scooter_phx

Trying to help out Mosaic by suggesting sets

423 posts in this topic

5 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:

Give me more tantalizing releases like Sam Rivers' Florida big band 'Select' -- and I'd pay a bit of a premium actually (maybe $20/disc).  Not that opportunities like that abound, I realize...

 ...but are there any unreleased Billy Harper live sets from the 70's in the can somewhere?  Or already mentioned, but all those Max Roach quartet dates with Billy Harper -- damn, I'd probably pay $25/disc for a set of those.

Agreed and :tup:tup for both, but no comment on likelihood. I loved the Select series and would happily pay such prices, but Mosaic appears to have given up on the format.

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On 08/03/2019 at 5:08 PM, jazzbo said:

 

I also suggested to them a complete gathering of Baby Gonzales sides. Michael's appropriate response to me was "You must be out of your mind!"

I think that’s a pretty good idea, neglected musician who kept pretty extraordinary company. Wasn’t Sonny’s debut on Gonzales side. 

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Posted (edited)

I doubt that would ever have a chance of selling enough copies to make it worthwhile. Blue Note issued a Babs Gonzales CD. How many copies did that sell?

And yes - Sonny's first recordings were made with Babs Gonzales. They're available on that BN release.

Edited by paul secor

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Posted (edited)

9 hours ago, T.D. said:

Agreed and :tup:tup for both, but no comment on likelihood. I loved the Select series and would happily pay such prices, but Mosaic appears to have given up on the format.

I was sorry to see the Select series go too, but it wasn't commercially viable. I wonder if hiking the price would have helped, sales were were already too low as it was.

Edited by J.A.W.

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I always asked myself now many copies they actually did sell before the licenses expired. The new figures of 2000 to 2500 copies may reflect that.

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2 hours ago, J.A.W. said:

I was sorry to see the Select series go too, but it wasn't commercially viable. I wonder if hiking the price would have helped, sales were were already too low as it was.

It's too bad it didn't work out because the concept was great, in my opinion, but obviously didn't appeal to enough folks. 

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Maybe I am making a very stupid comment now but what bugs me the most is the price. Sure, I can see the quality, and quality has got it price but damn the stuff is expansive. And that got nothing to do with not wanting to pay the price for some quality jazz but more with just not earning so much.... 

oh by the way: the Max Roach/Harper set would be a very, very nice one.

And for me personally: the complete Mal Waldron JAPO and Victor records with:

-Spanish Bitch, Tokyo Bound, Tokyo Reverie, The Call, Remeniscent Suite, Encounter with Gary Peacock... all ultra rare and ultra good

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5 minutes ago, Pim said:

And for me personally: the complete Mal Waldron JAPO and Victor records with:

-Spanish Bitch, Tokyo Bound, Tokyo Reverie, The Call, Remeniscent Suite, Encounter with Gary Peacock... all ultra rare and ultra good

Good choice ....

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Looks like the Mobley project is moving forward. 

From Mosaic:

"Thanks to the response of the Mosaic Records community we have begun the process of assembling the set. Bob Blumenthal is working on liner notes and we are ordering the masters from Blue Note."

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Why have Bob Blumenthal do the notes when John Litweiler is still alive and hopefully well?

Blumenthal is good at presenting facts, but Litweiler delivers insight, especially with Mobley.

This is not an opinion, it's on the historical record.

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39 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Why have Bob Blumenthal do the notes when John Litweiler is still alive and hopefully well?

Blumenthal is good at presenting facts, but Litweiler delivers insight, especially with Mobley.

This is not an opinion, it's on the historical record.

I agree about John's major virtues (and he is alive and well), but the folks at Mosaic have a long history with Blumenthal (in particular, there are Bob's added notes to all those  RVG Blue Note reissues), while they have no history with Litweiler AFAIK. That's what can happen when you're based in the Chicago area. :)

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Gotta be honest, Blumenthal's writing has never been a plus for me anywhere. Nor has it been a minus. It's just....there.

John Litweiler has written so vividly about Mobley's playing, in particular of this era,...if I offer him a mutually agreeable sum, will he write an alternative set of liner notes for this set? Since he lives (and is indeed well, per your reporting) in the Chicago area, I can drive up there one weekend and pay him cash. I'd like to see Mosaic match that offer! :g

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4 hours ago, JSngry said:

Gotta be honest, Blumenthal's writing has never been a plus for me anywhere. Nor has it been a minus. It's just....there.

John Litweiler has written so vividly about Mobley's playing, in particular of this era,...if I offer him a mutually agreeable sum, will he write an alternative set of liner notes for this set? Since he lives (and is indeed well, per your reporting) in the Chicago area, I can drive up there one weekend and pay him cash. I'd like to see Mosaic match that offer! :g

John's collected jazz criticism would be a tome I would pay a good deal for and a blessing for all. When I was a student at the U. of Chicago in the early '60s and reading John's reviews in Kulchur (and assuming because he was appearing in that very good magazine that he must be a fairly mature figure), I was surprised and delighted to soon discover that we lived in the same neighborhood (Hyde Park), that we were about the same age, and that we would become part of the same circle of friends -- Chuck Nessa and Terry Martin in particular. In fact, some jazz people around town used to refer to John, Terry, Chuck and me as the Chicago Jazz Mafia because we had similar views on things and expressed them freely and vigorously, in print and elsewhere.

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3 hours ago, Brad said:

It's too bad it didn't work out because the concept was great, in my opinion, but obviously didn't appeal to enough folks. 

I agree, much preferred them to the big boxes in many ways.

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21 minutes ago, Larry Kart said:

John's collected jazz criticism would be a tome I would pay a good deal for and a blessing for all. 

It seems crazy to me that such a book doesn't exist.  Maybe a university press would take up such a project, if a mainstream publisher couldn't be found?  Grateful that we at least have The Freedom Principle.

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Posted (edited)

16 minutes ago, ghost of miles said:

It seems crazy to me that such a book doesn't exist.  Maybe a university press would take up such a project, if a mainstream publisher couldn't be found?  Grateful that we at least have The Freedom Principle.

The Freedom Principle is a great read, even though someone goofed on the contents page and page 105 ("Transition Miles Davis and Model Jazz") :o ;)

Edited by J.A.W.

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If John Litweiler wrote the notes for the Mobley box, that would be an upgrade for sure, but it wouldn't sway me to buy it.

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There's still an undone Horace Silver set with at least some historical imperative...those 70s Silver 'n ____ things have never been comprehensively addressed, have they? Not sure there's enough of them to make the Mosaic Margin, though, and some are better than others.

But if they could get the rights to the Silveto records (where, again, some are better than others), hey The Complete Mosaic Blue Note & Silveto Recordings 1975-1988.

Even though some are better than others, none suck, and that's the better part of two decades of one of the major jazz composers.

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Boy talk about a mixed bag those would be ... it's been quite while since I heard the Silver 'n recordings, I don't recall them sucking but I don't think of them as fantastic either, that's for sure.  And the Silveto things, the instrumentals are very good, the ones with lyrics I can't really tolerate.  Would be great if Silveto had any more 'vault' recordings like the one from that Long Island club with Joe Hen in the band but playing the older songs.

Overall I think its one of those things that Mosaic might have gotten around to if the market hadn't changed. Maybe.

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I remember being horrified by the "Silver 'n" sets back in the day when I bought them as cutouts, considering them to be grotesquely overorchestrated/overproduced,but I have loosened up quite a bit since then, should give them another listen I guess.  Not at all familiar with the Silvetto sets.  I've always found Silver's lyrics to be embarrassing, and can't say I'm very motivated to look into those. 

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Posted (edited)

I love Silver 'n Brass. "The Sophisticated Hippie"? "Dameron's Dance"? That's some great stuff, man!

OTOH, I don't think the other LPs in the series are as interesting -- but they're all worth a listen. 

I've never heard the Silveto stuff.

 

Edited by HutchFan

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2 minutes ago, HutchFan said:

I love Silver 'n Brass. "The Sophisticated Hippie"? "Dameron's Dance"? That's some great stuff, man!

OTOH, I don't think the other LPs in the series are as interesting -- but they're all worth a listen. 

I've never heard the Silveto stuff.

 

Yeah I remember Silver n Brass as the only one I liked. 

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Silver 'n' Brass is great. From there, they get spotty in terms of arrangements, but the tunes themselves are always interesting. Silver continued to develop as a writer. The front lines are Ton Harrell and either Bob Berg or Larry Schneider, none of who I find particularly compelling past the competent, but they do have their advocates, then and now. But the tunes are all strong, and in a retrospective setting, that's where I'd be focusing. There's a "deep catalog" classic or two on almost every one, and a true picture of Horace Silver the composer (if anybody wants such a thing) is not compelte without an examination of this material.

Oh yeah, Silver 'n' Strings Play The Music Of The Spheres is borderline exceptional. THAT writing...wow. That was the last non-reissue Blue Note before the company went dark for a while, and I think people had just stopped listening to noew Horace Silver records, period. But that one is a worthy addition to the canon.

The Silveto's are a mixed bag, to be sure, and the lyrics (where they are) are what they are, but you got Eddie Harris & Red Holloway all up in there in all kinds of ways. Again, there's some excellent music to be had, as well as some that's not so great.

Bottom line though - it still ain't no bill Barron set.

 

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46 minutes ago, felser said:

...  I've always found Silver's lyrics to be embarrassing, and can't say I'm very motivated to look into those. 

I've always been curious about the non-vocal music, but never got around to purchasing anything. Once heard a recording of Dee Dee Bridgewater singing some ghastly Silver lyrics (Tokyo Blues iirc), and that eradicated any desire to hear Horace's vocal stuff. I'd strongly consider a late Silver set if there was sufficient purely instrumental material. It's definitely a gap in the Blue Note catalog.

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1 minute ago, T.D. said:

I've always been curious about the non-vocal music, but never got around to purchasing anything. Once heard a recording of Dee Dee Bridgewater singing some ghastly Silver lyrics (Tokyo Blues iirc), and that eradicated any desire to hear Horace's vocal stuff. I'd strongly consider a late Silver set if there was sufficient purely instrumental material. It's definitely a gap in the Blue Note catalog.

The "embarrassing" lyrics are usually considered to be the "self-help" lyrics. Silver really, really believed in the notion of music as healing for the body, mind, and spirit. I myself don't find them embarrassing per se, but you could call the naïve (in the classic sense) and not be too far at all off the mark.

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