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Jim Bouton of "Ball Four" Fame Dies


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I saw Bouton pitch for the Portland Mavericks (the subject of the documentary, "The Battered Bastards Of Baseball") in the 70's.  By then, he was a knuckleballer.  He went 4-1 with a 2.20 ERA.  "Ball Four" along with Jim Brosnan's book, "The Long Season" both put baseball under a microscope that was not particularly flattering.

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Edited by Dave James
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2 hours ago, medjuck said:

Loved him as Terry Lennox  in Altman's The Long Goodbye. 

I thought he did a fine job as Lennox.  Gould may have done precisely what Altman wanted, but I thought what he did was a terrible Marlowe.  But I guess in Hollywood it's considered cheating to have read the book!

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3 minutes ago, GA Russell said:

I thought he did a fine job as Lennox.  Gould may have done precisely what Altman wanted, but I thought what he did was a terrible Marlowe.  But I guess in Hollywood it's considered cheating to have read the book!

I think the ending is better than that of the book.  I just wish Altman hadn't gone around saying he was deconstructing the book (or words to that effect).  BTW Has anyone else read The Black Eyed Blonde? It's a sequel to The Long Goodbye commissioned by the Chandler estate.

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2 hours ago, medjuck said:

Loved him as Terry Lennox  in Altman's The Long Goodbye. 

Love Altman, loathed that movie and the ending. For me, it was one of those movies that you watch, and you’re shaking your head saying “no” for the whole movie. Might have to watch again to be certain about my dislike. 

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38 minutes ago, medjuck said:

I think the ending is better than that of the book.  I just wish Altman hadn't gone around saying he was deconstructing the book (or words to that effect).  BTW Has anyone else read The Black Eyed Blonde? It's a sequel to The Long Goodbye commissioned by the Chandler estate.

Joe, I've never heard of it, but if you recommend it I'll put it on my camels list.

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5 hours ago, Dave James said:

I saw Bouton pitch for the Portland Mavericks (the subject of the documentary, "The Battered Bastards Of Baseball") in the 70's.  By then, he was a knuckleballer.  He went 4-1 with a 2.20 ERA. 

Bouton was with the Astros when Ball Four was released...he was maddeningly inconsistent with his pitching then, and that, coupled with the dislike for him among most fans for having wrote the book, made for some really intense booing episodes in the Dome.

Back then, I unconditionally loved the book and its (necessary) irreverence. With the benefit of hindsight, I still feel the book was necessary, but do have some empathy for the sense of betrayal that some players felt. Ultimately, the book's value could probably have been maintained with naming all the names that were named in regard to all the activities that were portrayed. Of course, it's all history now, but it was still pretty much real-time then.

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2 hours ago, GA Russell said:

Joe, I've never heard of it, but if you recommend it I'll put it on my camels list.

I like it much better than the acclaimed "last"( I guess until he goes pd) Philip Marlowe novel: "Only to Sleep".  I still haven't read "Perchance to Dream" the sequel to "The Big Sleep" which Robert B Parker wrote. 

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1 minute ago, medjuck said:

I like it much better than the acclaimed "last"( I guess until he goes pd) Philip Marlowe novel: "Only to Sleep".  I still haven't read "Perchance to Dream" the sequel to "The Big Sleep" which Robert B Parker wrote. 

Joe, do you believe Chandler wrote Playback?  I don't.  The writing was not his style IMO.

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1 hour ago, GA Russell said:

Joe, do you believe Chandler wrote Playback?  I don't.  The writing was not his style IMO.

Is there any question about that? I haven't heard.

I liked the movie a lot. You just have to adjust your mindset from Bogart and the other classic Marlowe interpretations. Sterling Hayden was great, too!

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I used to think his  decline began with the second half of The Long Goodbye and reached its nadir with Playback.  It is based on an unmade  screenplay he wrote a that doesn't involve Marlowe, which may explain its deficiencies.  (That screenplay was published by the Mysterious Press under the title "Raymond Chandler's Unknown Thriller".  )

Reading Long Goodbye more recently I like it a bit better but still think the end of the movie is more satisfying and makes more sense. Black Eyed Blonde follows the book not the movie.  

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58 minutes ago, medjuck said:

I used to think his  decline began with the second half of The Long Goodbye and reached its nadir with Playback.  It is based on an unmade  screenplay he wrote a that doesn't involve Marlowe, which may explain its deficiencies.  (That screenplay was published by the Mysterious Press under the title "Raymond Chandler's Unknown Thriller".  )

Reading Long Goodbye more recently I like it a bit better but still think the end of the movie is more satisfying and makes more sense. Black Eyed Blonde follows the book not the movie.  

Okay, now I’m definitely going to rewatch The Long Goodbye, I want to see if I will change my mind about the film. 

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