The 1970s-1990s "Downtown NYC" jazz scene

[Guy Berger]

Hi all,

I'd be interested in people's wisdom/recollections regarding NYC's "downtown jazz" scene of the 1970s-1990s; including but not limited to its links to other jazz streams of that and future periods - i.e. AACM, BAG, the 1970s loft scene, "Nonesuch jazz", "ECM jazz", MBase, British free improv, 2000s/2010s downtown jazz (is this distinct?), the edgier side of straight ahead jazz...

At the time it might have been overhyped (I imagine race might be a factor?), but a lot of interesting and influential musicians came out of here, some of whom have had big ripple effects elsewhere.  Bill Frisell, John Zorn, Tim Berne, Joey Baron, Medeski Martin & Wood, there are lots of people worth mentioning here.

FWIW... When I started listening to jazz back in the 1990s, coming in as a prog-rock listener, downtown stuff was often mentioned to me as THE future in jazz and THE natural heir to THE JAZZ TRADITION (often in direct distinction to / criticism of Wynton Marsalis and the Young Lions, but via omission also a criticism of contemporaneous African-American avant-gardists too).  I feel like now that this scene is "ancient history" we can maybe evaluate it a little more calmly/fairly.

[clifford_thornton]

Good thread idea; I'm a little young to have been there at the outset, but when I was getting into the music in the mid-90s, the work of Zorn, Berne, Frisell et al seemed overhyped and a bit too crisp. Now, two-plus decades later I have no problem listening to that music and quite enjoy Berne, Frisell, and earlier Zorn (Parachute etc.) stuff. Even Naked City I can deal with now. John Lurie I always liked and that remains the case. My tastes are a lot wider ranging these days, and thus things like Hal Willner's projects make a lot more sense.

[felser]

I've revisited a few times through the years, and it's always left me cold in general.   I find the loft scene music a lot more to my tastes.  My tastes are also broader than they were in the past, but they aren't universal.

[Chuck Nessa]

More attention needs to be payed to the "colored" musicians.

[Guy Berger]

How do people feel about the analogy of 1950s west coast jazz : bebop :: downtown jazz scene: avant-garde jazz ?

35 minutes ago, Chuck Nessa said:

More attention needs to be payed to the "colored" musicians.

Yes!  Please say more

[clifford_thornton]

13 hours ago, Chuck Nessa said:

More attention needs to be payed to the "colored" musicians.

yeah, at the time I was first discovering creative music, I didn't want to hear anything that was not made by black players (with a few exceptions). That eventually changed.

[JSngry]

I remember it as the music that ruined irony for me.

[Steve Reynolds]

When I discovered this music (and related music of all sorts) on record and in person I had no thought about the race of the musicians. Today I’m even less concerned if that’s possible.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Steve Reynolds