David Ayers

Artificial Vinyl scarcity

49 posts in this topic

28 minutes ago, gmonahan said:

The only thing I miss about vinyl are the larger format covers with easier-to-read liners, and a good pair of reader glasses takes care of THAT problem! For me, vinyl will always be about scratches, pops, and clicks that I have to try to ignore. *Modern* cds are, to me, so obviously superior in sound that I find this recent fixation on vinyl to be nothing more than hipster nonsense.

 

 

 

gregmo

Dang, YES!

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Has anybody done a factual analysis of environmental impact/carbon footprint of Vinyl vs CD vs download? Not packaging, just core product.

If you're old enough, you can remember when OPEC got blamed for jacking up the quality of vinyl supply and all that.

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I find the vinyl resurgence hilarious. First the industry convinced us to re-purchase all of our favorite records on CD, then as digital downloads, and now they're selling them back to us as records again. It's a neverending cycle.

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21 minutes ago, Captain Howdy said:

I find the vinyl resurgence hilarious. First the industry convinced us to re-purchase all of our favorite records on CD, then as digital downloads, and now they're selling them back to us as records again. It's a neverending cycle.

The term “industry” is all encompassing and broad. I don’t claim to know the answer but isn’t it small companies making the records. I don’t believe the majors are making vinyl in a significant manner. 

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30 minutes ago, Captain Howdy said:

I find the vinyl resurgence hilarious. First the industry convinced us to re-purchase all of our favorite records on CD, then as digital downloads, and now they're selling them back to us as records again. It's a neverending cycle.

I gave up vinyl a long time ago and haven't kept up with events, but I get the strong impression the "vinyl resurgence" is very much demand-driven, independent of the "music industry". In my neck of the woods, vinyl appears to be a highly trendy hipster thing, and vinyl dealers are busy. No disrespect to longtime LP loyalists.

Edited by T.D.

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"Streaming is bringing in 75 percent of the US recording industry's revenue."

I wonder if streaming has something to do with the desire to own vinyl. Streaming music is a completely different paradigm from the one we grew up with. We bought a record, probably without having heard anything on it except maybe one or two singles, and then we owned it, for better or worse, forever. If you were poor like me you listened to that record over and over even if you didn't like it that much, just because you didn't own a lot of records. Today you subscribe to a streaming service and you've got instant access to everything ever recorded. For this generation it's probably more like watching TV: you listen to an artist, maybe binge all his albums, then move on to the next thing. Maybe for this generation vinyl is an anchor in the vast ephemeral sea of streaming.

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9 hours ago, sidewinder said:

I’ll take either - but as my best source component is the turntable/arm/cart/phono stage  the preference is always going to be vinyl. As I get lazier in my old age though regarding changing the sides I’m playing more CDs though. Having said that. a well set up deck spinning a choice vinyl platter is a thing of joy!

 

I agree with Bob here.  Twenty-five years ago, I visited a retail shop that sold Linn turntables.  Their sales pitch was "garbage in, garbage out."  I came away believing that good speakers cannot overcome the mediocre signal of a crummy turntable.

What I have liked about CDs from the start is that they don't wear out because of use.

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2 hours ago, GA Russell said:

I agree with Bob here.  Twenty-five years ago, I visited a retail shop that sold Linn turntables.  Their sales pitch was "garbage in, garbage out."  I came away believing that good speakers cannot overcome the mediocre signal of a crummy turntable.

What I have liked about CDs from the start is that they don't wear out because of use.

Having good speakers also applies to playing CDs too. I purchased a very good system in 2001 (Lon gave me advice on what to purchase) from a stereo store in Summit, NJ. I also purchased a good but entry level turntable because the owner wasn't sure I'd  use it a lot. He was right, I didn't.  I've used the turntable sporadically. I went back there today because I hadn't changed the cartridge since I bought it and decided I wanted to play more vinyl. He told me to bring it in and he'd change it since it's a bit tricky. I guess the point is that the buying experience you have can make all the difference. 

Edited by Brad

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6 hours ago, GA Russell said:

I agree with Bob here.  Twenty-five years ago, I visited a retail shop that sold Linn turntables.  Their sales pitch was "garbage in, garbage out."  I came away believing that good speakers cannot overcome the mediocre signal of a crummy turntable.

What I have liked about CDs from the start is that they don't wear out because of use.

With Linn turntables it is critical that they are carefully set up and regularly serviced. Once this is done though, they are pretty well faff-free. Upgraded bearings/plinth/power supply give major improvements in what they are capable of. Tightening up mechanical tolerances, speed variation and vibration stability.

What often amazes me is that 50 year old plastylites which look as though they have seen active war service at Monte Cassino can play back extremely well. Defies physics really ! 

Edited by sidewinder

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Too me, its very much the same as with Hutchfan. I buy vinyl because its cheaper or there isn’t a cd version. I buy a cd when there ain’t a vinyl version or because the vinyl edition is way to expensive.

I also agree with Erwbol: buying vinyl these days is irrational. But come on: buying cd’s is too. Streaming is more practical, way less expensive, you’re collection is supersize in one click and so on...

But to me listening to music is not about being rational, it’s feeling and emotion. And playing/buying a cd gives me a thousand times better feeling than streaming on my IPhone. And playing vinyl gives me a better feeling than playing a cd. Man I love the smell of an old record in the morning. There’s nothing better than putting on the record and read some liner notes and have a coffee. Part from that: a big part of all the fun is the endless search for that one cd/record. Or exploring something new by buying a record you don’t know but surprises you as it is freaking awesome.

Maybe I’m an old fashioned or sentimental bastard. A young guy with an old soul but I’m gonna keep buying those cd’s and vinyl. 

And of course no: I ain’t paying no 40 euros for a ‘Tone Poet’ record. Unfortunate vinyl is hip, and hip means unreasonable prices...

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20 hours ago, Daniel A said:

Incidentally, I compared various releases of the Corea album, and the original LP still sounds best. 🙂 But that is an exception rather than the rule. 

That is a superb album. The U.S. CD of it (billed as having "Atlantic Original Sound") is awful. Avoid. The Japanese CD is good, and makes the music come alive. I never had the LP, but the Atlantic studio had bad sound - if only Trane's 1959-1960 recordings had been recorded by Rudy.

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9 hours ago, GA Russell said:

I agree with Bob here.  Twenty-five years ago, I visited a retail shop that sold Linn turntables.  Their sales pitch was "garbage in, garbage out."  I came away believing that good speakers cannot overcome the mediocre signal of a crummy turntable.

I agree with "garbage in, garbage out." My experience though is that people often upgrade their amps to something expensive and fancy, keeping their shitty speakers, invite you over to have a listen, turn to you and grin saying something along the lines of "sounds great, right?"

The advise I was given is if you have a fixed budget of say €2000 for a stereo system, is to spend over 50% of that money on speakers. I believe the figure I was given was 70%, but I can't be sure. Anyway, it's my experience that this is correct. Just make sure you buy a quality budget amp & CD player, like the best NAD or Marantz available for that money (possibly a discounted but new slightly older model). Don't get carried too away with cables.

 

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2 hours ago, erwbol said:

I agree with "garbage in, garbage out." My experience though is that people often upgrade their amps to something expensive and fancy, keeping their shitty speakers, invite you over to have a listen, turn to you and grin saying something along the lines of "sounds great, right?"

The advise I was given is if you have a fixed budget of say €2000 for a stereo system, is to spend over 50% of that money on speakers. I believe the figure I was given was 70%, but I can't be sure. Anyway, it's my experience that this is correct. Just make sure you buy a quality budget amp & CD player, like the best NAD or Marantz available for that money (possibly a discounted but new slightly older model). Don't get carried too away with cables.

 

Yes. Basic Marantz is fine. Speakers. 

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I think hifi is a system, like a car, that includes the room where it sounds. Consider one element alone world be like consider only engine or brakes or dumper to judge a car. Testing a single element is okay but it will not tell you exactly how it will sounds in your room hooked with your amp, speakers,etc. likewise the results of an engine on test bench will not tell you how it will works a car drives by you on a  common road. I am enough lucky to test gears in my system and often results surprised me.

 

Edited by porcy62

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Exactly - and by improving one component in the link you can free up improvements in the rest of the source-to-speaker link that were previously bottlenecked. Recent improvements in a power amp have shown that quite dramatically. The system context is everything.

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I plan to upgrade my current amp & CD player eventually. My speakers are properly placed and will remain in any upgraded system. I like the acoustics of my current room. My old speakers were with me through several changes of address, and I can attest to the difference a change of living room and/or positioning can make for the same equipment.

Edited by erwbol

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I have floor standing Vandersteens and am very happy with them. 

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I think I was victim of a misconception for many years: upgrading means bigger and fuller  range speakers, most powerful amps, etc. in the years I understood that what iI am looking for is the Pleasure of listening without fatigue not the “truth“ of sound 

Edited by porcy62

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About the vinyl I think that isn’t correct to put the issue as rational or irrational, since music isn’t necessary to survive like food, tough board members and myself think the opposite. “Practical “ would be a slightly better definition. Let consider that music lovers think music is necessary to survive like food which is the most practical or cheapest way to get it? Nevertheless lots of people drive 20 miles to eat in a good restaurant and spend money that could have been spare buying proteins and vitamins as food just around the corner in the grocery store. I didn’t see any difference with people who love hunting vinyl on records shops. You may have your food as cd vinyl or streaming is just a matter of taste and pleasure.

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1 hour ago, porcy62 said:

I think hifi is a system, like a car, that includes the room where it sounds. Consider one element alone world be like consider only engine or brakes or dumper to judge a car.

Porcy, what's a dumper?

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Concerning new vinyl releases, I can’t bring myself to spend $18-$40 or more on a new release when it is likely to also be available used as a cd soon enough. If someone is releasing something as vinyl only, for that kind of scratch, I can do without it. Particularly when I can pick up used records in great shape most often for $4-$12 or so at my preferred shop in Providence. Fact is I’ve got more records and cds than I can get to anyway and my collection is not exceptional, around here I am just another guy.

I started buying records in the ‘70’s and I’ll still grab one here and there if I see something that strikes my fancy but nowadays I am buying ridiculously devalued cd’s when I see something of interest (the latest cd I bought was $.50 at a library earlier this week). I still play records but play cd’s a lot more. I’m lucky to have fallen in with a group of people who share the music and gear fascination and we get together periodically, share a libation, and let the world slow down enough to enjoy some tunes.

I don’t begrudge buyers or sellers of new vinyl issues, it’s just not for me. As far as playback, Porcy’s comment hits home with me the most, I want non-fatiguing as the most important virtue in my system.

 

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2 minutes ago, GA Russell said:

Porcy, what's a dumper?

suspensions? Just found on google dictionary. Automotive 

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1 hour ago, porcy62 said:
1 hour ago, GA Russell said:

Porcy, what's a dumper?

suspensions? Just found on google dictionary. Automotive 

Thanks.  Nothing came up for me.

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