1974. Who would have been in Grant Green's band

[Hardbopjazz]

Anyone have an idea who would have been in Grant's band in 1978? Just think, in less than a year he would no longer be among the living.

 

 

Edited 3 Jun 2019 by Hardbopjazz

[Patrick]

And first Chicago appearance, ...for this quintet?

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

[sidewinder]

Emmanuel Riggins, Ronnie Ware, Greg Williams, Gerald Izzard?

Edited 1 Jun 2019 by sidewinder

[sgcim]

Was Claude Bartee still around then? An ex-GF used to live with him and KG, a pianist with a 'habit' we've mentioned before. Don't wanna get too specific here...

[Niko]

sidewinder's proposal above is the band from Vancouver 75 - which is already post-Bartee... read the liner notes to that one earlier today, Greg "Vibrations" Williams claims that he was with Green for 5/6 years starting around 1970 so if that's accurate he's out... 

[Hardbopjazz]

The person that posted this photo said it was 1978. It can't be 1978 because Wednesday the 27th of February was not 1978. It is 1977.

[mjzee]

The phone # listed is DE7-1000.  Were letters still in use in the late '70's?  I think the conversion to all numbers generally happened in the late '60's.  Also, per jazzdisco.org, Joe Dukes last appeared on a McDuff session in 1969.  Finally, look at the prices.  So, could this be from 1963 (the only time in the Sixties that February 20 & 27 were on a Wednesday)?

You can double-check this by researching when the Jazz Showcase moved from N. Rush St. (I couldn't find that info).

[Niko]

10 hours ago, Hardbopjazz said:

The person that posted this photo said it was 1978. It can't be 1978 because Wednesday the 27th of February was not 1978. It is 1977.

actually, February 27 1977 was a Sunday... Wednesday February 27 1974 would be a possibility. Regarding the location of the the Jazz Showcase, it seems like it was opened at that address in the early seventies (late sixties was still North Park Hotel). Jack McDuff calling his band the Heating System also sounds more like 1974 than 1963...

edit: can't access it but there's some stuff in the Chicago Tribune about this concert from 1974...

Edited 2 Jun 2019 by Niko

[Hardbopjazz]

2 hours ago, Niko said:

actually, February 27 1977 was a Sunday... Wednesday February 27 1974 would be a possibility. Regarding the location of the the Jazz Showcase, it seems like it was opened at that address in the early seventies (late sixties was still North Park Hotel). Jack McDuff calling his band the Heating System also sounds more like 1974 than 1963...

edit: can't access it but there's some stuff in the Chicago Tribune about this concert from 1974...

Thanks. 

[robertoart]

If it's from '74 this info may be relevant? There is an interview in January '75 edition of Guitar Player magazine (so actual interview possibly occurred late 74 perhaps)?. Grant's band is identified in that article as Desmond Norman vibes, Emmanuel Riggins keys, Ronnie Ware bass, Richard Frierson drums, Rahsool congas. Some commonality from the band recorded at Oil Can Harry's in Sept 75. 

There is also a live version of Skin Tight dated as from Pittsburgh '74 on youtube, sounds a lot like the medley arrangements on Oil Can Harry's with the Milestones groove. 

Grant Green's son has also documented in interview a pro shot film short, possibly same era, but just guessing. 

Edited 2 Jun 2019 by robertoart

[Niko]

this information matches what's in the Oil Can Harry's liner notes pretty well actually (there, they claim that Gerald Izzard (percussion) had been with the band for about 8 months, so joined early 75, Ware had been with the band for about two years, Riggins was the constant in these years, Greg Williams had recently returned - so Riggins & Ware are the expected overlap). In one of the newspaper snippets, it also looked like there was a vibes player in the quintet, so the lineup matches pretty well (except there's one person too many - so maybe no extra percussionist)

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

 totally missed that- absoutely has to be 60s with that phone number!

[felser]

And was Joe Dukes still on the scene in the late 70's?  Don't see evidence he recorded after about 1970.

[mjzee]

I found this image on a Facebook page.  It claims this was from 1978, but I have my doubts (was the Rivers/Holland/Altschul trio playing in 1978?).  In any event, the phone # shows as 337-1000.  So I'm doubting the OP photo was from the mid-70's.

Can someone call the Jazz Showcase and ask them?  Current phone #: 312-360-0234.

[Niko]

to me, it's pretty clear that the ad is from 1974 (and not 1963 which is the only alternative), see here

https://chicagotribune.newspapers.com/search/#dr_year=1974-1974&query=Grant+Green&oquery=Grant+Green+1974

further evidence is the location of the Jazz Showcase, the name of McDuff's band... Joe Dukes recorded as late as 1992 even though admittedly that seems to be an outlier... 

https://www.discogs.com/Joey-G-Clef-Cavaseno-Live-at-the-Cornerstone-with-Herman-Foster-Joe-Dukes-/release/7505413

regarding the phone numbers (I had no clue), wikipedia claims that it took about a decade for the switch to become effective (1965-1975) and that even nowadays a few lost souls notate phone numbers in the old way

edit simultaneous posting... this extremely trustworthy page confirms 1978 for Sam Rivers... and it would be perfectly natural to adjust the phone number at some point between 1974 and 1978 if you still used the old one in 1974

http://www.bb10k.com/RIVERS.disc.html

 

good idea to look for more Jazz Showcase Posters... 

in the top row, there's a Herbie Hancock Septet poster which has the same design as ours (including the DE7 phone number). I would see that as further evidence for 1974 (or 73 for the Hancock concert) vs 1963

Edited 2 Jun 2019 by Niko

[Justin V]

35 minutes ago, mjzee said:

I found this image on a Facebook page.  It claims this was from 1978, but I have my doubts (was the Rivers/Holland/Altschul trio playing in 1978?).  In any event, the phone # shows as 337-1000.  So I'm doubting the OP photo was from the mid-70's.

Can someone call the Jazz Showcase and ask them?  Current phone #: 312-360-0234.

Oh, man. What a lineup!

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

but no way they had old style tele-numbers....in 1974, no?

[mjzee]

It looks like Chicago phone numbers had letters until 1977.  See: https://www.wbez.org/shows/curious-city/the-311-on-chicagos-early-phone-numbers/d48f9310-9b4c-4c78-9ebb-7080cdb856cf

[Gheorghe]

10 hours ago, Niko said:

to me, it's pretty clear that the ad is from 1974 (and not 1963 which is the only alternative), see here

https://chicagotribune.newspapers.com/search/#dr_year=1974-1974&query=Grant+Green&oquery=Grant+Green+1974

further evidence is the location of the Jazz Showcase, the name of McDuff's band... Joe Dukes recorded as late as 1992 even though admittedly that seems to be an outlier... 

https://www.discogs.com/Joey-G-Clef-Cavaseno-Live-at-the-Cornerstone-with-Herman-Foster-Joe-Dukes-/release/7505413

regarding the phone numbers (I had no clue), wikipedia claims that it took about a decade for the switch to become effective (1965-1975) and that even nowadays a few lost souls notate phone numbers in the old way

edit simultaneous posting... this extremely trustworthy page confirms 1978 for Sam Rivers... and it would be perfectly natural to adjust the phone number at some point between 1974 and 1978 if you still used the old one in 1974

http://www.bb10k.com/RIVERS.disc.html

 

good idea to look for more Jazz Showcase Posters... 

in the top row, there's a Herbie Hancock Septet poster which has the same design as ours (including the DE7 phone number). I would see that as further evidence for 1974 (or 73 for the Hancock concert) vs 1963

Yes, this was the blessed days when you could see all those living legends on stage. All of them are among my favourites.

[JSngry]

https://www.answers.com/Q/What_year_did_February_27_fall_on_a_Wednesday

That's Wednesday, February 27, 1974.