scooter_phx

Trying to help out Mosaic by suggesting sets

431 posts in this topic

Can't see the video here at work, but I figure it's either Crystal Blue Persuasion or Crimson & Clover?

I used to laugh at "I Think We're Alone Now" until I hear the Rubinoos cover of it way back when. That kind of thing...nicer than a casual listen might suggest to a casual listener/spectator.

Tommy James & The Shondells sold them some records, now.

or Sweet Cherry Wine?

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2 hours ago, jazzbo said:

Warner Japan has released nearly every Basie album in their 24 bit reissue program of a few years ago. They sound fantastic. Not all the material that was in the two Mosaic sets (but also material that was not) and the sound is even better.

That's right. I've never been able to get my head round Japanese imports, though. They always seem so expensive.

2 hours ago, JSngry said:

Roulette had some big R&R hit catalogues, fwiw. Maybe that factored into the forced(?) sale? Or not?

 

I think it was simply that Universal got the American part of EMI (plus the Beatles) and Warner got the UK part (which included Roulette -- remember that Cuscuna found the Roost and Roulette masters in EMI's London archives?)

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Well, you can't talk about Roulette without talking about Morris Levy, so god only knows how and/or why that all went down..

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38 minutes ago, crisp said:

That's right. I've never been able to get my head round Japanese imports, though. They always seem so expensive.

I've been using cdjapan.co.jp pretty much exclusively for Japanese pressings the last seven or eight years. And buying more Japanese cds than from any other nationality. I find cdjapan reliable, fast, and not overly expensive especially considering the "reward points" system.

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1 hour ago, crisp said:

That's right. I've never been able to get my head round Japanese imports, though. They always seem so expensive.

I think it was simply that Universal got the American part of EMI (plus the Beatles) and Warner got the UK part (which included Roulette -- remember that Cuscuna found the Roost and Roulette masters in EMI's London archives?)

Yes, which resulted in some cases with multiple box sets using some of the same material, really nice ones from EMI and really crappy "Original Album Series" sets from Warner.

Image result for ufo emi box set

Image result for ufo original album series

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1 hour ago, jazzbo said:

I've been using cdjapan.co.jp ... and not overly expensive especially considering the "reward points" system.

I've ordered 3-4 times from cdjapan ($200+ per order, so not tiny orders) -- and although I never did the math -- I was always under the (mistaken?) impression that their "reward points" system didn't seem to amount to all that much credit (or discount, or however it worked).  I have to confess to not having studied it closely, though.  It is actually a better deal than I realized?  I seemed like less than 10% off (maybe closer to 6% off?) -- or something like that.

Whatever I came up with (mistakenly?), it wasn't enough to motivate me to take advantage of.  Though admittedly I've only ordered from them about once every 15-18 months.

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4 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:

I've ordered 3-4 times from cdjapan ($200+ per order, so not tiny orders) -- and although I never did the math -- I was always under the (mistaken?) impression that their "reward points" system didn't seem to amount to all that much credit (or discount, or however it worked).  I have to confess to not having studied it closely, though.  It is actually a better deal than I realized?  I seemed like less than 10% off (maybe closer to 6% off?) -- or something like that.

Whatever I came up with (mistakenly?), it wasn't enough to motivate me to take advantage of.  Though admittedly I've only ordered from them about once every 15-18 months.

I think it's bascially 3% + birthday and anniversary points.   They are really good pricewise for Japanese reissues, definitely worth it even with the shipping charges if you order enough.  I'm usually somewhere around $120-$200 per order with them, once or twice a year based on reissue schedules.  As we all know, you need to jump on those Japanese reissues as pre-release items, or they may sell out and not be seen again for years.

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33 minutes ago, felser said:

I think it's bascially 3% + birthday and anniversary points.   

There's also I believe additional points given quarterly if enough is purchased in that period, I've generally qualified. What it generally amounts to for me is that every third order or so a good chunk of the postage is chopped off. I'm very happy with both the discs from Japan and CDJapan and have been busily replacing US discs with Japanese ones. I can hear the difference in my system often as improvement, and I often prefer the presentation. Ends up being cheaper than buying from DG or amazon etc. if you buy more than a few now and then.

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Thanks for the tip, although it looks like they are oop. Any idea of a rough shipping cost to the UK?

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Posted (edited)

14 minutes ago, crisp said:

Thanks for the tip, although it looks like they are oop. Any idea of a rough shipping cost to the UK?

Yes, it appears that they have gone OOP quite recently. Snoozing is losing in the Japanese cd market (I actually pre-ordered them all and received them on release). They will likely re-appear, that is the usual process. 

As for shipping. . . I don't have them shipped from CDJapan to the UK so I can't even guess. My advice would be to add a few items to the cart and see what your price choices are with the different methods--that seems to be what CDJapan recommends:

http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/guide/help/ordering/how_to_calculate_shipping_charge

 

Edited by jazzbo

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Posted (edited)

I occasionally order from CDJapan, who are indeed excellent. I always try to keep the value under 22 euros, otherwise I'd have to pay tax (21% in the Netherlands) plus a hefty handling charge, which would make the CDs very expensive.

Edited by J.A.W.

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Thanks. Yes, VAT is a big disincentive here too. 20% on anything over £15 plus an £8 "handling fee" from Royal Mail.

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On 5/8/2019 at 4:10 AM, crisp said:

So in theory Warner could reissue two of the rarest Mosaic sets, the Basie Studio Roulette and the Maynard Ferguson Roulette. If only they would.

20 hours ago, David Ayers said:

Or even just release them for downloading and streaming.

You can already download them, if you're cool with torrenting.

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Couldn't find the specific post, but there was some mention about the absence of Jack McVea from an upcoming Mosaic set, and then how Fresh Sounds (though actually Blue Moon) had 4 CDs worth of Jack McVea, but one was already OOP.  At any rate, I did some comparison to the Jack McVea available on iTunes -- there are a couple of JSP compilations - Jump Jack and Groovin' Boogie and they cover these 4 CDs entirely (with a few spare Sammy Yates and Charlie Whitfield tracks dropped).  I presume JSP has borrowed Blue Moon's work (since the music on the BM series is in a more logical order), though it could be the other way around. 

At any rate, the music is fun and I'd probably classify it as jazz in my book.  That doesn't mean I would want to pay for it at current Mosaic prices.  At any rate, I'm sure I wouldn't even have been aware of McVea without this thread...  ;)

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On 5/3/2019 at 10:15 AM, Big Beat Steve said:

Did I say anything anywhere about lifting somebody else's work (what DEFINITE proof do YOU have of how many cases, BTW?) is RESEARCH? What I DID say was that if they did use somebody else's remastering then this is equivalent to a generics producer using the someone else's research work (where most of the initial development expenses occur). So do some careful reading (and comprehending) in your mother language, please, watch your tongue and stop accusing others of things they never said.

As for who pays whom, the slippery slope is elsewhere as I'd guess you know if you'd be  honest with yourself. Just for comparison, ONE point about the Japanese reissue labels so often praised in one sweeping gneralization that has been made before (and I'll gladly make it again because you have been remarkably evasive about this before) - how come reissue series such the CDs by VMG Salsoul of a couple of years ago carry a fine print on their back page that CLEARLY says "Not for sale outside of Japan"? Can you give me any other PROVEN reason for this than that whatever license they may have paid only covers domestic marketing in Japan but not worldwide marketing (As this would no doubt have required higher fees)? YET these things are being marketed everywhere and US buyers in particular have been falling all over themselves in snapping up whatever Japanese reissues came from there (remember the endless lists here?) and touting them as the godsend if there ever was one. Admittedly buying from Japan has always been much more of a pain in the ass from over here (including price-wise) than it may have been in the US so this is where some convenience aspect comes in but calling this laziness or coming on with some snobbish "too poor" accusation is just a load of nonsense. If you want to whine about laziness then go and tackle those out there (including many forumists) who cannot be interested enough in pre-hard bop period stuff (because hard bop and later stuff takes up all their full-price money, it seems) to pay for what you may call the "real thing" and go for cheapo Proper box sets instead.
In short, lots of double standards over THERE wherever you look.
And now, as for "how often do you NOT get a FS product ...", taking just one instance that comes to mind, go and find me some other pre-FS CD reissue of the Vinnie Riccitelli Westchester Workshop platter if you will, please. And then go on and check the FS subsidiary Blue Moon catalog and see how often you draw a blank there.

 

Steve, the weakness of your initial argument, "What I DID say was that if they did use somebody else's remastering then this is equivalent to a generics producer using the someone else's research work" is that everybody is using somebody else's mastering; the label is using the mastering done by someone who recorded it, the reissue blues and country label is using the mastering done by somebody in a hotel or recording studio 80 years ago; ESP just put out my stuff, and they used my mastering, though I in in turn used other people's mastering when recordings were done in other studios. 

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1 hour ago, AllenLowe said:

the label is using the mastering done by someone who recorded it 

The point of argument was over costs and ownership. If Victor recorded Joe Blow's Orchestra in 1933 then Victor owns the master. If Sony bought RCA-Victor, now Sony owns the master. If a PD label rips the Joe Blow Orchestra's recordings from a RCA/Sony CD and sells them as its own, PD label hasn't paid anything to record, transfer, master, or legally acquire ownership of that material.

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At the end of the line, "Everybody's happy... that's the way she stands... just as long as the money changes hands."

from B'way musical 'Tenderloin'

 

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Posted (edited)

do we really think we owe RCA/Sony for a 90 year old recording that they are sitting on? Does Joe Blow's family get anything? My impression is that the PD label is only obligated to pay publishing. 

14 minutes ago, Captain Howdy said:

The point of argument was over costs and ownership. If Victor recorded Joe Blow's Orchestra in 1933 then Victor owns the master. If Sony bought RCA-Victor, now Sony owns the master. If a PD label rips the Joe Blow Orchestra's recordings from a RCA/Sony CD and sells them as its own, PD label hasn't paid anything to record, transfer, master, or legally acquire ownership of that material.

 

Edited by AllenLowe

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1 minute ago, AllenLowe said:

do you really thing we owe RCA/Sony for a 90 year old recording that they are sitting on? Does Joe Blow's family get anything? My impression is that the PD label is only obligated to pay publishing.

No. In my mind the real point of this PD debate is over remastering. If a PD label steals from, say, a 30-year old OOP CD who cares? But if someone invests the time and money to remaster the original recordings and then a PD label swoops in, steals the remastered material, and sells it for pennies on the dollar, further remastering is discouraged. 

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yeah, but....it depends on what kind of remastering. That can mean a lot things, direct transfers, tape transfers, disc transfers, restorations, etc.

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7 minutes ago, AllenLowe said:

yeah, but....it depends on what kind of remastering. That can mean a lot things, direct transfers, tape transfers, disc transfers, restorations, etc.

Obviously I'm presuming the remastering is an improvement on previously available material. I'm most interested in pre-post-war jazz (is there a better term for that?) so I'm thinking about transfers from metal or 78s. But even remasters from tape can sometimes be a big improvement. 

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well, I understand, but as someone who has done a fair amount of mastering and had it 'borrowed,' it kinda goes with the territory.

 

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On 3/14/2019 at 7:47 AM, miles65 said:

Savoy  swing combo’s.

 

Thanks for suggesting this:  I usually associate Savoy with Bebop,but an examination of 1944 sessions alone takes in a lot of excellent small band swing from Lester, Hawk, Bobby Hackett, Emmett Berry, Pete Brown, Don Byas, Hot Lips Page, Frank Newton, Clyde Hart and a host of others.  

Now I'm trying to piece my own Savoy Swing Combos set.

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The LP reissues of the 70s/80s covered a big buttload of that stuff, and covered it very well. Not sure if they were all-inclusive, though, kinda doubt it. But if you're looking to build your own, hey, there it is.

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