scooter_phx

Trying to help out Mosaic by suggesting sets

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Maybe Mosaic need to do a Parker Savoy set. Fill the gap in their Savoy set. 

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I really wish that Mosaic had an appetite for other forms of African-American-rooted musics besides jazzes. There is SO much Gospel music deserving of a well-collated/documented treatment such as Mosaic's, and you cannot underestimate the direct, fundamental connection between that music and so much of jazz.

Not the first time I've made this plea, probably won't be the last. But if it won't be Mosaic, at least use their connection-juice to get somebody like Opal Nations set up with the resources to do it right.

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On 24/06/2019 at 3:18 PM, David Ayers said:

Maybe Mosaic need to do a Parker Savoy set. Fill the gap in their Savoy set. 

I’m standing by my story. It would sell. 

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Mosaic's probably not the outfit to do it, but if somebody could collate ALL of the Boyd Raeburn airshots and such that seem to exist and present them in complete form, in chronological order with properly documented personnel, I could be interested...those charts are widly variable in quality (to put it mildly...) but the bands themselves...whoa, sometimes/often.

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What Mosaic is the outfit to do: tidy projects literally handed to them with all necessary clearances provided.

At this point, it's a delusion they'll be busting ass to secure a myriad of permissions and rights from record labels and estates.  

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17 hours ago, JSngry said:

Mosaic's probably not the outfit to do it, but if somebody could collate ALL of the Boyd Raeburn airshots and such that seem to exist and present them in complete form, in chronological order with properly documented personnel, I could be interested...those charts are widly variable in quality (to put it mildly...) but the bands themselves...whoa, sometimes/often.

I like that idea--but I guess on the nuttiness-scale it ranks along with the Complete Babs Gonzalez Sessions set?

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Posted (edited)

I have a lot of Raeburn airshots on LP, and since there are many tunes on parctically every set it would be too much of a good thing, I'm afraid. AFAIK that would keep Mosiac from doing such a project. Plus, it is a whole lot of material, and much of it available on HEP.

The Gonzales would be wild, I'd go for it - but they would have a hard time finding some of the very rare singles issues. Licensing could be a problem too (too many labels) - and what to do with the many tracks made on sessions by other people? 

They'd have to throw in reprints of his autobiography to make it a hipster's dream.

Edited by mikeweil

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1 hour ago, mikeweil said:

 Plus, it is a whole lot of material, and much of it available on HEP.

Yeah, that was what I thought when I started looking, but of the three HEP CDs, only one contains actual airshots - live, commercial radio airshots. The other two are either transcriptions or Jubilee broadcasts. The Circle CDs are all (or mostly) transcriptions as well).

Now, Hep LPs, that's another story. But even at that, there appears to be a pretty good cache of broadcasts, either from the few hotel gigs the band had, or from the AFRN "One Night Stand" series that I'm finding myself combing the greasy hair of the internet in search of what's come out on those off-brand "collector's" LPs of the late-70s/early-80s. And I gotta think there's more than those (airshots) that exist (or have existed).

Repetition of repertoire, yes, some, but I keep finding vocal charts that only show up once or twice, and the instrumentals are never played exactly the same way twice. Factor in the schizophrenic nature of the book as it changed "star arrangers" over the years, and it's quite a varied output for the listener who is not put off by set lists having recurring titles.

What I REALLY want to hear, though, if they exist, is the band of 1942-43, when Raeburn first decided to go "modern", and had Budd Johnson & Jerry Valentine write the book (to what degree, I can't tell). This would be kind of a "missing link" between the Earl Hines and Billy Eckstine orchestras, and oh, just how did Boyd Raeburn & Dizzy Gillespie hook up anyway, not why, but how? Budd Johnson, maybe?

It's a bit of a scholarly project, of course, and the Mosaic of today is not showing any kind of an appetite for anything like it. But jeez, I'd like to see it done, if for no other reason so as to fill in the blanks as to who was going where and doing what on their way to whatever place they ended up being doing whatever they ended up doing.

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Oh, speaking of Raeburn airshots - who did the arrangement of "There's No You", Johnny Richards or George Handy?

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4 hours ago, JSngry said:

Oh, speaking of Raeburn airshots - who did the arrangement of "There's No You", Johnny Richards or George Handy?

The credits of HEP LP 3 say George Handy.

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27 minutes ago, mikeweil said:

The credits of HEP LP 3 say George Handy.

Thanks, that makes sense, Johnny Richards was a purveyor of musical buffoonery, imo, and this is not that. George Handy was quite often silly, but not always. And even when he was silly, he never descended into buffoonery. And when he was good...

That chart is pretty amazing...it starts out pretty silly (Handy's atonalish, staccato-y "fanfare" shit gets old in a big hurry for me, as does his habit of gussying of trivial melodies with overly dense and/or prissy orchestration), but the way the whole thing goes into the vocal, the last bar, really, is nothing short of transcendental, it almost(?) physically lifts you into a new plane. And then the vocal chorus after the instrumental interlude, that modulation in a most unexpected place...just wonderful, totally wonderful!

I don't have any of the HEP LPs (yet), and am now wondering - there's two performances of this chart that I do know - one on a Storyville CD, and the other on Aircheck records: https://www.discogs.com/Boyd-Raeburn-And-His-Orchestra-Rhythms-By-Raeburn/release/2942460

The Storyville CD suffers from Dave Allyn not hitting his entrance quite right (or being off mike when he did). The Aircheck Records version is superb. Does HEP LP 3 duplicate either of these, or is it a third, different performance?

This is kinda what I mean about the need (ok, want) for a systematic collation of everything that is known to exist, Whole performances, grouped together in original form, not "selections from", or anything like that. One of the more niche-y of the niche markets to be sure, but...that band never really played anything exactly the same way twice.

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11 minutes ago, JSngry said:

I don't have any of the HEP LPs (yet), and am now wondering - there's two performances of this chart that I do know - one on a Storyville CD, and the other on Aircheck records: https://www.discogs.com/Boyd-Raeburn-And-His-Orchestra-Rhythms-By-Raeburn/release/2942460

The Storyville CD suffers from Dave Allyn not hitting his entrance quite right (or being off mike when he did). The Aircheck Records version is superb. Does HEP LP 3 duplicate either of these, or is it a third, different performance?

I am not quite sure about how to interpret your description, and to me David Allyn does not sound off mike when he comes in.
According to the liner notes, this track (and 3 others) was recorded in July/August 1946 at the Club Morocco in L.A. Maybe this gives a clue as to which is which?

BTW, there are TWO different issues of Hep LP 3. The older one (with distinctly more primitive cover artwork) is called "On The Air Vol. 2", the second one is titled "Where You At". The tracks differ too: The later issue features "Temptation" and "Are You Livin' Old Man" instead "How High The Moon" and "Tea For Two" (a solo feature for Dodo Marmarosa clearly taken from a Jubilee broadcast, judging by the announcement by "The Stomach That Walks Like A  Man"). To my ears "There's No You" sounds a bit brighter on the second issue.

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On the other version I've heard, Allyn enters in sync with the orchestra, blended right in with them, and then ascends to being on top of them. In this one, his entrance is not the same, it's off beat to the orchestra's chord, and that kills the "magic" a bit for me.

Interesting that there are different HEP LPs with the same catalog number...how did that happen?

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3 hours ago, JSngry said:

Interesting that there are different HEP LPs with the same catalog number...how did that happen?

No idea how - that's what the Lord Disco says:

Note: Hep (E)3 titled "On The Air, Vol. 2"; ****Special Note****: There are 2 editions of Hep (E)3. On the second edition "How high the moon" (August 14, 1947) and "Tea for two" (c. February 1946) are replaced by "Are you livin' old man" (c. December 1945) and "Temptation" (c. December 1945).

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Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, mikeweil said:

No idea how - that's what the Lord Disco says:

Note: Hep (E)3 titled "On The Air, Vol. 2"; ****Special Note****: There are 2 editions of Hep (E)3. On the second edition "How high the moon" (August 14, 1947) and "Tea for two" (c. February 1946) are replaced by "Are you livin' old man" (c. December 1945) and "Temptation" (c. December 1945).

Which is what I said above. ;)

My guess is that they discarded the Dodo Marmarosa feature of "Tea for Two", for example, because it was a bit out of sync with teh (big-band) rest nof the contents of the LP,particularly if other big band material was available (which apparently there was). Maybe they also figured at Hep it was about time they updated their cover artwork if they wanted to attract wider sales for items they intended to keep in print. The Hep 1 LP has a "handmade typewritten cut-and-paste" cover that reeks of an outright 70s bootleg. Charming in the light of later releases on the label (including as a "period piece") but baffling on its own. And the first edition of Hep 3 is only a step above that, comparatively speaking.

 

Edited by Big Beat Steve

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Does Hep keep all their titles in print or do they go OOP eventually?

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12 minutes ago, Captain Howdy said:

Does Hep keep all their titles in print or do they go OOP eventually?

I guess the vinyls went OOP when they shifted to CDs but I do remember the LPs were kept in print for rather a long time. I remember buying Hep 3 (2nd ed.) NEW along with Hep 17 and Hep 22 in a specialist shop in the early 90s.

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On 4/15/2019 at 0:09 AM, Ted O'Reilly said:

I heard today of a Mosaic project that is already underway, but I'd not heard even a rumour of it.  The tapes have been baked and the mixing is underway.

I'm not trying to be a tease here, but I was asked to not reveal it quite yet.  It involves a whopping good bunch of unreleased club recordings, more material that doesn't duplicate earlier very well-known material by the same artists.

I absolutely trust my source, and it'll be a welcome addition to my collection.

Back in April, my source was Don Thompson.  This has shown up on Doug Ramsey's valuable Rifftides blog...  

Q:  Any chance someone will release any of the unreleased stash of Don Thompson’s recordings of this group?

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10 minutes ago, Ted O'Reilly said:

Back in April, my source was Don Thompson.  This has shown up on Doug Ramsey's valuable Rifftides blog...  

Q:  Any chance someone will release any of the unreleased stash of Don Thompson’s recordings of this group?

Would be wonderful ... count me in ....

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I think a very interesting set would be a collection of all the "live at Newport" LPs that Verve release. What an overview of jazz history that would be. . . from Turk Murphy to Cecil Taylor.

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1 hour ago, soulpope said:

Would be wonderful ... count me in ....

Over the years, Don has 'dribbled' a few of these unreleased tunes, in a rough listening-mix.  It'll be great to hear them in real studio clean-ups.  And there are some tracks where Ed Bickert was unavailable, so Rob McConnell subbed in, on trombone.  Even Rob remarked at the time that he never played better than when he played with Desmond.

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Just now, Ted O'Reilly said:

Over the years, Don has 'dribbled' a few of these unreleased tunes, in a rough listening-mix.  It'll be great to hear them in real studio clean-ups.  And there are some tracks where Ed Bickert was unavailable, so Rob McConnell subbed in, on trombone.  Even Rob remarked at the time that he never played better than when he played with Desmond.

You`re definitely whetting my appetite :D ....

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1 hour ago, jazzbo said:

I think a very interesting set would be a collection of all the "live at Newport" LPs that Verve release. What an overview of jazz history that would be. . . from Turk Murphy to Cecil Taylor.

Now, that's a real good idea.  I wonder how much that is, and how much more is unreleased.  I recall sometimes it was a different band on Side A vs. Side B (Ellington/Clayton) so there has to be more than 20ish minutes from each set...

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The Desmond set is not something I'd clamor for if it was unavailable, but definitely something I'd get if it was!

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2 hours ago, Ted O'Reilly said:

Now, that's a real good idea.  I wonder how much that is, and how much more is unreleased.  I recall sometimes it was a different band on Side A vs. Side B (Ellington/Clayton) so there has to be more than 20ish minutes from each set...

IIRC that was on Columbia.  But may be true of Verve too. 

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