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John Coltrane - Blue World

103 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

otoh, I still watch Green Acres reruns because Eva Gabor looked so fine in them. It's not like I'm wanting to live in Hooterville or anything. It's just a pleasing 25 or so minutes of TV. Plus, hey, Hank Patterson transcends time.

Thank you. One can listen to unissued Coltrane AND new music. It's not an and/or thing.

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1 hour ago, erwbol said:

You such a pauper you can't afford both? ;)

Much MUCH more interested in the current working musicians.

WAY more surprises than whatever leftovers is on this commercially inspired dredging. 

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On the subject of soundtrack records being different from the music in the film.

1) For Alfie, the music in the film is a different session with British musicians. I would buy that.

2) The takes in The Connection film are not the ones on the Blue Note record.

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10 minutes ago, Steve Reynolds said:

Much MUCH more interested in the current working musicians.

WAY more surprises than whatever leftovers is on this commercially inspired dredging. 

If it wasn't for reissues of classic albums by Miles, Coltrane, etc. I would likely never have discovered the current working musicians you admire so much. And I'm sure "commercially inspired dredging" is too strong a term for what's on offer here. Actually, revisiting older material in the studio in this context at that point in time between Crescent and A Love Supreme sounds quite interesting. 

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1 hour ago, felser said:

  What speaks to us is what speaks to us.  "Patterns" has more to do with my life than any of the current TV shows/movies I am aware of.  Serling was, at root, a complex moralist, and I appreciate that in his work. 

It's surprising sometimes what speaks to us individually.  One of the most indelible memories of TV viewing I have from a kid is watching an episode of Night Gallery which included Rod Serling's "They're Tearing Down Tim Riley's Bar".  I don't know why this particular story so captured my imagination as an 11 or 12 year old kid.  It has no real supernatural or horror elements to it.  It's not suspenseful or action-packed.  It's just about an old guy (well, he was old to me as a kid, but then every one over 30 seemed really old then) realizing time has passed him by and he is caught between living in the present, full of its ever diminishing prospects, and living in the happier memories of his past.  William Windom gave an unforgettable performance and Rod Serling wrote a beautiful script about people one might actually know, not stock characters.  This story grabbed me as kid even though I could not fully understand it.  Now, some 47 years later, it makes a lot more sense and it still holds up as outstanding TV.

"They're Tearing Down Tim Riley's Bar" can be viewed here:(albeit image reversed and slightly slowed down)

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5g5gbp

 

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7 hours ago, GA Russell said:

I ask about PD because if anyone can sell copies, that will limit the price Impulse! will offer this for.

I believe pubic domain has to do with when the recordings have been released, not when they were recorded.....

4 hours ago, Shrdlu said:

It turns out that this is taken from a mono tape (7.5 ips, one wonders), as was the case with last year's 2 CD set. It seems odd that Rudy didn't record it on a proper tape in stereo.

Horror of horrors: The vinyl version of the new album (which I won't be getting) was done by McMaster. I thought he had retired.

I'm sure Rudy did record this on a proper machine with proper tape etc etc...

Rudy ran this machine as a back up to give people tapes to take home (at least for Coltrane and Alfred Lion as far as I know)....

So, tapes that have been lost are rediscovered when someone associated with someone who was important enough to take home tapes from Rudy find the tapes.

Most of the Coltrane stuff comes from the family though I'm told there have been other sources.

I'm working on something now that involves one of these types of tape. Even with the slower speed and such, they sound great. 

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Posted (edited)

8 minutes ago, Hardbopjazz said:

This is great news.  

Unless you're a snob with tunnel vision and an inflated ego.

Edited by erwbol

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http://www.wildmusic-jazz.com/jcr_1964.htm

It seems discographers have known about this possibility for ten years

The  Discography (p. 706) is revised as follows:

Add the following NEW SESSION following session 64-0601:

 

64-0624
Wednesday, June 24, 1964. Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ.
JOHN COLTRANE QUARTET: John Coltrane (ts); McCoy Tyner (p); Jimmy Garrison (b); Elvin
Jones (dr)

a-1.     Village Blues         ( : )
a-2.     Village Blues         ( : )
b-1.     Naima                   ( : )
b-2.     Naima                   ( : )
c.        Out of This World   ( : )

Note:
Soundtrack for the French-Canadian film Le Chat Dans le Sac (The Cat in the Sack), a film by Gilles Groulx.  Originally it was thought that the Coltrane recordings used in this film were excerpts from the standard, commercially available recordings.  However, when the film was put online by the National Film Board of Canada, Chris DeVito determined that the soundtrack versions were new.  Further research by Lewis Porter unearthed the information above, and his analysis of the fragmentary music in the film indicates that there are multiple takes of at least two of the titles.  Whether the original, unedited versions of these recordings still exist is unknown.  The film can be viewed at

http://www.nfb.ca/film/chat_dans_le_sac

(7/22/2010)

 

 

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9 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

Seriously?

Seriously.  Style and aesthetics are important to some of us.

9 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

These are presumably full tracks, not the soundtrack from the movie, which probably mostly used snippets.  It should be judged as a Coltrane session not a movie soundtrack.

Respectfully, that is not how film score/soundtrack albums work.  I recognize that you may not listen to many film score albums, but some of us do. 

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4 hours ago, JSngry said:

"Patterns" is great, Ed Begley Sr.'s best moment (that I know about, anyway).

But he ain't no Hank Patterson, although also vice-versa.

There's only one Hank Patterson/Farmer Fred Ziffel!

3 hours ago, mjzee said:

Very cool!  My locale is stuck instead with Blobfest (which I don't partake of, though it would probably be fun).

https://thecolonialtheatre.com/programs-categories/blobfest/

Image result for blobfest

3 hours ago, duaneiac said:

It's surprising sometimes what speaks to us individually.  One of the most indelible memories of TV viewing I have from a kid is watching an episode of Night Gallery which included Rod Serling's "They're Tearing Down Tim Riley's Bar".  I don't know why this particular story so captured my imagination as an 11 or 12 year old kid.  It has no real supernatural or horror elements to it.  It's not suspenseful or action-packed.  It's just about an old guy (well, he was old to me as a kid, but then every one over 30 seemed really old then) realizing time has passed him by and he is caught between living in the present, full of its ever diminishing prospects, and living in the happier memories of his past.  William Windom gave an unforgettable performance and Rod Serling wrote a beautiful script about people one might actually know, not stock characters.  This story grabbed me as kid even though I could not fully understand it.  Now, some 47 years later, it makes a lot more sense and it still holds up as outstanding TV.

"They're Tearing Down Tim Riley's Bar" can be viewed here:(albeit image reversed and slightly slowed down)

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5g5gbp

 

I look forward to watching this, thanks.  Interestingly, Serling went the "Twilight Zone" supernatural route at least in part to get around the network censorship he was facing.  The supernatural stuff was never the real point of the Twilight Zone, morality and redemption were.  He hated Night Gallery overali, it was not his vision, he was just a hired hand - I was not aware he had written any scripts for it, and am excited to watch this.

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4 hours ago, felser said:

I look forward to watching this, thanks.  Interestingly, Serling went the "Twilight Zone" supernatural route at least in part to get around the network censorship he was facing.  The supernatural stuff was never the real point of the Twilight Zone, morality and redemption were.  He hated Night Gallery overali, it was not his vision, he was just a hired hand - I was not aware he had written any scripts for it, and am excited to watch this.

I know Rod Serling was unhappy with Night Gallery, especially as the seasons went on and the show's producer kept taking it more in the direction of what Tales From The Crypt would later become.  Still, Mr. Serling wrote several segments for the series each season..  In addition to the "Tim Riley's" episode there was "Midnight Never Ends", a very haunting tale that I don't want to say too much about for risk of spoiling it.  It's another show that really captured my imagination as a kid.  Then there is "The Messiah On Mott Street", a "Christmas" story of sorts which has in addition to Mr. Serling's wonderful script, a powerful performance by the one and only Edward G. Robinson.  He was a great actor with incredibly expressive eyes and he gave the performance of his career in this episode.  There was also "Green Fingers", a creepy little tale that scared the beejeezus out of me as a kid.  It starred Elsa Lanchester.  (This show had an amazing array of great actors on it, I think especially for the scripts Mr. Serling himself wrote.)

I found a script to "Tim Riley's" online here.  This little bit of writing (spoken by the secretary of William Windom's character after he has just been dismissed by his employer on the occasion of his 25th anniversary with the company) seems to be personal cri de coeur for Mr. Serling:

In exchange for twenty-five pretty good years, you've given him the boot and the back of your hand.  Now he's alone and tired and a little frightened.  Maybe the least you could have given him would have been a gold watch.  That wouldn't have been bad.  But just a. . . a word . . . a gentle word would have been better.  Just a reminder to him that he's not obsolete.  He's not unloved.  He's not a relic to be carted off to the dump.  Now he's chasing ghosts . . .  when all he really needed was that one word to tell him he had worth.  That much you could have given him.

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It is clear to me what happened with the tapes for this session. Rudy would have recorded it on a stereo tape at 15 ips, and made a second tape (probably at 7.5 ips) in mono to be heard at home, as with the material issued in 2018. It could have been made in stereo, though. I had a Tandberg deck that took narrow tapes, but it did run at 15 ips, and it was stereo (four tracks on the tape, and bi-directional).

Then, the stereo tape was discarded when all the Impulse session reels were tossed out in the mid 70s.

Anyway, the sample track sounds great, as does the "new" music issued last year. 1964 Trane is prime material. I no longer play the screeching stuff recorded after McCoy and Elvin left.

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14 hours ago, duaneiac said:

It's surprising sometimes what speaks to us individually.  One of the most indelible memories of TV viewing I have from a kid is watching an episode of Night Gallery which included Rod Serling's "They're Tearing Down Tim Riley's Bar".  I don't know why this particular story so captured my imagination as an 11 or 12 year old kid.  It has no real supernatural or horror elements to it.  It's not suspenseful or action-packed.  It's just about an old guy (well, he was old to me as a kid, but then every one over 30 seemed really old then) realizing time has passed him by and he is caught between living in the present, full of its ever diminishing prospects, and living in the happier memories of his past.  William Windom gave an unforgettable performance and Rod Serling wrote a beautiful script about people one might actually know, not stock characters.  This story grabbed me as kid even though I could not fully understand it.  Now, some 47 years later, it makes a lot more sense and it still holds up as outstanding TV.

"They're Tearing Down Tim Riley's Bar" can be viewed here:(albeit image reversed and slightly slowed down)

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5g5gbp

 

I watched Night Gallery when it aired and somehow managed to miss that episode, which I recall was nominated for an Emmy. 

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7 hours ago, duaneiac said:

I know Rod Serling was unhappy with Night Gallery, especially as the seasons went on and the show's producer kept taking it more in the direction of what Tales From The Crypt would later become.  Still, Mr. Serling wrote several segments for the series each season..  In addition to the "Tim Riley's" episode there was "Midnight Never Ends", a very haunting tale that I don't want to say too much about for risk of spoiling it.  It's another show that really captured my imagination as a kid.  Then there is "The Messiah On Mott Street", a "Christmas" story of sorts which has in addition to Mr. Serling's wonderful script, a powerful performance by the one and only Edward G. Robinson.  He was a great actor with incredibly expressive eyes and he gave the performance of his career in this episode.  There was also "Green Fingers", a creepy little tale that scared the beejeezus out of me as a kid.  It starred Elsa Lanchester.  (This show had an amazing array of great actors on it, I think especially for the scripts Mr. Serling himself wrote.)

I found a script to "Tim Riley's" online here.  This little bit of writing (spoken by the secretary of William Windom's character after he has just been dismissed by his employer on the occasion of his 25th anniversary with the company) seems to be personal cri de coeur for Mr. Serling:

In exchange for twenty-five pretty good years, you've given him the boot and the back of your hand.  Now he's alone and tired and a little frightened.  Maybe the least you could have given him would have been a gold watch.  That wouldn't have been bad.  But just a. . . a word . . . a gentle word would have been better.  Just a reminder to him that he's not obsolete.  He's not unloved.  He's not a relic to be carted off to the dump.  Now he's chasing ghosts . . .  when all he really needed was that one word to tell him he had worth.  That much you could have given him.

Really appreciate your thoughts and the leads, thanks so much!

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I saw a release date of September 20 for Germany.

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I ordered a copy of the SHM-CD from CD Japan. One of their 'initially supplied quantity', so at least it will ship 27 September at the latest.

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Me too.

Just noticed it's on amazon.com for a 27th September release.

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19 hours ago, JSngry said:

"Patterns" is great, Ed Begley Sr.'s best moment (that I know about, anyway).

But he ain't no Hank Patterson, although also vice-versa.

I remember seeing Patterns when it was first broadcast.  I was surprised when Serling became known for Sci-Fi.  BTW he also wrote the script for Assault on a Queen which stars Frank Sinatra and has a score (or at least some of the score) by Ellington.  Unfortunately the film is not very good. 

5 hours ago, Shrdlu said:

It is clear to me what happened with the tapes for this session. Rudy would have recorded it on a stereo tape at 15 ips, and made a second tape (probably at 7.5 ips) in mono to be heard at home, as with the material issued in 2018. It could have been made in stereo, though. I had a Tandberg deck that took narrow tapes, but it did run at 15 ips, and it was stereo (four tracks on the tape, and bi-directional).

Then, the stereo tape was discarded when all the Impulse session reels were tossed out in the mid 70s.

Anyway, the sample track sounds great, as does the "new" music issued last year. 1964 Trane is prime material. I no longer play the screeching stuff recorded after McCoy and Elvin left.

They wouldn't need a stereo tape for a film in 1964 so they may not have made one. 

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1 minute ago, erwbol said:

I'm glad it's not.

I'm glad that you are glad.  I don't need another album or CD with a boring photo of the artist.  

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Posted (edited)

20 hours ago, sidewinder said:

Cover photo looks to be from the same session as this one..

R-5262024-1449570544-3472.jpeg.jpg

 

5 minutes ago, Teasing the Korean said:

I'm glad that you are glad.  I don't need another album or CD with a boring photo of the artist.  

I think I like it better than the one from The Stardust Session that Sidewinder says is from the same shoot. The largest size JPG file looks very good. I'm sorry to hear you won't be getting Blue World.

Edited by erwbol

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Speaking of the album cover, I have a pet peeve:The word "blue" is printed with red letters.

The uniform of the Ottawa Redblacks football team spells out "red" in red letters, but "blacks" in white letters.

Would "counter-intuitive" be the correct term for this?  Anyway, there oughta be a law.

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