Valuation of Mosaic Collection

[jazzmantom2004]

OK everyone. I need your help.

By now, you may have read that my mother and I are liquidating my father's jazz collection. It was his wish that we place the collection with other jazz fans and use the proceeds as life insurance for my mom. (He was too ill in his late adulthood to get insurance).

So here's the question- How do we value the Mosaic collection? The pricing doesn't seem to follow any particular reasoning other than demand.

We've been made various offers on some of the things, but we don't know if they are reasonable or just someone trying to take advantage of the situation. I'd like to think the former not the latter.

Please help.

Thanks,

Hal

PS- We assume you have heard of this estate liquidation, but if you haven't we can send you a MS Excel spreadsheet of the available discs via email. Write us at jazzmantom2004@yahoo.com

[Dan Gould]

One way to judge the current market is to search by "Mosaic" and "completed items" on ebay. Then you can see where the market is at the present time, at least over the last 30 days, which is as long as ebay keeps completed auctions in the public database.

I don't quite understand this statement:

The pricing doesn't seem to follow any particular reasoning other than demand.

Isn't that exactly the way it should work, pricing following demand?

[PHILLYQ]

If you want to get an idea of a fair price for the Mosaic sets, please keep in mind that the out of print sets frequently sell for far more than they did at the time of issue. One thing you could look at is what a particular set went for on Ebay to get an idea. Another is to actually put it on Ebay- you'll probably wind up with the best price you can get for the set. If someone is coming to you with an offer that works out to $10-$15 per disc they are probably trying to take advantage of your unfamiliarity with Mosaic sets. Another thing to look at is the Mosaic threads on this board and the Ebay craziness thread for information.

[robviti]

I don't quite understand this statement:

The pricing doesn't seem to follow any particular reasoning other than demand.

Isn't that exactly the way it should work, pricing following demand?

perhaps what he means is that there are no listings for mosaic sets in publications like goldmine that offer suggestions of the "going price" for these collectibles. instead, the immediate demand for mosaics (as reflected in ebay prices) seems to vary considerably from month to month, if not week to week. at least that's my interpretation.

[jazzmantom2004]

Nicely said. Yes that is what I meant. I like the Homer donut thing, too. Now that's priceless.

[Jazzmoose]

If someone is coming to you with an offer that works out to $10-$15 per disc they are probably trying to take advantage of your unfamiliarity with Mosaic sets.

Shut up, damn it!

(To jazzmantom: sorry; just kidding...he's right, of course! By the way, going the eBay route wouldn't be the worst thing to do with the Mosaics. Jazz fans know that the sets will be for sale on the site, so plenty of us are looking. )

[Alec]

Jeez, now that is a moral dilemma -- Tell him how much the Mosaics are really worth so he can take take care of his mother, or lie and get them cheap for yourself

(like Jazzmoose, just kidding! Although, coming up with a fair price and offering them up here or on other jazz sites might get more of them in the hands of Jazz fans rather than rich collectors on Ebay. But, if the money is needed, by all means sell them on Ebay, spacing them out over a few months so as not to tap out bidders.)

[Bol]

Jazz Record Center in NYC seems to have an informal rule of $50 per disc for an OOP Mosaic set. Perhaps this is a bit too high for some recently OOP sets. But if sets do not sell at that price, then you can then turn to ebay. Hope that helps.

[undergroundagent]

Hal,

I'd do more research on your stuff before you sell it. Those Basie sets will get you good coin. That said, however, jazz is jazz and I'm not sure you can expect to necessarily get "market value" on this board. Most sellers here tend to sell their stuff at lower prices before they move it to ebay just as a courtesy to the fellow jazz fan.

Lon (jazzbo), for example, has offered OOP Mosaics at quite reasonable prices on here when he could've gotten much more on Ebay. I, myself, even sold the Tina Brooks Mosaic for $80. In short, you need to decide what you want to become of the music. Selling on Ebay will most cerrtainly get you more, but there's always the risk that people are simply buying the music to re-sell at a higher price (something I gather your Dad would oppose...). It's up to you, but just know there's a good bunch of people here that would gladly give your father's collection a good home.

Maybe, you should try posting your list in this section. I know Marty (MartyJazz) did this a couple months back, and did very well for the widow he was selling the music for.

Edited March 11, 2004 by undergroundagent

[jazzmantom2004]

Ah, now there's the rub.

The balance between highest price for mom and getting the music to a true collector.

Some dilemma.

I hope my dad's looking down with a smile at our effort (or looking up).

HAL

[undergroundagent]

Exactly.

I do think, however, that if you post your loose discs (those not Mosaics...), you'll sell a good portion of them. I really liked Marty's idea...he sold everything at the same price ($6 per disc?), but I betcha' he must have sold 75% of that collection which was initially nearly 600 cds.

You might want to consider this route. Selling over 1000 discs off over Ebay will be time consuming and cost you $$ to boot. Post the Mosaics on Ebay, but the others on here. I think that would be a happy medium that even your father would appreciate.

Edited March 11, 2004 by undergroundagent

[sidewinder]

That was a mighty fine list of Mosaics on the spreadsheet, Hal. Your dad had exquisite taste..

[Brad]

BTW, his Basies are gone.

Hal, I think that when it comes to your mother you should maximize your value. Of course, that may put it out of range of some people but you're here to help your mother, not us.

Also, please remember that the price you sell to a fan will be different than what you sell to a dealer who will take a haicut off the price. For example, the Clayton which you might sell to someone on ebay for $250 will be somewhat reduced (perhaps by a third) when you sell to a dealer.

When it comes to OOP Mosaics, it's all a question of supply and demand. For instance, with the Nat King Cole the price on that has varied from around $500-600 on down because it's not always in demand. When it is, watch out.

Also with ebay, as you probably know, you can never account for someone who just has to have something.

[Dave James]

Interesting question. I agree the best way to determine a reasonable value for OOP Mosaics is the somehow incorporate E-bay. It's just too bad there's no way to access an all inclusive "completed items" database that would show you what certain sets sold for for longer than just one month. That would let you average the costs over a longer period and come up with an "all things considered" price. As others have pointed out, the problem with only having access to recently closed auctions is that you have to deal with some bidders who get the "I wants" and will bid things up beyond any reasonable level. For instance, the recent prices the Basie sets are commanding are as high as I've seen in awhile.

A couple of other thoughts. Once you've finally arrived at what you believe to be a fair price for your sets, protect yourself by establishing a reserve for each auction. I'd also recommend bleeding these into the system a few at a time. That way you give collectors a chance to recover and bid again for other sets. Otherwise, you'll minimize your potential buyer base.

Timing is everything. Problem is there's no way to anticipate a bull market.

Up over and out.

[jazzmantom2004]

Mom & I had 2 collectors offer us $400 and $500 for the Basie sets separately and without negotiation so we sold them. Quite frankly we were dumbfounded.

My mother remebered waiting for my father while he mused over a bargain bin of jazz in North Carolina. He picked up a couple of CDs for $4-5 each. Now mind you, I don't believe for a second that he bought things for value. I know he bought things because he wanted the music or an artist. So back to the story, he bought a disc called Carnegie Hall Christmas 1949 for $3.99. Without even listing it, someone sent us $50 bucks for it.

So the market is variable. That I know. Dad was not into the internet or he probably would have spent more money, but I know that if there was something he wanted, he bought it.

Anyway, we will list the Mosaics on eBay, I think. The greatest possible audience will see them that way.

Thanks everybody!

Hal

[connoisseur series500]

Anyway, we will list the Mosaics on eBay, I think. The greatest possible audience will see them that way.

Best way to do it for sure.

[Brad]

Hal,

That Carnegie Hall 1949 Disc is a great one: Charlie Parker, Bud Powell, etc. However, even though it is rare and hard to find, $50 is a little steep, even for me.

Regarding your oop Mosaics, like the Clayton you should do well. On some of the others, like the Kenton Presents or the Gerald Wilson, I wouldn't expect to get more than what you could get by buying them from Mosaic directly.

Good luck!

[ejp626]

Just thought I would put in a good word for Hal. I ordered 11 items, mostly loose CDs as well as the Duke Ellington/Ella Fitzgerald Complete Cote D'Azur concerts. The CDs are all in excellent shape, and the shipping was very fast. This really was quite a collection.

Eric

[mr jazz]

I, OTOH, ordered what was advertised as the Storyville 97 Duke at Fargo but turned out to be the 1990 Vintage jazz classic release instead. Hal offered a 30% refund and I keep the discs which seems fair. Is there much difference in SQ between the 2 releases???

[medjuck]

I, OTOH, ordered what was advertised as the Storyville 97 Duke at Fargo but turned out to be the 1990 Vintage jazz classic release instead. Hal offered a 30% refund and I keep the discs which seems fair. Is there much difference in SQ between the 2 releases???

Not really. They're both mastered by Jack Towers. (Who did the original recording.) I got the new one when it came out and a/b'd them just in case it wasn't as good. The new one seemed very lttle improved to me. (But then my ears have been burned out by too many nights at rock concerts and too many days at sound mixes for films.)

[jazzmantom2004]

Attention fellow members and mr jazz

With all due respect, given that mr jazz has chosen a public forum to call me dishonest through a misrepresentation, I must defend myself in some way.

mr jazz purchased this item from me on half.com. When I searched for the CD under Ellington Fargo this was the CD that came up. I looked at it and saw that the cover art was different. I saw that the music was the same except the version on half.com had LESS music on the CDs and was issued on the 60th anniversary. My version was issued for the 50th Anniversary.

When I listed it, I CLEARLY listed under the descripton that the cover art was different and that this was the earlier 50th Anniversary release of the same music- in fact more music.

I understand mr jazz's disappointment upon opening the package and that is why I offered him some kind of rebate on the discs. This was not a case of deceitful misrepresentation, but a case of the buyer's oversight in reading the information that was posted. I would have hoped as this disc was priced at HALF of the price of the other listings, mr jazz might have had some "red flag' to find out why- and why was in my product description.

Hal

[mr jazz]

I do not see the word dishonest in my post. I do not regard Hal as dishonest. Perhaps the description could have been clearer, perhaps I misread it. As I said above, I was satisfied with Hal's response. I would buy from him again and will post +++ feedback. End of story and this transaction. OK?

[jazzmantom2004]

mr jazz,

I do appreciate your response above and your positive thoughts. Please let me know how you want to receive the credit I promised you, PayPal, check, or merchandise credit.

Thanks,

Hal

Edited March 17, 2004 by jazzmantom2004

[Brad]

Hal,

Out of the spirit of fellowship, I have deleted the post. Although this is a public forum, it is one for jazz fans who have similar interests.

I just don't believe it is approriate for you to take offense at what you peceive to be slights at what you're trying to accomplish when none was intended.

I wish you the best of luck in liquidating your father's collection and thank you for the 3 cds that I purchased from you.

Let's leave it at that.

[jazzmantom2004]

Brad,

I modified my post too.

Thank you for your order.

Hal