on-board with Mosaic already (multiple past purchasing experiences) before getting this new Mobley set.  Not trying to second guess them -- I'm sure they'll sell enough to merit doing the set.  Just some observations.  FWIW, I was very much on the fence about buying the Bee Hive box, since 2/3rds of it didn't look quite like my cup of tea (on paper), but I **DID** buy a copy of the Bee Hive (as a show of support for all their efforts), and I'm quite happy with it.

 

But I guess I'm saying on second thought, I'm even more surprised at this new Mobley set, given the proliferation of MUCH less expensive multi-disc sets of similar material that have hit the market in recent years.

 

Rooster, remember our discussion about the Woody Shaw Muse set and willingness to pay for respectful presentation of important material.  If you really really love Blue Note and have the means, you don't want those cheapo five CD sets.  If you're just liking/interested, that is the way to go.  I own dozens of those sets for rock/soul/fusion stuff, like J.Geils Band, Roberta Flack, Passport, Jean-Luc Ponty etc.  Woody Shaw or classic Blue Note, I want something nicer.

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7 minutes ago, felser said:

Rooster, remember our discussion about the Woody Shaw Muse set and willingness to pay for respectful presentation of important material.  If you really really love Blue Note and have the means, you don't want those cheapo five CD sets.  If you're just liking/interested, that is the way to go.  I own dozens of those sets for rock/soul/fusion stuff, like J.Geils Band, Roberta Flack, Passport, Jean-Luc Ponty etc.  Woody Shaw or classic Blue Note, I want something nicer.

'Tis true.  I bought that Woody Shaw Muse set without a single moment's hesitation, and was head-over-heals about it when it was first announced.  You're right.

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This is a bitter sweet announcement.  On the one hand, I have all of this material on individual discs;on the other hand, I am glad for any new Mosaic Box and will pre-order this one without fail.  It was the classic '60 and '61 records coupled with the earlier Mosaic Mobley set that got me interested in these later sessions to begin with.  

The value of this set for me is contextualization and, as it was so well put above, "the respectful presentation" of the material.  Strangely, I was in a similar position with the Ellington 1932-1940 Brunswick, Columbia, and Master Recordings-that is to say, I had all of it spread over various discs.  Nevertheless, the Ellington set became one of my all time favorites despite my lack of initial enthusiasm.

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I'm thinking the message here is that if you want this material on CD, get it now, here, because things are changing and they're not coming back.

How big an edition is 2500, anyway? Relative to other sets.

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What would be good is if they release the material all in recorded order, rather than the piece meal way Blue Note did on several releases, like "No Room for Squares" and "The Turnaround". Were there others like that? Well, yes, "Straight, No Filter" which as a late issue was more understandable.

Ok, I checked it out, looks like they're doing that. Good. 

 

Edited by John Tapscott

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17 minutes ago, John Tapscott said:

What would be good is if they release the material all in recorded order, rather than the piece meal way Blue Note did on several releases, like "No Room for Squares" and "The Turnaround". Were there others like that? Well, yes, "Straight, No Filter" which as a late issue was more understandable.

Ok, I checked it out, looks like they're doing that. Good. 

Definitely!!  All these years, I still have and kept my 1989 McMaster CD edition of "No Room For Squares" -- because those McMaster issues of the 3 or 4 Mobley's that originally split sessions -- those late 80's McMasters were released by session (instead of as they originally came out on LP).

The best way to experience those sessions, is grouped by session -- far as I'm concerned. That 1989 edition of "No Room For Squares" especially, being one of Andrew Hill's rare sideman appearances.

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41 minutes ago, John Tapscott said:

What would be good is if they release the material all in recorded order, rather than the piece meal way Blue Note did on several releases, like "No Room for Squares" and "The Turnaround". Were there others like that? Well, yes, "Straight, No Filter" which as a late issue was more understandable.

Ok, I checked it out, looks like they're doing that. Good. 

 

They actually released those titles twice on CD in the USA, original McMasters and RVG's.  One had the original albums (RVG) the other had sessions isolated (McMaster). 

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4 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

 

I do notice this, they are really pushing the "this is the greatest sound ever on CD" angle:

With all the developments in recent years with analogue to digital converters and hi-res transfers that bring the CD to almost the same quality as analogue LPs, we have returned to the original analogue tapes of these Mobley master tapes in order to make them available like never before. 
 

"Almost the same quality"? This is not what I was told when I went digital all those years ago. Now we've circled back to LPs are the greatest but CDs can just about match them?

 

Yes, this is quite misleading, not to mention inaccurate. I love playing my records, I love hunting for records, but they ain't the ultimate in sound reproduction.

Now if instead of the analogue LPs they wrote master tape , I'd be more agreeable.

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16 minutes ago, Dmitry said:

Yes, this is quite misleading, not to mention inaccurate. I love playing my records, I love hunting for records, but they ain't the ultimate in sound reproduction.

Now if instead of the analogue LPs they wrote master tape , I'd be more agreeable.

Maybe these CDs will be needle drops of original LPs? :) :) :)

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2 minutes ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

Maybe these CDs will be needle drops of original LPs? :) :) :)

Clever  you!:tup I didn't think of that.

BTW, Ron Carter is at the Regattabar this weekend. I've got my ticket for the Sat. 1st set.

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4 minutes ago, Dmitry said:

Clever  you!:tup I didn't think of that.

BTW, Ron Carter is at the Regattabar this weekend. I've got my ticket for the Sat. 1st set.

Dam... I'll miss you this trip. I'll be in California. My wife & I have an early Saturday flight to LA and we'll be driving up the coast to Oakland. We're spending several days up in Napa & Sonoma. Make sure to let me know when you'll be up again and we can get together.

Edited by Kevin Bresnahan

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I wonder if part of the deal/funding model behind this set was for Capitol to also make it available for paid HD Masters streaming/download? That was the approach applied for Rendell/Carr and I wouldn’t be surprised to see it used here.

1 hour ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

Maybe these CDs will be needle drops of original LPs? :) :) :)

 Now you’re talking..:D

2 hours ago, Jim Duckworth said:

The value of this set for me is contextualization and, as it was so well put above, "the respectful presentation" of the material.

That’s the way I broadly see it too.

Edited by sidewinder

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It is a changing world.  I got really hip to Hank relatively late in the span of my jazz passion, but I have to say there's so much good stuff--and the vast majority is on Blue Note (one should also factor in his work in Blakey's Jazz Messengers).  I've been able to collect a lot through libraries, downloading services, and one of those "8 classic albums" sets (4 CDs).  I can see where finding deluxe or decent Blue Note editions is valued by a certain core.  But how large is such an audience?

  

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1 hour ago, Milestones said:

It is a changing world.  I got really hip to Hank relatively late in the span of my jazz passion, but I have to say there's so much good stuff--and the vast majority is on Blue Note (one should also factor in his work in Blakey's Jazz Messengers).  I've been able to collect a lot through libraries, downloading services, and one of those "8 classic albums" sets (4 CDs).  I can see where finding deluxe or decent Blue Note editions is valued by a certain core.  But how large is such an audience?

  

Well, Mosaic is betting it is at least 2500.

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8 hours ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

Dam... I'll miss you this trip. I'll be in California. My wife & I have an early Saturday flight to LA and we'll be driving up the coast to Oakland. We're spending several days up in Napa & Sonoma. Make sure to let me know when you'll be up again and we can get together.

This'll be a great trip for you. I recommend a stop and a tour of the Hearst Castle in San Simeon. Breathtaking. 

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I would have sworn up and down that I owned Dippin', but I certainly can't find it on the shelves right now.  Not really in the market for this set, as I should have all the other sessions, but I do hope it sells well.  (In the meantime, I'll have to see if I stumble across Dippin'.)

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I was in on the CD reissue rush back in the 90s. They came out thick and fast. In many cases, the CDs only got played once and then parked on the shelf.

Recently, I decided to go through some of them, including the Mobley albums. I recommend "Dippin' " and "Hi Voltage".

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That's how it should be titled!

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