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New all-analog LP issue


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Seeking suggestions, advice etc. Responses welcome via private message.

I'm thinking of launching a Kickstarter campaign to issue an all-analog double LP of a recording I made some time ago, "Soul Journey" (Sintra).

It was recorded and mixed to analog tape by Joe Ferla at Avatar Studios and would be mastered by Bernie Grundman with a limited pressing of 500 150g LPs.

I'm trying to gauge the interest out there for a high quality all-analogue LP release among audiophiles for this kind of music.  The Kickstarter campaign will offer several premium support opportunities including signed and numbered copies, test pressings, 15ips 10" first generation master tape, scores and lead sheets. Any ideas and recommendations for reaching out via email, message boards, vinyl listening cafes, etc. appreciated.

Samples of the CD here: https://store.cdbaby.com/cd/mweiss

 

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Its a great CD, everybody who's a fan of Michael or any of the other musicians should hear it but I am not the target market for that kind of thing. I would be kinda curious what the funding target would be for a project like this with such a small pressing run.

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On 6/8/2019 at 3:11 PM, sgcim said:

I hear a big difference between the sound of the old LPs they play on KCR, and the slick, overproduced digital crap they play on BGO.

I know nothing of either station's sound, nor the source of what they broadcast, but boy oh boy there's an awful lot of signal processing that's available for radio stations to shout out their programming.  That could be as much involved as to whether it's old LPs or 'digital crap'...

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As I said in the Audio Forum thread, I'd certainly order one!

Regarding the gauging of interest, isn't that what Kickstarter is all about? You don't have to move ahead with the project if you don't meet your goal.

The only other thing I can add is that "all analog" cutting is not automatic depending on where/how it is cut. I have heard that some cutters convert the audio to digital prior to the cut so that it makes it easier to cut. I know that Kevin Gray at Cohearant Audio has an all-analog cutter and because of that, he is in demand from the audiophile labels.

I found this over on the Hoffman forums:

Neumann introduced new cutting equipment using digital delay instead of tape read-ahead in the late 1970s. Not everyone used those lathes, not everyone used the digital delay. It's the same now. There are a few cutting studios that have customised their Neumann lathes for analog look-ahead.

It's complicated because doing all analog means having a custom tape machine. With the digital delay any source can be used. There is also a custom digital look ahead system used by GZvinyl, that digitizes the master then syncs that to the analog, with the true analog signal going to the cutter and the digital driving the look-ahead. Lots of ways.

Most records state something like 'cut using the original analog tapes' and this could mean anything unless a better description can be coaxed out of the engineers. FWIW, I doubt you'll find a non-analog cut from any major audiophile label. 'audiophile' labelled disks from major labels, that's another thing.

I've never tracked down the (very proprietary) details of the Neumann delay. I don't believe that initially it was even actually digital, (as in A>>D>>A) but was a clocked analog delay line.

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With Kickstarter that’s true. But setting the correct goal amount is tricky, regardless of your actual costs - too high and it doesn’t go through. Too low and your sitting on boxes of records..

 

My understanding is that Bernie Grundman’s mastering has no digital process at all.

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1 hour ago, Michael Weiss said:

With Kickstarter that’s true. But setting the correct goal amount is tricky, regardless of your actual costs - too high and it doesn’t go through. Too low and your sitting on boxes of records..

My understanding is that Bernie Grundman’s mastering has no digital process at all.

Bernie's mastering is not what I'm talking about. Cutting is the potential issue. If you use Bernie to master in analog and then he cuts using a cutting lathe with a digital audio look ahead system, the analog signal will get converted to digital before the cutting head. I believe that this is so the cutter knows when to start the cut and how far apart to space the cuts. As I understand it, these digital look ahead systems allow for a much more consistent cut. Cutting in analog requires a bit more skill by the cutter.

I've seen some LPs where I've wondered "what the heck?". They're the ones when you pull it out and see 20-25 minutes of music squashed into about 2 inches of vinyl area with a huge runoff groove. That record will likely not be considered audiophile and I highly doubt that it was cut with a digital look ahead. :)

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4 hours ago, bresna said:

I've seen some LPs where I've wondered "what the heck?". They're the ones when you pull it out and see 20-25 minutes of music squashed into about 2 inches of vinyl area with a huge runoff groove.

where the hell do you see a record like that?

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7 hours ago, bresna said:

They are not common but I've seen several. You'll know one when you pull the record out of the sleeve. It's a definite double take when you see it. I imagine most cutters would take one look, say "Oops" and take another try rather than press it like that but if the schedule's tight... :)

I wonder if the objective was to reduce the inherent problems with inner groove cutting and distortion on LPs.  They're not really the Holy Grail of sound, y'know.  Only live sound is, and even there I wonder if you're hearing what I'm hearing.  :o

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  • 1 month later...
On 6/10/2019 at 5:09 PM, JSngry said:

where the hell do you see a record like that?

Jim - if you buy some of the latest Blue Note "BN80" LP cuts, there are several with what I would call iffy cuts resulting in large dead wax areas. Both sides of Johnny's Griffin's "Introducing" have over an inch of dead wax and Side 2 of Dexter Gordon's "Doin' Allright" has over an inch and a quarter. Personally, if I were the cutter, I would have re-cut Side 2 of that Dexter LP. Cutting that compressed probably reduced the dynamic range.

On the bright side, I think it proves without a doubt that Kevin Gray is cutting these "all analog" with no digital delay circuit. :) :)

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